Carl Beck

I believe the salesman said that car sold for $128K. One could have bought it in 93 for about 28K. FWIW, Carl B.

Had a chance to go look at this 240Z today. Overall impression - looks like the previous owner found a pretty straight, solid 71 with about 75K miles. It was Yellow.. and the PO didn't like that much so... Color change to a dark green that is a few shades off the Datsun Dark Green of 1970/71. It is a shame that the Dealer "detailed" the undercarriage - spraying black paint all over everything certainly hurt the sale of the car. Nonetheless the floorboards and frame rails appear to be far better than average, but not perfect either. I'd guess that before the black undercoating there may have been some typical rust in the seams of the frame rails, perhaps a spot at the rear... but nothing that could not have been easily addressed without major metal work. The engine was amazing.... original matching numbers... it was one of the quietest engines at idle that I've heard in a long time. Took it out for a spin, pulled strong to 6500 RPM in 1, 2, 3.... no noise from the rear end. Drove straight... Shift lever typical monkey motion, needed new bushings. Clutch needs adjustment as it engaged right off the floor. No choke in the 4bl carb - but started right up, and after a few minutes of running, seems to smooth out and run fine. On the one hand it is a shame that this car wasn't treated to a stock "refresh" or even a restoration when it was in its original form ... on the other hand it will be a good weekend driver, or hobby car for someone at an affordable price. I'm sure the PO spent a ton of money making it "his"... even if it's not what most of us would have done. Noted in passing: Right rear bumper section - old, rust (but it looks like the center an left side are new) Half Dash cover Paint job and body work are acceptable for a driver.. Left headlight bucket is steel Original Hatch Lid... was amazingly rust free.. Floor boards were "blacked out" but looked pretty solid and unmolested. Carpet was not original, but it was a fairly high quality cut pile... and fit well All weatherstips/seals seem to be in very good condition... doors and hatch seem original Tail Light chrome was near perfect Threshold below the deck lid was in good shape - looks like the left side may have been worked on when the car was repainted.. but nothing bubbling up anywhere.. I'd guess the doglegs were replaced as well. What's it worth East of the Mississippi? It'll sell for between $10K and $14K... just depends on how long some potential buyer has been looking, and to whom a grand one way or the other won't matter much.. Serious buyers get tired of looking at junk after a time, then when a reasonable car comes along they will pay reasonable prices, usually far higher than they thought they would need too. This "Dealer" had about 50 Classic Cars there- many very nice indeed. They do not have an open showroom, cars are shown by appointment only to retail customers, mostly they hit the national auctions with the cars... Overall, while their write-up may have been a little flowery... it was for the most part accurate for Muscle Car guys trying to describe a Japanese Sports Car... one mechanic there seemed to have a pretty good grasp of the 240-Z's... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I believe the seller is very confused as to who sets the market for these cars. He is also sadly confused as to exactly what market his Z would sell into. In broad terms: There is a Collector Market There is an Enthusiasts Market There is a Restorer's Market There is a Parts Market It is true that a car is original only once. What this seller seems to miss is the fact that his car having been used for 39K miles - is no longer "original" in the eyes of the Collector. It's a used car to them and as everyone has pointed out - it has lots and lots of flaws that no Collector would accept. True Collectors will pay the highest prices, but only for real #1 or #2 condition cars. These 240-Z's are selling for between $20K at the bargain end and $35K at the top end. The car we are discussing is at best a #3 condition car as it sits now. It is true that a car is original only once. What the seller fails to understand, is that real enthusiasts would love this car for being so well cared for, so stock, so unmolested etc., but they also know that lots of cars like this can still be found in the $12K to $14K range. They know the values of the cars in the Enthusiast's Market... and sometimes they will pay a few grand over the current market to get a car they really love... The seller is silly to expect Enthusiasts to pay more..... Look at Arne's Z with 65K miles for something less than $6K (was it?).. vs the current offering with 40K miles at $20K.... just isn't that much difference. It is true that a car is original only once. Restorers want as original as possible, but they aren't willing to pay anywhere near as much as the Enthusiasts, because the overall condition of the cars they buy are far below the cars the Enthusiasts buy. A restorer is going to strip the car to a bare body shell and start over - so faded paint won't matter, the car doesn't have to be in top road worthy condition, scratches, minor dings and cosmetic flaws won't matter - because everything is going to be refreshed or restored anyway. The car under discussion is way to nice and way to expensive to appeal to the restorers. The 71 here in St. Petersburg with less than 40K original miles and really all stock and original - is the perfect car for a serious restorer - even at $6K. When we are talking about an "original" car being worth more than a correctly restored car - keep in mind that the 240-Z under discussion, as well as all of them like it - are really no longer "original".. time and use have destroyed their originality. When you look under the hood of this car, do you see bright shinny Cad Plated parts.. as original? Or do you see parts that the Cad plating has sacrificed itself protecting, and are now dull silver with some corrosion? Do you see all the braided hoses looking like new - or most of the original braided hoses present but looking a little worse for wear? Sorry but the car under discussion is no where close to "original" in the eyes of any Collector.. its just another low mileage used car. In the eyes of the Enthusiasts, it's a great example of a mostly original 240-Z, but the Enthusiasts definition of "original" carries a far different meaning than that of the Collector. The seller had it sold for $20K - and if it had been exactly as originally described it would most likely have sold - - but it wasn't. Note the seller even admits that he had to detail it, even the undercarriage before offering it again on the market... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bart: HLS30 163693 would have had a Date of Manufacture of 06/73. So it would have been a 1973 Model Year 240Z. It would most likely have had an original engine serial number in the range of L24-175xxx to L24-182xxx So it would have been originally equipped with: - the Flat Top emissions carb.'s - 2.5 mph bumpers - steel head light nacelles - 3 speed intermittent windshield wipers - lighted heater/vent controls in addition to the standard equipment found on the 72 Model Year 240-Z's.

Hi Mark: Are you coming down for the Amelia Island Concours in March? Peter and Gayle will be there so you would have an opportunity to meet them. I'll be meeting them there with the BRE Baja Z if all goes well. I understand that John will be there with the BRE #46 510 as well. http://www.ameliaconcours.org/ FWIW, Carl B.

72K miles on my Blue 72 (original owner) 74K miles on my White 72 (second owner it had about 62K when I bought it) 3,249 miles on my 73 240-Z - of course a little over 2000 miles were from the Baja... and road courses in California... FWIW, Carl B.

Will, you don't need a NOS set of taillights to use as the model - just a very good set. You do need a lot of money to get reproduction parts made.... So sell me the NOS set and get started on all the reproduction parts... Besides, you wouldn't want to risk destroying an NOS set??? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike: Now THAT's SERVICE. Glad to hear you had the opportunity and enjoyed the visit. You are going to post a picture or two from lunch.. aren't you? FWIW, Carl

Hi Bart: Once we know exactly what car you have {after you supply the VIN}- we can recommend the specific Factory Service Manual you will need. The Nissan/Datsun Factory Service Manuals are the best ones to own. You might have to watch E-Bay to get one today, or perhaps one of the members here will have a spare that they would sell. Secondly - you need to take clear pictures of the parts for the car, that you received with the car, in boxes. That way we can tell you if any major parts are missing. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bart: On the Internet - go to amazon.com and order this book. It is about $16.50 USD plus shipping. See: http://www.amazon.com/How-Restore-Your-Datsun-Z-Car/dp/1931128022/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200788528&sr=1-1 You might also want to buy "How to Rebuld Your Nissan/Datsun OHC Engine. http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilt-Your-Nissan-Datsun-Engine/dp/1931128030/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b FWIW Carl B.

Hi Bart: You need to tell us what the Vehicle Identification Number {VIN} is for your Z. See picture below. Then we can tell you what model year it is, and aprox. when it was built. If you send us the engine serial number - we might be able to tell you aprox. when it was built as well. The engine serial number is stamped on two small pads cast into the block, right below the #5 and #6 Spark Plugs. It will begin with L24, or L26 or L28 stamped into the first pad - and the second pad will have the serial number. FWIW, Carl B.

When I get a chance, I'll go look at it, and photographic it... I have not seen it here in Clearwater before... Carl B.

Just FYI - they aren't really "Black Pearl Mirrors"... unless they came on a Black Pearl - ... They are Datsun Racing Mirrors, and back in 1972 they were $14.95 for the set!! So a gallon of gas was $0.32 per gallon and today it's $3.25. A pack of butts was $0.30 and today they are $3.25.... So in todays devalued dollars $149.50 is about right. Then you have to add the cost of storage and handling for 36 years.... and even $250.00 per set doesn't seem like much for such a rare and collectible item. FWIW, Carl B.

Update - several people ask me how many of these original 37 year old Datsun Posters were found in the "stack". Turns out that there are less than 80, and they will have a certificate of authenticity affixed to the back by BRE, FWIW, Carl B.

To commemorate the BRE 510 winning the 1971 2.5 Trans-Am championship, Datsun had 23"x32" Posters made up. From The BRE2.net Web Sight: "In going through our archives we found some original posters Datsun had made in 1971 to commemorate the BRE 510 winning the 2.5 TransAm Champtionship that year. Each will be signed by Peter and sold on a first come first served basis. When they are gone... they will be gone. They have been stored flat all these years and are in "like new" condition." $95.00 plus S&H See: http://bre2.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=B&Category_Code=funstuff FWIW, Carl B.

I'm not certain, but I do not believe that the 78's had webbing - rather second quarter 72 production switched to spring steel supports.

Yes - that sounds reasonable. As long as the new seat upholstery is the same style as the OEM seats. FWIW, Carl B.

It might not have been, or might not be the windshield seal that is leaking. If you get a rust hole in the cowl area, it can drip water from under the dash. The other thing that happens is the rubber/plastic tubes that carry water from the cowl area, to the outside of the firewall, behind the front fenders - - cracks with age and leaks... FWIW, Carl B.

That 73 is well worth going to look at - could be a real "find" in that part of the country. FWIW, Carl B.

Seriously folks... just ask yourself; "who the hell am I to be telling others what they should or should not say, let alone how to say it?". I'm sick and tired of the "PC" police, feel free to speak for yourself and in your own way. If I want a sermon I'll go to church. If you want to give one you know where I'll tell you to go. Carl B.

Yes - the 'brown" in 72/73 was a Metallic color. It was quite good looking when new... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: OK - I'll bit. What would indicate that is not the original engine??? Carl B.

What was "original" on an S30 depends on what model and year, as well as what color you are asking about. Most likely the reason Gary ask you what Color the car is. S30 = 69 though 78 - - 240/260/280Z here in the US. For the 69/70 Datsun 240-Z's the non metallic colors were Amino Alkyd Enamel, but the Metallic Silver 70-73 was Acrylic Enamel with a clear coat. Amino Alkyd Enamel = enamel paint comprised of amino resins and alkyd resins - it is thinned with enamel reducers, petroleum reducers. Film hardened by oxidation, after some solvent evaporation. (this was NOT a water based paint). FWIW, Carl B.

The Z Car Home Page http://ZHome.com SEE: http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/69-83TrannyShifterDrawing.jpg No - there were both Type A and Type B Competition boxes. Both had the steel synchro's. The Type B tranny's came as either direct drive or over drive. FWIW, Carl B.

Yes - If the description is true - it would be a very good buy...