Carl Beck

Hi Mike (everyone): Nissan was able to fix the problem... more or less... after some time... From the Datsun Fuel System Modifications Manual: (related to hard re-starting) PERCOLATION: Percolation causes a richer than normal air-fuel mixture. It affects the carburetor float bowl and the high pressure fuel line (the outlet side of the fuel pump), and may cause hot start problems. Percolation can come about in several ways: 1. Heat Soak - back into the fuel pump and high pressure fuel lines can raise the pressure enough to unseat the float bowl needle valve. This condition is known as "after fill". 2. Float bowl evaporation may lower the float level while there is residual pressure in the fuel line. This pressure then forces an excess amount of fuel into the float bowl. 3. Fuel evaporates in the float bowl, and the resulting vapor pressure may not vent out quickly enough. The high pressure developed in the float bowl forces fuel into the intake manifold. After explaining what was causing the problem - Nissan did supply the parts necessary and the procedures to be followed - to fix the problem. Given that every fine detail had to be perfect, and every modification had to be made in the order Nissan specified when the cars were new - I seriously doubt that approach would be useful today, even if you could still get the Modification Parts Kits.. When all else failed.. Nissan suggested cutting a large hole in the hood - and mounting a Competition Hood Scoop over it. <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24781 TARGET=NEW>See the Hood Scoop Thread</a> FWIW, Carl B.

HI Chuck: The production date on your 73 would be 10/72. I have cars with VIN's ranging from HLS30 125955 to HLS30 129828 during 10/72. I have been colecting VIN, Production Date and Original Engine serial numbers for the 240-Z's for about 18 years now, but because many people do not want their information published - I keep a private data base for referece to questions like yours. FWIW, Carl

Oops... sorry.... da... not Kawamata...but - - Mr. Kawazoe was the VP that was in the US and assigned to work with D.C.... It also seems that the time allowed to Edit Posts is far too short ! Carl B.

Hi Alan: Could be simply because there were only a few cars involved, that it was more acceptable to simply buy them back when they didn't satisfy their customers. It would seem that in 1974, stricter standards for automotive emissions than those of 1973, may have existed in certain prefectures of Japan, but not on a National Level. According to the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, the National Laws that sat specific standards for the first time in Japan, for HC, NOx and which incorporated earlier standards for CO were released in Dec. of 72 and took effect in March of 73. They stayed the same until they were increased for the cars produced in the 1975 fiscal year. Which would explain why the L20A's could be used in the cars recalled or repurchased without modifications in 73 and 74. As the US Spec. 260-Z's did comply with the far more strict emissions standards in effect here in the U.S. for 1974, I would think that it would have been easier to meet the Japanese Standards that covered the period 73 though 75. Japan did set far more stringent standards for 1978 related to NOx... but then later delayed its actual implementation until 1985. The US Spec. 280-Z's did meet the 78 standards for 78, which were about the same as those originally proposed for Japan for 78. For that matter the Z32's could not meet the even more stringent US Emissions Standards for 1996, but they could continue to be sold in Japan. For the most part Japan's Automotive Emissions and Safety Standards followed, but lagged and sometimes far behind those of the U.S. While the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers were somewhat successful in gaining delays or lowering Emissions and Safety Standards here in the US, along with the US Manufacturers - they held far more power in delaying or holding Japanese Emissions and Safety Standards back in Japan. There is an interesting review of Japans Environmental Controls titled <a href="http://www.yale.edu/leitner/pdf/1999-01.pdf" TARGET=NEW> The Political Economy of Japanese Pollution Regulation</a>, by Michael F. Thies, UCLA and Frances Rosenbluth, Yale University. It's an interesting bit of Nissan trivia - but when NISSAN USA was reorganized in 1966 Mr. Katayama became President of Nissan Motors USA, and Mr. Kawamata as given the assignment of representing Nissan Motors Japan in legislative matters related to Automotive Emissions and Safety Standards here in the US.. Mr. Kawamata was an Engineer and fluent in English, he reported directly to the President of Nissan Motors Ltd. in that capacity. In 1967 he also became Chairman of the newly formed Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), he had previously served as Chairman of the Automotive Industrial Association (JAMA's predecessor). In this capacity he also indirectly represented Aichi Kikai, Isuzu, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Toyota, Toyo Kogyo, Hino, Fuji Heavy Industries, Bridgestone Cycle, Honda, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and Yamaha for matters related to US Legislation. FWIW, Carl B.

That is such a creative piece of artwork - that it deserves to be painted one color - Snap-On Red... then maybe some accent's of white... Carl B.

HI Mike: Not to worry - I said "should be in the range" based on the fact that #207, 215, 216, 224,238, 239, 244, 258, 267, all have engines in that range. So "should be" was just my guess, based on a quick look at the data base... Engines and VIN's do seem to line up within broad ranges - usually within a four to six week range... Cars produced in Nov. of 69, that we have found - have had engine serial numbers between L24- 2122 and L24-2832... I should have given you the broader range to avoid concern... Most of the 500+ HLS30 cars produced in 1969, were produced in 11/69.. I'll add the data for #237 from the engine data plate to my data base... a new extension to the range... Yes, the engine data plates were screwed on. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Obewon: I would guess - looking at the picture you included.. that the door jam data plate was attached - as the holes from the original rivets would appear to have been filled... but are still visible. Did you mean - no door data plate was ever attached - when you got the car? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Onuthin: According to the Nissan Publications - the Series II (aka the Late Model 1971 Datsun 240-Z's HLS30)..started production at VIN 21000. The highest Series I Datsun 240-Z we have recorded is HLS30 20438 which has a build date of 01/71. It was sold and titled as a 1971 Datsun 240-Z and is still owned by its original owner. (has rear hatch vents, 240-Z Script on the 1/4 panels, plastic tool covers behind the seats, 70 style seat belts etc). For Dec. 1970 the VIN range we have found runs from HLS30-15605 to HLS30-18124. Car HLS30-18147 has a build date of 01/71 - and it has the Vented Z, with rear hatch vents. So it would seem to be quite possible that your Z was produced with both the Vented Z's and Rear Hatch Vents..... With a 12/70 production, I would expect it to have a) no holes in the steering wheel plastic tool covers behind the seats c) original style seat belt buckles e) no "pockets" in the sun visors f) no vents in the plastic panel on the 1/4 panels If it has a) though f) above - and if you like, I see no reason to retain the Vented Z emblems. If the rear quarters have the holes punched in them - I would worry about getting moisture behind emblems that would delay allowing it to dry out. Side note: Years ago, I ordered new rear quarter panels from Nissan for a Series I 240-Z. One of the Right Rear Quarter Panels has no vent hole stamped in it - the other has a die cut - that outlines where the vent hole would be on a Series II car - but it hasn't been stamped/punched out. So it would seem that the "transition" from the Series I to the Series II cars - started in late Dec. of 1970 - and was fully made by mid Jan. 1971. Between, yes - many parts were mixed between Series on some cars.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike: Jim Koslovski was the original owner - he was asking $8,500.00 for the car. It has an 11/69 production date. He never did supply the original engine serial number... but it should be in the range of L24-23xx or L24-24xx. #238 is in Seattle #239 is in Richardson, TX Several of the 69 Production 240-Z's were not equipped with Emissions Controls that included the air pumps/injectors, nor were they equipped with the gasoline vapor recovery systems. These items were not required in Canada, nor in 49 of the 50 States in the US for cars produced prior to 1970. I don't believe that you can actually "Restore" a 69 production car today for less than $30K when all is said and done. {unless you purchased and saved hundreds of parts over the past ten years or so}. In my opinion - If I had the storage space... I'd be a buyer at $7,500.00 if the car checks out underneath, in the battery area and if it still has it's original engine. So far we have located HLS30 DATSUN 240-Z's 31 cars with VIN's below 100 8 below #25 20 below #50 25 below #75 31 below #100 19 cars with VIN's between 100 and 200 (total of 50 below #200) 29 cars with VIN' between 200 and 300 (total of 79 below #300) 25 cars with VIN's between 300 and 400 (total of 104 below #400) 24 cars with VIN's between 400 and 500 (total of 128 below #500) 12 cars with VIN's between 500 and 789 (with 69 production dates, intermixed with 01/70 production) (total of 140 cars with 69 production dates) Note that "located" means the cars exist today - their condition is another matter. Most are reported to be in very bad condition. Only a few that I know of are really ready to show. The above numbers include #6, #7 and #8 that were not sold to the public but rather were the North American Show Cars - later given to race teams. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris/Gnosez (everyone): Same Old - Same Old. I was there in 1996 for the "creditability" comment. ZCCA Borad meeting at the Annual ZCCA Convention in Denver. The rep. from Nissan at that time was patting the ZCCA on the head for their efforts when he said; {I paraphrase..cjb}.... It's good that you have gathered several clubs together, to approach Nissan with one voice - it gives you the creditability you need. Like you Chris - I was amazed that no one from the ZCCA said squat. I was only a guest at the meeting and not a member of the ZCCA, so I remained quite in the meeting. After the meeting I pulled our friend from Nissan aside and told him what I thought. I said; excuse me, but it is Nissan that is loosing money, it is Nissan that lost market share in America for the past 10 years, it is Nissan that need to establish creditability with US at this point. The attitude that Customers must somehow establish creditability with Nissan is exactly why Nissan is going broke today. He replied that he hadn't meant it that way- only that he thought it was a good idea to ban together... I replied that yes I understood that - but did he understand his attitude and that of Nissan seemed to show though all their words and actions.. intended or not. The ZCCA can't really say anything - because they have one hand out for Nissan's funding - and the other over the mouths of their member clubs. As I've said before - it is really hard to tell Nissan that they are doing anything wrong at this point. Huge turn-around, high profit per unit, stock prices up, and the partnership with Renault is one of the very few corporate arrangements that has ever been made to work - maybe the only one. Nissan's profits and sales were down for 2006 about 22% from the prior year.. maybe if that happens again in 2007 - they will be a little more receptive to improving Customer Relations. Nonetheless - Nissan quite following the Total Quality Management Path somewhere around 1980... while Toyota continued on... I don't see Nissan's corporate culture changing much in the near future. As an aside - my neighbor went to the Toyota Dealer day before yesterday, with the intention of buying a new Toyota Forerunner.... two hours of being jacked around by the sales staff.. and she walked out.. Went to the Mazda Dealer the next day - and bought an RX-7 Crossover in 15 minutes... The point being that it's not just the Factory - the Dealer Chains play an equally large roll in all this... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Stephen: You must have mistaken me for someone that follows NASCAR... -vbg- I have no idea what NTCS, NNCS and NBS are.... Carl B.

The 240-Z sold in America held a HUGE profit margin for Nissan Motors Ltd. 70-73. The 510 sold in such numbers that it too was a huge profit center. I believe that I read last year - that Nissan lead the automotive manufacturers in terms of Profit per Unit...{which is why Nissan stock went from $8.00 per share in 98 - to around $32.00 per share by 2006.. I'd have to go back and look at the exact numbers, but I bought in at $8.00 and sold out at $24.00}. A couple of short years after Carlos took over - Nissan had eliminated a $20 BILLION DOLLAR debt and was running the Black again... So I don't believe it has had much to do with profit these last few years, nor in the 70's. As I recall, Nissan spent something like $200,000,000.00 on the entire Dream Garage ad. campaign. All to remind us that they were "DATSUN" and there was a time when Mr. K cared about the end customers here in America. On the other hand, I'm not sure what they spent on the Vintage Z Program - let's say it was $40K per car and they resold...what was it? 38 Z's. Let's guess that they sold the Vintage Z's to the dealers for $20K each... that means that Nissan USA spent $760,000.00 on the Vintage Z Program - for which they got about ...what.....$10,000,000.00 worth of free publicity. I'd say that they made out just fine on that deal... Nissan never was made up of car guys. There were of course a few exceptions, and there were of course different times... but that seems to be the case at most large manufacturers... No question that it would be nice if another real "car guy" was at the helm of Nissan USA agian. Just as the Toyota 2000GT revived the Sports/GT project at Nissan in 65... perhaps Toyota entering NASCAR will wake up someone at Nissan again... On second thought maybe that wouldn't be a good thing for use either.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gary: Just a fine point of clarification - so we don't confuse anyone following or reading later. Hagerty doesn't have an "exclusion" for occasionally driving a Classic Car to work. Exclusions in a Policy outline specific things that are excluded from coverage. Their policies provide "coverage" for occasional pleasure driving of your Classic Car. The main point here is that your Classic is covered - if your intended use, at any point in time, was based on deriving Pleasure from an occasional drive. So if you get up one day and decide to drive your Classic Car in to work -because it's a fine sunny day and you just want to show it off ... it's covered. It would not be covered - if you intend to rotate the task of getting to and from work - between your Classic Car and your daily driver. In this case there is no intention of Pleasure Driving... but rather an intention of sharing the "duty" of getting you to and from work. Example: It was beautiful today here in the Tampa Bay Area of Florida. Clear, dry and about 72 degrees (F)... I got my white 72 240-Z out of the garage - and drove it about 20 miles from Clearwater over to Tampa (across Tampa Bay)... to the International Shopping Mall... Traffic and Mall Parking were very light, so I parked the Z right outside the doors to one of the entrances to the Mall. Ran in, made a purchase - and yes - when I returned to the car - there was about four guys standing around looking it over. <VBG> Z compliments were accepted and Z stories exchanged... it's part of the fun of owning one... Purely a Pleasure Drive - my brief stop at the Mall - well that was pleasure too. I do not normally use my Classic Cars to run routine errands, do daily shopping trips, nor use it in leu of my daily driver..... but a 40 mile round trip spin in the 240-Z... even with a stop at the Mall.. would be covered under my policy with the Hagerty. Fine lines.... sometimes hard to keep clear... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kerrigan: Personally, I believe that one should, in most cased, do what the Engineers that designed and built the car - tell you to do. According to them, the outer lip of the windshield gasket is to be glued to the car body with an adhesive. If I had to guess, I'd say that because the air pressure inside the car changes from negative (sucking exhaust gasses in through a loose deck lid seal) to positive (relative pressures) when you roll the windows up, with the fresh air vents open - that seal along with the glass is designed to flex a bit. Also because our unibodies are not actually the most rigid of structures.. they do actually flex quite a bit themselves, so that rubber gasket is not only a seal it's a shock absorber of sorts.. Gluing the outside lip of that gasket to the car body simply assures that area isn't the one doing the moving and absorbing the shock - when the main body of the gasket is supposed to be. Nissan doesn't specify exactly what "adhesive" to use - but I would guess that close to 40 years after it was originally designed - you'd be pretty safe using a modern silicone sealer/adhesive. Looking at a few old cars I've taken apart - it looks like they used the same weather stripping adhesive they used on all the other weather strips/seals - the yellow 3M stuff.. I think you made the right decision - to take it to an experienced automotive glass installer... Watch them anyway - if the installer lays out the windshield on a support surface - applies a very small amount of sealer around the edge of the glass, Then puts the gasket on the glass. Then applies a very thin coat to the surface of the gasket, where the gasket would meet the outside of the windshield frame (where it contacts the outside of the body). Then installs the stainless steel trim..... Then puts a cord around the inside channel of the gasket to get ready to install it Then sprays a little soapy water to windshield frame It is most likely he's done a few before. If on the other hand he intends to put the stainless trim in - after putting the windshield on the car - stop him!! Once the gasket is in place in the windshield frame - it is NEXT to Impossible to install the stainless steel trim with out damaging the the rubber on the gasket that is supposed to cover it. Actually that "trim" is not there for looks.... it's there to keep the gasket from deforming in the wrong direction. Just my opinion...FWIW, Carl B.

Bump...

Great - thanks Victor... Carl B.

Hi Avery: The fact that you mentioned that you "planed to use" your car for transportation to/from work on a regular basis - even if once a week, automatically makes it a daily driver... even if only one day a week, or every other week. In effect, regardless if you realized it or not - you told them you planned to use your Classic Car in place of your daily transportation, just to get you to/from work. I've been with the Hagerty for many many years - and every once in a while - I'd drive one of my Classic, Collectible or Special Interest cars into work - just to show it off. The company I worked for held "Classic Car Appreciation Days" about twice a year - and everyone brought their Classics to work for a parking lot lunch hour show.. In both cases the cars were fully covered under the terms and conditions of the Hagerty Policy. That's quite a different situation than the planned use of the car for transportation to/from work. The fact of the matter is - Classic, Collectible and Special Interest policies are regulated by the States the insurance is sold in. For that reason, the CC&SI policies are not allowed to offer the same coverage as Full Line Insurance Companies what write normal automobile insurance. For the most part the CC&SI carriers full a need, that is left void by regular insurance companies - ie. to insure cars older than 15 to 20 years, to offer Agreed Values on cars with no traditional Book Values and very few data points in terms of "current market values". The rule really is - that you can not use a Classic Car for daily transportation, nor use it to replace your daily transportation should that daily transportation be tied up or out of service for the day. All CC&SI insurers can offer very low rates because they are very picky about your driving record, your age, the number of other potential drivers in the household... that is especially true of teenage drivers... Nonetheless, better to be honest up front - than to have something happen then only to find out that coverage was being denied because you misrepresented your planned use of the car. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bob: As all things - moderation. Don't over insure.. I see insurance as a way of laying off risk that I can not afford to realize by myself. Small claims like things under $5K won't change my lifestyle, nor keep me broke for a lifetime. The risks associated with Personal Liability represent very large risk however. Since I do drive all my cars on occasion, I insure mostly against personal liability actions when it comes to Classic Car insurance. {lets face it, we all still drive relatively inexpensive Classics and even a $20K loss wouldn't be the end of the world - but a $300,000.00 or more judgment for personal liability would be a really killer...} The real value here is the fact that since you drive the car so little, and most people are usually very careful when driving their Classic's.. the exposure for the insurance company is also greatly reduced.. and in turn the premiums are very low by comparison to normal automobile insurance. You don't want to set an Agreed Value much above the actual replacement costs of your car, because then you are paying higher premiums than needed. However you do want to assure that your Z would be properly repaired, rather than totalled out for less than it's value. To me, the real discriminator among any of the Classic Car Insurance speciality companies is their Customer Service. So far, in the last 15 years I have not had one person write that they were not happy campers with the Hagerty. Like I said, they are very real Car People... FWIW, Carl B.

I don't know who "they" are - but your local Datsun Dealer had one for sale back in the day... Part Number 99990-0004 Luggage Rack This was a Nissan Authorized, Dealer Installed Accessory <a href=http://zhome.com/History/72AccBroch.htm TARGET=NEW> Luggage Rack</a> I doubt you'll find too many today - took me about six years of watching E-Bay to finally find one... I also had a roof mounted TENT that was neat as heck... long since lost... FWIW, Carl B.

Carbon build up - or a deposit preventing a valve from fully closing. Did you check the valve adjustment before the compression test? Run the test with a warm engine? FWIW Carl B.

Oh.. thanks Gary... now that you've told everyone - no need for a PM -vbg-... I had have Collectible, Classic and Special Interest vehicles insured with Class Car Insurance companies for about 40 years now.. I've been with several different companies over that period. YES - DARN - after driving 240-Z's for 35 years without ever bending a fender - I bent the right front fender, front bumper, broke the headlight bucket, bent the lower right finishers, BRE Spook broken and right front turn signal cracked.....dented the hood dead center as well. On my white 72 that I had recently finished "Refreshing". I'm the second owner on the car, it had about 60K miles and I had about $16K in the car and the Refresh... I rolled down a slight incline, leaving a shopping center parking lot... when a Ford Expedition stopped suddenly and very unexpectedly in front of me - I hit it at about 5 mph... I saw it pull out onto the street ahead of me, I looked back up the street one more time to assure traffic was clear - let my foot off the brake and started to roll down the incline - out toward the street - looked back ahead - and BANG.. hit the Ford... that for no reason had unexpectedly stopped again about twenty feet ahead...#$*&%(*%#@! I called Hagerty a few days later - and told them I had a claim to fill... CB> - - -is me HI> -- is the lady in Claims at Hagerty Insurance CB> Hello, I hate to say it, but I have had a minor accident with one of my 240-Z's and need to know what the process is for filing a claim. HI> Oh, that too bad, are you alright? BR> Yes, I'm fine, just bent the nose of my 72 Z up a bit. HI> I'm sorry to hear that - you must feel horrible. Just take it to the repair shop of our choice and let us know how much it is going to cost. If you don't have a good repair shop that you deal with and trust in your area - give me a call and we'll get you recommendations from other Classic Car owners in your area. If there is anything else you need, or we can do, just give me a call. CB> Is there a number to which I need to FAX an estimate, or how do I get approval for the body shop to proceed? HI> if you like, you can FAX the estimate to me at xxx-xxx-xxxx..... Again, if there is anything else we can do, just give me a call. So I took the car to my body shop - told them to replace every bent/broken part with only new OEM Nissan parts.. then repaint the car. The car was stripped down again (meaning all panels taken back off.. all glass out back out, the interior removed etc etc... just like we had done it the first time)... No real body work - just paint the new parts along with the car and bolt everything back together. As I recall it was around $6K... (had to get some NOS parts out of Charlie in Canada) The body shop FAX'd the estimate to the number at the Hagety after going over it with me ... and told them to proceed with the work. About seven or eight days later - I was at the shop checking on the progress... and my bodyman said that he hadn't heard back from the insurance company. I told him I'd call them when I got home. CB> Hello - I was just at my body shop and the manager said he had not received authorization to proceed with the repair of my Z. Can you tell me how long that usually takes? HI> Hold on Mr. Beck, I'll check to see what's going on........ Hello Mr. Beck, we sent the check out three days ago - you should have it in the mail today or tomorrow. If you don't receive it in a another day or two let me know. Send us some new pictures when it's done - If there is anything else we can do - just give me a call. The next day - I received the check from the Hagety - in full. I took it to the body shop and the manager said he'd never seen anything like that... I handed him the check, and told him I'd sign off on it when the car was done - and as usual when I was happy. <vbg>... If Hagety's premiums were twice as much as everyone else - which they aren't - you couldn't get me to switch carriers. I like their total involvement in the Classic Car hobby, their support for votech schools to train people in auto restoration, their road service coverage and most of all - I really like the way they treat their CUSTOMERS... The only thing I don't like - is that they implemented one of those damn automated phone answering systems... and I've told them that. IMHO - you can not do better than the Hagerty. They are real car people and a pleasure to deal with. FWIW, Carl B.

Well it was worth $10,700.00 to E-Bayer "ben_stamper" - who had three feedbacks... Was it "worth" it - yes, to ben at least... was worth $10,600.00 to the second highest bidder... If the car was "as presented".... Rebuilt Engine:.... at least $5K in that one Repaint...top coat ... maybe $3500.00n (would have to see the car and the before and after pictures) Rebuilt 81/83 5spd. with 3.56 rear gear $750.00 at least. Tokiko Gas Shocks, new suspension bushings...at least $250.00 There's $9500.00 - so for an extra $1,200.00 the buyer got a fairly clean 1971 240-Z... with an interior that looks very good, Granted it isn't perfect - wrong hood, sun roof... The new owner can drive that car now - enjoy it for a couple years... and if later a cleaner car can be found - he will most likely get most of his money back out of this car... The seller on the other hand was lucky if he got half his money back... Three or four years ago - this would have been a $4,500.00 car at best.... FWIW, Carl B.

Of the four 240-Z's that were in the warehouse, that Nissan did not want to keep - 1 is at Universal Nissan, 2 are owned by a friend of mine, and 1 is now owned by another member of this forum. BTW - Nissan didn't own all the cars pictured in that Poster... FWIW, Carl B.

$450.00 to rebuild your 5spd., if you carry it in to the shop - sounds reasonable to me. $750.00 to $800.00 for a rebuilt 5spd. also sounds reasonable. You can figure $150.00/$250.00 for a good used but worn 5spd., then $100.00 for the mechanic to go pull one out of the junk yard. In which case he is responsible for making sure it's a good rebuildable unit of the proper type/year to start with. Depends on where you are and how plentiful 5spd.s are. $850.00/ $875.00 to swap-in a fully rebuilt 5spd. - into your car - Drive Out so to speak... FWIW, Carl B.

If they are actually selling... With hidden bidder I.D. you no longer have a right to know who your bidding against. The sellers brother, wife or mother could be bidding the price higher and higher.. Either to get you to raise your bid, or bid you up to the sellers real selling price. Bidding on E-Bay took a serious turn for the worse when they started hidding the bidder's ID's. I wouldn't buy anything there - it was bad enough before just taking a change on the car.... FWIW, Carl