Carl Beck

Oh darn - wishful thinking on my part, put my glasses on and it does look like a Ford Capri back there. Carl B.

Hi ZSaint: PIR is in this case _ Portland International Raceway ??? A friend of mine that used to live in Washington State - bought a 1969 Production Year 240-Z, because he thought it would qualify for use in whatever historic series racing club events that were held in that area. Then he found out that the rule that said; ... for Sports Cars produced prior to 1970...... really meant that it was for sports cars "raced" prior to 1970. Seems the local historic racing club was formed by Porsche owners - and they didn't realize any 240-Z's had been produced prior to 1970. No problem, they just changed the interpretation of the rule to preclude the 240-Z's - then later changed the written rules as well.... FWIW, Carl B.

Wow.. a Datsun 610 in the background of the fourth picture!! Haven't seen any of them in years! Great car and still had the IRS.. Carl B.

John: Can you give us an example of what a "not real" carbon fiber hood or hatch would be made of? thanks, Carl B.

Hi Sean: Great trip report and great photos - and I'm really glad you made it to the places you did. I've been though that same route several times. I'm somewhat surprised that Crazy Horse isn't far more complete by now... most of his face was done 20 years ago. When you went through Custer State Park - did any of these guys (see below image) stop you to say hello? I had a picture of a buffalo with his face at my drivers side window, lookin in at me - but I can't find it now. I hope you got to see the heard at the park.... sometimes you have to drive right through them when they are on the road... Amazing how BIG they are.. Glad to hear you make it home safely... FWIW, Carl B.

I'm guessing that you have new braided stainless steel flexible lines - right? Or did you get new stainless steel replacements for the hard lines? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Nissanman (everyone) For others following this thread, I'll add "should" is the operative word in: "The hose end should be held captive by a metal clip allowing...." Perhaps due to age, many of the original metal clips have weakened and will not hold the the flexible hose end captive enough to prevent them from twisting. Perhaps too, the original flexible hoses have been replaced by some aftermarket parts - where the metal hose ends have smaller nuts... In those cases, as xray mentions.. you have to use a proper size wrench on them. "good" is the operative word in xray's comment; "a good 10mm flare nut wrench will take off your brakelines, ...." Believe me when I say that there is a huge difference between my Craftsman and Snap-on flare nut wrenches. After rounding off too many flare nuts - I coughed up the silly high price for the Snap-on tool.... and over the years its been worth every penny. It's not so much a case of the hard lines being expensive or cheap - it's a matter of having ones you can re-use when you need them - without trying to order them and getting them days or weeks later. Worse Case: If the flare nut, even with a good flare nut wrench, still won't come loose without the flare nut wrench slipping... I had a older still, cheap-off brand. flare nut wrench. I cut the end off it - then took the end to the grinder, and removed about half the outside metal. On "impossible" flare nuts, I slip the end of the flare nut tool over the flare nut - then squeeze it down tight on the flare nut with vice-grips. I've saved several flare nuts that way... In any case - the best advice is "Plan Ahead" - and if possible have a new set of hard lines on hand before you start. Hummmm ..... come to think of it, I need to add them to my next parts order... FWIW, Carl B.

Pull the door, glove box and deck lid locks out of the car - and take them to a Lock Smith, along with the key that starts/turns-off the ignition. He can re-key the locks to work with your best key. (then make you a new spare). FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: Yes... I understand that the Bill and Rich will be coming down from Gainesville as well.... Carl B.

Hi Will: That's way to hectic....plan to stay over Saturday night - get some rest and leave Sunday. Far safer trip plan... You'll be too tired to leave right after standing around all day Saturday at the show... Carl B.

Hi Guys: Thanks - I responded via e-mail 2 July 07. dwalklet is going through the all too typical process of dealing with an insurance company's claims adjustor at this point. Usually, it goes something like: - a) the claims adjustor, through companies that offer such services, pulls the State's Sales Tax records for all 70-73 Datsun 240-Z's, to see within the past 12 to 18 months - what sales prices have been reported, such that the proper sales tax can be paid when a new title is requested. Then based on the average sales price reported - he makes an offer to settle the claim. Of course EVERYONE always states the true price they paid to the seller - such that they are allowed to pay the FULL amount of sales tax.. This usually results in values of $750.00 to $1,500.00 being the average "value" of a Datsun 240-Z. So the Claims Adjustor, wanting to please this customer, offers $1,850.00 in cash to total the car out. the owners says - ""wait a minute, I have a clean, low mileage "Classic Car" here - and it's worth $18,000.00 at least."" The Claims Adjustor says; -" OK - prove it Show me some comparable cars that sold for that amount in this market recently." The owner then takes the NADA Value Guide in - and the Claims Adjustor says "we don't take that - it's only a Value Guide, not comparable sales documentation. The next step for the owner is to take all For Sale ad's in to the Claims Adjustor - that support a value of $18K. So he has to find ad.'s for restored or nearly perfect original, 1969 production year 240-Z's - that could be "replacements" for his car.... Or any other Series I cars that sold say on e-bay for $16K to $25K +. One such sale - is listed on another thread (Steve's Orange 71 in Colo that sold for $14K) The problem with e-bay is that if you didn't keep the item number from the auction before it ended, or the URL to begin with - you have a hard time finding sales that have ended in the past. So does anyone have some old URL's or Item Numbers from e-bay that would apply here? Series I cars in #3 or #2 Condition? that sold for something above $14K even? I know many have, but I didn't keep the old listings... remember a #3 car "looks like new" to the average person looking at it... and a #2 car is a real show winner... FWIW, Carl B.

Interesting to have the recreated Shelby Daytona Cobra Coupe, a Z Car and a mid-year Corvette at the show. Peter Brock worked at GM on the design of the 1963 Sting Ray, then went to Shelby America and pinned the Daytona Coupe, then opened BRE Racing... with several other designs between. The original design by Peter Brock: <a href=http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/Brock.htm>Peter Brock and the Shelby Daytona Cobra Coupe</a> The way the re-creation happened <a href=http://www.secondstrike.com/Coupe/Price.htm> The Coupe Design </a> Peter Brock's personal car at Sebring... pictured below. Peter and his wife drove this coupe back out to California after the race at Sebring... FWIW, Carl B.

If unlike 26th Z, you were not lucky enough to have meet Mr. Matso in person so as to have him relate the story to you personally ... Then the story of how the problem of producing the headlight buckets was overcome - is outlined nicely in the book "Project X Challengers - 240-Z" by Akira Yokoyama and available from Amazon.com for around $11.00. See cover and pages below.. Chris - don't you have a drawing from your meeting with Matsuo? For general discussion - yes. If the discussion turns more to the technical side - then it would be better to use more specific terms. FRP - Fiber Reinforced Plastic - - - but the fiber could be stranded or chopped glass fibers, carbon fibers, woven fiberglass mats or woven carbon fiber etc etc I believe the steering wheels used actual wood fibers in the FRP... Fiberglass - a little more limited term - in that it specifies glass fiber. The headlight buckets were most likely chopped fiber glass in an epoxy base. Blow Molded and vacuum bagged. Once the molds are produced, it is a pretty inexpensive way to mass produce complex shapes. The problem passing the MVSS 215 Bumper Standard tests wasn't with the "fiberglass" itself. Fiberglass, pound for pound absorbs and dissipates impact energy better than steel. The Z had a steel front bumper directly in front of the fiberglass headlight bucket - the headlight bucket was supported only by the thin sheet metal of the front fender horn. When that metal fender horn was bent on impact, it took out the headlight. Bolting the steel "U" channel at the top of the steel headlight bucket, to the fender horns - strengthened them and prevented them from bending toward the headlight. For 1973 the Corvette's steel front bumper was eliminated altogether so it could not be pushed back into the headlights. For 1973 being all plastic with reinforcing behind it - it absorbed more of the impact energy, without transferring that energy to the headlight. FWIW, Carl B.

Everything is a trade-off isn't it. If you shoot 35mm film with a good camera, you have the original negative to store. That negative will have a resolution of about 20 million pixels, at 36 to 42 bit depth. 20 years from now, you will still be able to pull the negative out of storage and have super high resolution prints made, or you will be able to scan the negative to recreate a super high resolution digital copy. On the other hand, if you shoot the picture with todays digital camera's - even the medium priced ones in the $5K to $10K range - you will have an image with 10 to 12 million pixels at 14 bit depth. Once you have that lower resolution digital image - you will have to always bring it along, constantly re-saving it in the newer formats and on the newer hardware. In 20 years, you won't have a CD drive, nor a DVD drive...anyone have an 8" floppy drive at this point? - how about 4" floppy drive? Wish I could get my Jaz Drive hooked up, and then get the software drivers updated to run on todays PC's... I had some really neat digital images from 1996.... just neglected to constantly read them into and then re-save them in the current formats, on the current hardware using the new software... If you want or require a long term archive - better stick with film. If you have digital images, don't leave them on older storage technology... Drum Memory Anyone? FWIW, Carl B.

What was "wrong" with the fiberglass headlight buckets, was that they would not meet the US Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (MVSS) related to frontal impact at 10 mph for the 1973 Model Year here in the US. While the MVSS required that the front bumper had to remain in serviceable condition after a 5mph frontal impact, the headlights had to remain in working order after a 10mph impact. So to add impact strength to the front fender horns, the headlight buckets were produced in steel. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: You must have some specific cars and sales figures in mind. Could you report some actual sales figures (gross range will fine) - for the cars your talking about. It would be interesting know what a 69 production year S30 would sell for in Japan. Also, among the car produced later in 1970 what is the top dollar paid for a Z - what Z was it? I'll be back Thursday... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Wayne: If you haven't already done so - I would highly recommend that you bolt a good drivers seat in the old 240-Z before that trip. Ship the stock seat back to Tenn. With a good seat providing the needed support 12 hours behind the wheel at a time becomes a pleasure again. Oh and take your iPod with both talking books and music... Above all stay alert! FWIW, Carl B.

Oh yea gad... it never ends. This entire thread has been about the 240-Z's offered for sale here in North America.... I see no reason for you to attempt to hijack the thread - yet again - to turn the subject of discussion to the few Z's sold in Japan. Nor do I see any reason that within the context nor subject of this discussion thread - I should have to make all manor of disclaimers, exceptions, nor references to, any other vehicles outside the context of the current discussion. If you would like to discuss the resale market and cars in Japan - please start another thread related to that subject. FWIW, Carl B.

Spokane Washington across the top of the US... to the Chicago, then down around the great lakes to Columbus, Ohio. Five days in Columbus, then off to Daytona Beach for a couple days. Daytona Beach to Denver for a couple days, then back to Spokane from Denver. Make that loop in 1970 and again in 71 and 72. Spokane to Columbus in 36 hours. Columbus to Daytona in 14 hours. Did the loop in my 70 240-Z for 1970 and 1971 - then in my 72 240-Z for 1972. Didn't record the exact mileage... but I did put 69K miles on my 70 Z in 18 months. Got married in 72 - We drove from Spokane to Portland, then down the West Cost to L.A. Stayed there a couple days, then went to - the Grand Cannon, Vegas, Bryce Canyon National Park, Salt Lake, and Zion National Parks as well as Yellowstone - then back to Spokane.. Ah.. to be in my 20's again - - Carl B.

Speaking of which - I'll be gone this Monday through Wednesday...headed up North to accompany #17 back to the body shop here in Florida. ;-) You going to meet us at ZRush's again? later, Carl

The Subject of this thread started with #305. I said #305 would not get a bid starting at $10K. I also said it's market value in California, in the condition it is show in would be $2,500.00 to $3,500.00. So I am not sure that you are disagreeing with me, or changing the subject to a second car...?? There is a significant difference between VIN 51 and VIN 305 in terms of how many other people will own lower VIN's, in the Low VIN Club. Excluding for now #6, 7 and 8.... the competition cars not sold to the public. If you own #305 there are at least 80 other people with lower VIN's. If you own #51 there are only 17 other people with lower VIN's that have been located so far. If you want to be in the second most exclusive group of 69 Z owners, you have to be in the "Teen Z Club" - find #00018 and you will be one of four in that group. Of course if you want to be in the most exclusive group of 69 Z owners you have to own #6, #7 or #8..... and you will be one of the three "Single Digit Z" owners - in which case you have the right to hold a single digit to everyone else in the club... The single digit held up denotes both the fact that you have a VIN with a single significant digit - or "1" denoting the $100,000.00+ you have to pay to get it. There are really two components related to value in your question or statement. The first component is the value of a completely restored Series I 240-Z. The second is the additional value of the VIN itself. In the past twelve months, I have arranged the sale of six or seven Concours Quality Restorations done on Series I 240-Z's. They all sold for between $25K and $35K. Two of them were 1969 Production Year cars with VIN's between 100 and 200. With these cars, buyers and sellers... I'm not sure it's possible to break out the value of the VIN - but I am sure it was far easier to find buyers quickly for the 69 production cars. I'm also sure that over time, the few 69 production cars that have been restored will command on average higher prices than the rest of the Series I cars. Given the fact that only 38 Vintage Z's were completed; and the Vintage Z's additional significant place in the History of the Z Car, I believe that they will be the real price leaders in the Collector Z Car Community. At present 143 1969 production year 240-Z's have been found.... and there is no way of telling how many of them have been or will be fully restored, but chances are good that it will be far more than 38 over time. If the Collector Car market stays as strong as it is now - I believe we could see the Vintage Z's or perhaps some Concours Quality Series I Z's selling for $50K within the next five to seven years. just my take on the market.. Carl B.

One Vote for the "Greatest Understatement" so far in this thread. America no longer has Journalists reporting the news, nor Editors demanding factual and complete accounts be presented to the public. We have Entertainers creating stories taken from daily life, for multiple channels of cable Info-tain-ment. Now more and more delivered by Movie Star Quality Female anchors. You never get the whole story - and what you do get is mostly misleading or simply wrong. FWIW, Carl B.

"Much better looking"!!... now wait a minute, lets not get carried away... vbg - Just too funny, Carl B.

Try driving it with less than a full tank - and leave the gas cap off. See what happens - Carl B.

And the by translation by Altavista is: "Hello Tilman, 240er are RSR in D, 260er can you already rather get. Actually Z's are offered quite rarely and are expensive in good condition, also because there are hardly parts here. The partial import from the USA is not the cheapest! The hardest hammer the "Rallyeamateur" drives here to Klaus Fritzinger (see under Google after), is beautiful also in Holland of the Rallyenachbau of z-POINT and also the cars of Germanz and germanzfan is super. If Du's means serious, then schau you for a good basis in the USA over, possibly here still in Switzerland. Much fun and success with the search"