Carl Beck

This is an all too perfect example of "what not to do". One of two things should have happened to a 240-Z like this one was - as it was shown in it's original condition (before being turned into a total mess). 1) it should have been simply "cleaned", made drive'able and preserved... then sold later for a tidy profit. 2) it should have received a complete "refresh" or "restoration"... Looking at the receipts for parts and services - it is sad to see anyone taken such advantage of, but on the other hand - a fool and his money are soon parted... As for the trustworthy dealer that finished an unfinished project - his glowing description "may" be believed by him. He might be perfectly honest about his view of the car - but we all know there is a very high probability that he is just the second fool in this sad story. So much money spent in the wrong order and on the wrong things.. What a shame that a Series 1 example, with really good floorboards and frame rails was used for the basis of such shoddy work.... More sad is the fact that now that so much money has been spent on the car - no one will be able to buy it at low enough price, to justify completely undoing the damage done and then refreshing the car properly. A pig with lipstick ? More like turning a potential silk purse - into a very expensive sow's ear. On the other hand it does make the 71 here in St. Pete look like a super bargain at $6K... FWIW, Carl B.

wasn't at all worried about corruption... just thought we'd get more comments/participation if everyone saw a new thread about a Series I on e-bay... most people have stopped looking here.. regards, Carl B.

See: Skyline at Fuji http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29172 Carl B.

Hi Ron: You should start a new thread - with a Series I title... so more people will see it... I don't know which car the last two Posts were related too...???? regards, Carl

Just in case this hasn't been Posted http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987&q=Hakasuka+GTR FWIW, Carl B.

Chris - what are you doing up at 3:00AM? Just getting in? Carl

If I lived in Texas, I'd look for a solid body with as little rust damage as possible. The car you describe must have been flooded in salt water - or driven to Texas from Ohio... If the floorpans and frame rails are rusted through - and the fuel/brake lines are rusted through - you can bet the rest of the body will soon follow... As for "is it worth it"... that's up to you - I'd recommend putting the same amount of work and money into a better car to start with. As an example of a 240-Z that has had reasonable care - here's a 71 that has all but perfect floors, frame rails ... they don't ALL rust like the 260Z you describe. http://zhome.com/Katy71Z/Katy71OrangeZ.htm FWIW, Carl B.

HLS30 00300 has a build date of 2/70. By 02/70 the engine serial numbers were running in the 048xx range. Engine serial number L24-04802 is in HLS30 02255. Then Engine number L24-2476 is in HLS30 2545 with a build date of 03/70. So yes - during the first three or four months - things got mixed up pretty wildly. Recall that they had a problem with the early engine crankshafts. - so some of the very early engines, could have been held and rebuilt with the newer crankshafts... then put in later cars. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi HxC240z: I do not know what a "long nose" r200 is. Can you provide the exact model and year car it was found in? The 300ZX's used the R200 - but with different flanges/yokes - not something that is a direct bolt-in, but can be done with enough money and a good rear end shop. See: http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/R200.htm FWIW, Carl B.

Read This http://zhome.com/CarDriverAero/CDAero74.htm FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Joe: Unless you happen to have family money.. and lots of it... starting a career in road racing really isn't realistic. When these guys say "big money" and/or I say "lots of money".... you can think $100,000.00 to play with, if you want to build a car from scratch, learn to drive it, and get it to/from events. You can also figure you'll really need to spend several thousand on drivers training schools before anyone would let you on a track for competition. If on the other hand you are serous about wanting to drive competitively for a profession - at 20 years of age you are already a decade behind the competition. Looking at the vast majority of professional drivers that ever accomplish any level of success - they started racing motorcycles and/or go-carts before they were 10. If your brother and you want to build it your self - have some fun on a budget of less than $25K a year..I'd suggest that you look into local Stock Car racing as a starting point. Just my perspective... Carl B.

You have a gas tank on your car now. It's a metal container, with baffles, as well as fuel pick-up tube and most likely a fuel return tube. A place for a fuel level gauge is common as well. Pretty much standard fair for automobiles. As the term "Fuel Cell" is applied to competition cars - there are a number of different configurations and standards set by the various competition sanctioning bodies (NHRA, FIA, etc). The Fuel Cell "container" can be made of metal or plastics. The container (aka can) can be lined with a rubber bladder or not. It is always filled with Safety Foam. Various filler necks with different styles of venting can be used, and they usually have roll over safety flaps or balls, that close off the vents or fill necks when necessary. Depending on the style of racing, the fuel pickup's are variously housed in anti-surge structures inside the fuel cell. The Safety Foam is there to fill the voids, or empty space in the can - so that fuel vapors do not have a place to form, It's the vapors that are easy to ignite and therefore explosive. It used, the rubber bladder is there to contain the fuel in case the can is compromised. The least expensive Fuel Cell are manufactured to various Spec.'s in various sizes... If you can use one of them you can save a ton. Having a Fuel Cell custom made can easily run $2,500.00 to $3,500 and they can be just about any shape you want. The fuel pump used is no different than that used with any fuel tank. FWIW, Carl B. In Space Technology - a Fuel Cell directly converts fuel to electrical energy. The dream of course is a Hydrogen Fuel Cell for automotive use... dream on.... It would be quite feasible if we derived at least 90% of our electrical energy from nuclear reactors. In that case the efficiency factors would not matter all that much.

The car was jacked-up to take the pictures... A local "car person" (I do not know who) told the family they were asking too little for the car - and might be sending the message the car wasn't as good as it is. I found this out after I gave them my honest opinion... I said the car was worth $3,500.00, and the all but perfect conditon of the floorboards, Frame Rails, Dash and interior were easily worth another couple grand... ie $5,500.00 here in Florida. Add the cost of shipping one, sight unseen, from California and the time to find a 240Z with less than 50K miles still in the hands of its original owner.. You'd still be looking at more than $5,500.00 by the time it was all said and done. Not cheap by any means, but then it would still cost far less to restore, than starting with the typical $3,500.00 to $4,500.00 example you'll find back East... I think the seller would deal a bit, if someone was standing in front of them with CASH in their hand.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Dan: Because the decklids were installed after the jamb's were painted, and after the inside of the decklid was painted - the screws were not painted. The hinges were bolted in place when the jamb's were painted so the bolts in the hinges were painted at the factory. FWIW, Carl B.

Sorry . . . power went out... and the UPS was screaming.... so had to shut down... I started to say.... Freeze 12 May Be a good alternative - I'd have to take Stephen's word for it, as I have never tried it. I also agree on having/using crimped fittings, if you have a good Hydraulic Hose shop around (they usually handle A/C hoses as well as all high pressure hoses) - they can easily make-up any hoses, with any fittings you need. Stephen - same oil for R12 and/or Freeze 12? FWIW, Carl

Right - for the older style R-12 A/C rubber hoses. The do make rubber hose that is lined, or shielded that will contain the R134a Yes - for the system as you outlined it, I'd stay with R12. Freeze 12 May

...... because the 280Z dash is deeper... Many people have simply used the 280Z dash along with the 280Z evap.. Another option is to use the Vintage Air units inside the car. FWIW, Carl B.

People ask me all the time - "what should I look for when buying a 240-Z to restore?". We all have about the same answers - RUST FREE BODY, original, un-molested, perfect dash... So I thought I'd post this one, for discussion. Just check the floorboards and frame rails... See: http://zhome.com/Katy71Z/Katy71OrangeZ.htm Keep in mind that this one is here in St. Petersburg, Florida... not the West Coast... and the seller is flexible on the "asking" price. FWIW, Carl B.

The big choices I see are between having an electronic trigger for the spark - ie replacing the mechanical points with an electronic trigger vs upgrading to a full High Energy Ignition system. The HEI allows larger spark plug gaps that help fire the air/fuel mixture more evenly and which keeps the plug gap's clean. Spark plug changes become 25K to 50k events rather than 6K items. Over and above that you can go with the various multi-spark units... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi E. Point taken, but just so we don't mislead anyone....Bias-Ply tires were not Stock on the Datsun 240-Z in the US/Canada. I understand that certain models of the JDM Fairlady Z were equipped with them. We are still using Lead/Acid celled batteries... even if the cell is now filled with foam, or the acid contained in a material matrix... It is somewhat amazing that hasn't changed over the past 35 years with our Z's. Or for that matter over the past 100 years... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi E: No - actually it is not. ZCCA is Z Car Cub Association. The Z Car Club of America is a registered trade name, and the Club is no longer functioning (but the owner/operator and news letter publisher is still around - at least he was when he wrote me a few years ago). As originally conceived - the Z Car Club Association was an association of the Officers of Local Z Car Clubs, that got together to share thoughts, ideas and experiences having to do with forming and running a local Z Car Club. That was then expanded to include a group purchase of Club Event Insurance. So that the representatives of the local clubs could get together once a year, and work together - the Annual ZCCA Conventions were started. The Member Clubs to the ZCCA send their representatives to the ZCCA Meetings, and only those representatives have a voice in the conduct of the association. I've lost track of the actual number of dues paying ZCCA Member Clubs... at one time years ago it was something like 34 out of 70 in the US. I think it's important to keep in mind that the original GOAL was to get the local club officers together for self help and encouragement so to speak. The local "HOST Club" played HOST to the ZCCA Representatives. Over the years - somehow the ZCCA Convention seems to have evolved, and in the eyes of the outsiders (people that really don't attend the ZCCA Meetings at the ZCCA Convention) - - - it has become expected to be a National Level Z Meet.... My suggestion for the ZCCA would be to review their actual GOALS related to the Annual Convention. a) the Convention is for the purpose of getting the local club representatives together for a week of intense club management and promotional seminars etc. or the Convention is an open gathering of Z Enthusiasts from across the Nation for an annual Z Love-in. Trying to do both - means making trade-off's between what is desired by the ZCCA representatives for "their" Convention - and what everyone else that shows up desires. There are other alternatives for the Z Enthusiasts to consider as "THE NATIONAL MEET" ... The MotorSports West Coast Nationals.. Several other Annual Events like the Tail-of-the-Dragon that draw huge numbers of participants. So we enthusiasts have some decisions to make as well.... FWIW, Carl B.

Second Answer;; A/C in a 240-Z The 240-Z is a VERY HARD car to air condition. The three major problems I see/encounter are: 1. The Car Is A Greenhouse - huge glass area 2. Very poor air circulation though the long narrow cabin area. The seats and passengers block any real circulation of cool air, though the area with the greatest amount of heat - the rear luggage area. So at best you have only a small amount of cool air blowing in your face.. but no air circulating around your entire body, nor cooling the hottest areas of the cabin. 3. Air leaks...and an all but nonexistence of insulation between the metal body and the interior. In most places there is only a thin "dead air" layer for insulation. All this means that in very hot area's of the US - the original Dealer Installed, aftermarket A/C units are all but worthless. They certainly will NOT cool a hot car interior down, in less than several hours of driving. If you park the car in the shade, start out in the cool of the morning, you might keep the interior cool enough to live - but not when you have 115 degree heat driven by the bright sun beating down on the car (for that matter anything above 90 degrees is too much to overcome with these old systems). The Factory Air in the 280Z's was far better - partly because the 280Z's had better sealing cabins, more heat/sound insulation and far better designed A/C systems to work with. Even then, by todays standards for automotive A/C.. they really aren't what you would expect of a modern A/C system in any car. I used a unit from Vintage Air... a single,self contained combination heater core, A/C evaporator coils and blower motor all in one box (Super Cooler III). It puts out huge volumes of cold air compared to the old dealer installed add on units - and the Vintage Air system will keep the car cool when driving on the road... the problem is, it also dumps huge volumes of hot air from the condenser, directly in front of the radiator... A radiator in the 240-Z that was never intended to support an A/C car in stop and go traffic, in very warm area's. With enough time and money - most of these problems could be overcome... On thing that would help a lot would be a rear evaporator/blower/fan. Something that would get the air circulating though the entire cabin. Or a duct under the center console, that would deliver cool air to the rear cabin area.. The air flow coming out the vents in the dash - gets sucked back into the system under the dash on the passenger's side - so circulation is very limited indeed. Heavy Tinting on all windows helps.. New Seals in the doors, windows, rear deck lid all with proper adjustments - helps Additional insulation in the doors and rear quarters.. helps but so far - nothing adds up to A/C as good as you will find in any modern car.... FWIW, ..... living in Florida... Carl B.

Hi richard1: First Answer: R12 or R134-A really considered by themselves do not matter. Both have to be considered in the overall context of the specific system involved. Compressing a gas at one point, letting it expand and absorb heat at another point, then dissipating that heat at still another.... involves several different components in different ways. Because the molecular size of R12 is larger than that of R-134a each gas requires different design components to be used in the A/C System. For the sake of efficiency, in picking up and dissipating heat... the gas molecules have to be keep in close contact with the metal tubes in the evaporator and condenser. While the difference in molecular size of the two may seem very small...compressed and moving at high speed though the system, the very small differences compound to produce very large differences in results. So systems designed to run 134a have smaller diameter tubes and more of them, than systems designed to use R12. You can run 134a in an R12 system, but you will lose about 20% of the efficiency of the system - -- You can make some of that loss back up, by running higher pressures, moving the gas faster and conducting more air flow over the condenser and evaporator... but at the same time, you'll most likely be trading off system reliability and longevity. Plus having to install larger and/or more powerful fans etc. The rubber A/C hoses that used to contain the R12 molecules, will not do as good a job of containing the 134a.. it will slowly seep out, and in so doing, it will slowly degrade the old hoses as well. Systems designed for 134a have higher quality shielded A/C hoses. Likewise the compression fittings in the old R12 system, that were tight/secure enough to contain the R12, will not do as good a job of containing the 134a. Systems designed to use 134a have O-ringed compression fittings for that reason. Modern A/C systems, that were designed specifically to use 134a are just as effective/efficient as the older R12 systems. If you plan to keep an old R12 system - and you have rebuilt it with new R12 components to avoid leaks... I'd keep it filled with R12. Yes it is more expensive, but then it doesn't take much to charge a system in the first place, and the old R12 systems held their charge for years and years without a problem. On the other hand, if you are going to install a new system - make sure it was specifically designed for 134a. Aftermarket manufactures, and indeed A/C supply places will tell you either gas can be used in their systems. So many years after the change over to 134a, most of the newer system components have indeed been redesigned for 134a... but you still have to be careful when you buy... and yes quality components are more expensive in the 134a systems. The newer compressors (rotary type/style) can be used with either gas, as they all have o-ringed fittings in the first place, and the compressors are fully sealed to contain the necessary pressures. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jim: What can I say?..... I understand your perspective as an event organizer/worker. I simply have a different perspective to express. Respectfully, I believe that you have the focus of your attention and/or concerns placed on the wrong group of people, if the Annual ZCCA Convention is ever to become the event that it would be capable of growing into. I guess it would depend on what the actual "Goal" is. a) to hold a reasonable event year after year at the Annual ZCCA Conventions around the country; or to actually grow the ZCCA's Annual Convention Car Show into the Leading National Level Event for Z Cars that it could become. The number of Z's entered in the annual Car Shows at the conventions "seems" to be stagnating at around 200 cars. Some years more some years less... but over the past 16 years the attendance and entries have not grown consistently larger year after year. That indicates that too many people are not returning year after year, while being joined by ever more new attendees from the local area, or new owners coming into the hobby. By focusing on what is convenient, fun, easy, practical or desired for the people "hosting" the event - - you have lost track of the real "customers". The real customers are the individuals that put tens of thousands of dollars, plus untold hours into their cars, then at great personal effort and expense bring their pride and joy to the convention, and pay to enter a Judged Car Show. You are absolutely correct - given copies of their judging sheets the same day - would allow all the participates time to talk to one another, look at other examples that did not contain the flaws they were dinged with, and yes... so what... they would know ahead of the closing who won at least in the their class - - but they would still have to be at the closing to get the complete story, and receive the honors they are due. It would also give them time to talk to the Judges about how to correct the items they lost points for, or to protest and resolve differences of opinion while everyone is still gathered etc. etc. Here in Florida, for our Government at all levels, we have the "Florida Government In The Sunshine Laws". There is a reason for that and it should not be lost on the ZCCA .... The Judges and Event Organizers, going off in closed sessions, totally up the scores and announcing the results days later, at the very end of the convention, denies the participants any real recourse... Once off by themselves at home, they have no opportunity to talk to one another and compare cars and notes etc. IHMO all of that severely hurts the creditability and objectively of the entire process. If the judging sheets were mailed out a week later, a month later or six months later - it really wouldn't matter that much. The participants would still be home by then... with no one else to talk to, or work with, in their efforts to improve their vehicles for the next years event. Perhaps that is one reason many do not return the following year. I only speak for myself as a spectator .... but I would have liked to have seen the Scoring Sheets posted publicly while the cars were still available to for viewing. That way I could clearly see what area's to focus my attention on while restoring a Classic Datsun 240-Z of my own. Not to mention having the time to talk to the owners of the prize winning examples about how they did it.... No system is perfect and I don't mean to be too critical (although it may seem that way)... just some honest feedback from the peanut gallery. FWIW, Carl B.

BenJammin: You got a much better deal - - - a really "rust free" body alone is worth at least $2,500.00. $500.00 is a steal.. FWIW, Carl B.