Carl Beck

Hi Steve: I believe that the "respect" is already there among all serious Car Nuts.. Polls among many "automotive experts" taken over the last decade - always result in the DATSUN 240-Z placing in the top 5 Sports/GT ever built. Yea gad - in AUTOMOBILE's "Sports Car Of The Decade" series - the DATSUN 240-Z placed second only behind the Ferrari Dayton Coupe for the Decade of the 70's. How much "RESPECT" can a car get? On top of that - the Daytona should really have been in the Decade of the 60's - but I think the pannel couldn't decide between the Ferrari 275GTB-4 and the Datyona 365GTB-4....so the bumped the Daytona into the Decade of the 70's. The only people who don't respect the DATSUN 240-Z for the rare and true Classic it is - are morons or simply spousing "sour grapes", ignore them. I don't hear from any of the Collectors - any indication that they are moving into a selling phase, but rather are still in the buying phase at this point. It may be two to three years before we see serious Collectors trading serious cars at the Classic Car Auctions. That will happen only after all possibility of private sales taking place - had been exhausted. The smartest most forward looking Collectors are at the present time buying up the #1 and #2 Condition cars that are still, or were, in the hands of the Enthusiasts; and in some cases the Original Owners. That supply has already started to dry up.. but there are still a few really nice cars that can be bought for $20K to $30K from that group. (you won't get a serious Collector to sell a car at that price today!!). All these Special Interest Classic Cars seem to go though various phases. Just in the last three years have the more advanced, serious Collectors, started to look around and gather up that 3% of the Classic 240-Z's that have been put in. or maintained in, #1 and #2 Condition by the Enthusiasts. Prices for these cars are usually between $20K and $30K right now, but sales outside that range have been completed... high of $40K and a low of $6k. This shows you that the rarity and desirability of these Classics is only just now becoming known among their present enthusiast owners. Once the number of the Real Collectors that are starting to notice and gather the 240-Z's grows to critical mass, there is a secondary effect. An even broader range of Collectors start to get involved as they realize that #1 and #2 Condition examples have doubled in price in the last couple of years. These are the Collectors that hadn't really thought of a Datsun 240-Z before... but now that they see them in more and more Collectors garages.. they too decide that they need one. Thus demand and prices start to go up - as the original supply is sucked off the market. The third order effect starts when "Speculators" begin to realize that serious Collectors are now in the market in significant numbers. The Speculators then scurry around attempting to buy up any remaining examples, and/or start pushing 240-Z's though quickie "restoration" processes...Nonetheless this pushes prices even higher - and starts to drag the values of the #3 and #4 cars up along the way... The very cars that the enthusiasts want and used to be able to afford... These second and third order effects will take place over the next two to four years..they don't happen over night. Might even be the next three to five years... but it will happen before most of our eyes. Just look back a few years at the Big Healey's... and realize that one #1 condition example sold at a recent auction for $110K. A car you could have bought ten years ago for $18,500.00. So.... 240-Z's bringing "big" (big for them) money at a major auction.. I think it's still five years away. The next major milestone the 240-Z's need to break is the $50K barrier... and I think you might just see that surpassed in the next three to four years. A car that sold for $30K this year, will sell for over $50K in four to five years if the market follows the usual trends... Keep in mind that we are talking about the best of the best here.. not #3 nor #4 Condition cars. We are also taking about "Stock Production Cars".... not historic race/rally nor very limited production "specials". Most of them are already way over $50K and some are already over way over $100K. They too have the effect of dragging the prices of the #1 and #2 Pure Stock examples ever higher. Just how I see it at the present time... and one can vary the price and time frame by 50% one way or the other.... only time will tell. IMHO we are still ten to fifteen years away from a Stock Production 240-Z selling for over a $100k.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Max (everyone) Thanks - to look at the future, I'll review a bit of the past.... I made that presentation to Mr. Kitahora and Mr. Katayama in Dearborn, the week that Mr. K was inducted into the Automobile Hall of Fame. At that time Mr. Kitahora was the Senior VP of Marketing and Sales in the US. Because Mr. Katayama had personally invited me to the induction ceremony I was in Dearborn the day before, the day of and the day after the event. I had an opportunity to trap Mr. Kitahora in a more or less private and somewhat captive audience (arranged by Mr. K after he reviewed the presentation with me the day before.) I believe that Mr. K fully understood the "concept" in both an overall and detailed manor. Mr. K supported it very enthusiastically. I'm not so sure that Mr. Kitahora really grasp the concept in it's entirety. I supplied them both with copies of the presentation along with notes for each slide. While I was kept fairly well informed over the following years - I actually did not receive any formal feedback from Nissan as to the viability of the design... or any of its component parts. As the situation unfolded with the Renault take-over, I knew the whole idea of a clean slate design for the new Z was dead. As I said earlier, I did see a couple of the ideas presented, show up in the 350-Z... but only minor one's that could have come from anywhere.. I still believe that the next generation Z has to offer far more than the competition in terms of real Customer Value. Something that can not be purchased everywhere else... As for going forward again.... At the present time Mr. K is still our best hope for a "real" Z Car again. I do try to keep in touch with some of the friendlier faces in Nissan and if the opportunity presents itself again - I would respectfully suggest that Peter Brock should be one of their design consultants on that project. Faced with supporting and promoting the 350Z, or having no Z Car return to the US it is my belief that Mr. K reluctantly chose the former. I on the other hand, took purely a "Customers" perspective and broadly and publicly dis'ed the badge engineering as being nothing short of re-inventing the AM-X. Needless to say that didn't win me any political friends in Nissan Corporate... I also believe that it is Nissan that needs Customers as friends and supporters - not the other way around. There were and still are voices in the Z Car Community that woo Corporate favor by telling the people at Nissan what they want to hear, rather than telling them what they need to hear. Many of us that have worked in major corporations know how that game is played... but in the end it does neither the corporation nor its customers any real good, and indeed usually leads to long term harm. 36 years is a long time to wait for the second coming.... but for all the right elements to fall in place again it just might be another 36 years at Nissan. In the meantime - lets all keep our old Z's alive and well as we wait for the return of DATSUN. FWIW, Carl B.

Preservation is your first step and main goal at this point.. Get on that as soon as possible. Sand the rusted area down to shinny metal where ever you can. Even then, you will still have rust in cracks and crevases. Go to an Automotive Paint Store and get a quart of Ospho. Ospho is a mild phosphoric acid solution. Applied to rust, it will chemically convert the iron oxide (rust) to iron phosphate. That will stop the rust. Ospho is mixed at a mild solution level, so it won't hurt painted surfaces if rinsed off with water... but you don't want to let it sit on a concrete floor for more than an hour without rinsing it off with water. You can strip the entire body down to bare metal, or do individual spots at a time - but address any rusted area's as soon as possible - rust grows EVERY DAY. Once the rust has been stopped..(about 24 hours after the application of the Ospho), wipe the area down with lacquer thinner and apply an epoxy primer to seal the metal against moisture in the air. I would not recommend using POR-15 as a primer... a good epoxy primer over bare metal will allow you to sand the area later when your ready to actually do the paint and body work.. Carl B.

It will be lucky to bring a bit of $8,500.00... The best 240-Z's never make it to an auction today.. they are sold via private sales at this point. Demand far out strips supply for true "Collector Quality" examples (#1 and #2 condition cars in the $20K to #30K range). Perhaps in three to five years, you'll start to see true "Collector Quality" cars making it to the auctions. That will be because with a gathering of several buyers - willing to pay high prices - in one place at one time - it will start to make sense to have the car available there for personal inspection, by everyone - prior to the auction. Just my opinion... FWIW, Carl B.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for you - but "might" be worth it - IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. If you can buy the car for $2K or less.. then spend another $1,500.00 to have it put back together... and when you are done - have a car that's worth $5,500.00 to $6,500.00 it "might" be worth it. How much spare time do you have - and can you spend that on the car? On the other hand - do you really have the time during the week, to deal with a professional shop.. get the car and all the needed parts gathered up and transported to that shop, then stay on top of the "repairs" to see that they get done in a timely manor? Can you afford the "risk" that someone will make a stupid mistake (it happens to the best of them), which will result in a second trip to the shop.. and perhaps a second tear down of the engine? I really don't think that $1,500.00 would be out of line, for a professional shop to do the needed work - using your Parts... if you can find one. Does it need a new water pump, how about a new oil pump and a rebuilt starter and/or a rebuilt alternator - need new motor mounts?... might as well do the clutch while the engine is out... Now all new hoses/belts and a battery.... Too bad the block wasn't boiled out - to clean the water passages and oil passages... you might want to have that done before you start putting it back together. You could wind up spending as much on this car in total actual dollars - as what you could have bought a clean, good running car to begin with. Keep shopping until you find a nice car you can drive home and enjoy... you don't need a project at this point from what you have said... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Will: In 98 we were still under the impression that Nissan would start with a clean slate design... thus our input. We did see a couple of our ideas show up in the 350-Z. The form of the convertible top cover behind the seats... the concept of offering different levels of trim at different price points (ie the Track Version etc.). Of course once Renault took over - the RB series engines were lost as they shut that plant down in the first wave of cost reductions. While Nissan said that they felt that they would not be able to make the RB meet the stricter emissions requirement... BMW seemed to have little problem keeping their L6 current, and of course GM developed and introduced a completely new 4.2L in-line six for their trucks. I guess the R&D budgets would simply not allow the necessary advanced development necessary at the time... Well maybe next time.... FWIW, Carl

This is what we told Nissan in 98... <a href=http://zhome.com/OurZ/NewZ.htm TARGET=NEW>Our New Z </a> Scrol down and follow links to the following pages. FWIW, Carl B.

It really isn't a good idea to remove, or have a non-working, vacuum advance on a street engine. On a road race engine - intended to spend most of it's time at higher RPM's and geared to do so - low end throttle response is not so much an issue. Not to mention that most of the triple carb. set-ups lack a port for carburetor vacuum anyway. They also run finely tuned timing curves in their distributors... and can live with a lot of initial advance at the crank... they also have accelerator pumps!! A great performing street engine is an entirely different matter. It routinely rev.'s from 750 RPM to 4000 or 5000 RPM. Sometimes that rev range is accomplished slowly... other times you want it accomplished as quickly as possible. The ignition timing advance/retard that your engine needs at various RPM's and throttle positions is a pretty specific number if you want to extract it's top performance potential. Spend a lot of money on "special" spark plug wires, a super hot coil and/or MSD... and all is for NOT - if that fat spark is to early or too late - in the combustion process. I believe it is better to think of the vacuum advance - as being a "timing retard - overridden with a vacuum control signal". This just gives you a broader range over which you can control and adjust the specific timing advance curve that your engine needs in order to preform at it's highest potential at any point in time. From idle to wide open throttle - the L6 responds best with about 20 degrees of additional advance... Without the vacuum advance, your distributor (and thus your engine) has to depend on the centrifugal advance weights to spin up and advance the timing... that is a far slower process, than the vacuum advance would have taken... so you get slower acceleration. (and possible bogs or poor throttle response). The vacuum advance gets it vacuum signal from carburetor vacuum (ported vacuum), when you go to WOT the vacuum signal from the carburetor increases as the engine demands(sucks) more air/fuel through the throttle opening.... to handle this effectively your engine needs more advanced timing until either the centrifugal advance catches up - or the engine RPM (load) levels off... The reason you can't use manifold vacuum to control a vacuum advance on the distributor is because manifold vacuum "drops" suddenly when you go to WOT - where carburetor (ported) vacuum increases. Yes - on a street engine you can simply set the static timing at the crank to a more advance point and to an effect, off-set the lack of the vacuum advance - - - but that is not a good trade-off. because your timing on the rest of the timing curve - over a range of engine RPM's and Loads is no longer as flexible nor nearly as well matched to the needs of the engine. Timing is everything... a street engine with a weak spark and correct timing, will out perform a street engine with a huge fat hot spark delivered to early or too late... That vacuum advance mechanism is a critical control element in the over-all timing curve that a good running street engine needs.. Make sure your's is working correctly. You'll get better initial acceleration, broad range performance and better fuel economy.. FWIW, Carl B.

1972zed Go Pure Stock with your Restoration... and get it done. You'll have a Classic Car and he'll have a hot rod. Then go buy another 240-Z, and drop that Turbo L28 in... properly set up it's and easy 300HP... At that point you'll have a Classic Car and a hot rod.. but he'll still only have a hot rod. Then go buy a nice, fairly well kept 70-72 911 (watch for RUST!!) ...make it an "E" but one that is still all stock. Don't do anything to it, but own it. Drive it once every couple of weeks..(it will make you really appreciate the 240-Z all the more). At that point you'll have a fully restored Classic Car to show, another Classic to own (stock 911) and a hot rod. All of which will have cost you about the same amount of money that he's going to poor into that 911 hot rod.... If you shop very carefully, don't get in an hurry and buy that two owner, all stock, 70-72 911 at the right price - then just hold it for five years, you'll most likely double your money. Buy the right car and DON'T PUT ANY MONEY INTO IT... remember the game here is to Beat the Brother... with car knowledge and strategy... Owning both a stock 240-Z and a stock 911 at the same time, you'll have the creditability to dis the 911 all over the place. Having a 240-Z with 300HP and a good suspension set-up, you'll be able to out run him on the track as well... How Good Can It Get?.... good luck, Carl B.

Are you sure you ran out of gas? Or was the gas gauge showing very low, when your fuel pump happened to go out? Take a can or a plastic mile bottle or whatever - disconnect the fuel line where it comes out of the fuel pump and put it in the bottle... crank the engine and see if you have fuel at that point. If you have an electric pump at the rear - disconnect the fuel line where it comes out of the filter. Just a thought.... Carl B.

Hi Arne/Walter (everyone): California had been the "Import Car Capital" of the US since the mid-50's. It's actually kind of funny today, but the men at the Nissan Head Office in Japan, really expected New York to be the foothold area for the sale of Datsun's in the U.S. (so Katayama was given the Western States) For 1970 Sales in the Eastern Division (26 States + D.C. Area) Florida Lead State in the Division Cars= 5,932 Trucks= 3462 Sales Totals for the Eastern Division Cars =39,804 Trucks= 13,997 (Walter - Indiana Cars = 50 and Trucks = 21) Sales in the Western Division (23 States) California Lead State in the Division Cars = 32,053 Trucks= 19,894 Sales Totals for the Western Division Cars 57,083 Trucks 35,355 Sales Totals for Hawaii Cars 3654 Trucks 964 Total Sales in the US for 1970 Cars = 100,541 Trucks = 50,316 1970 Sales in the US for VW = 569,182 240-Z Production in 1970 = something like 20,000 VW Karman-Ghia Production = something like 39,000 Mustang Production in 1970 = something like 300,000 Camero Production in 1970 = something like 125,000 Corvair Production in 1965 = something like 160,000 FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: Thanks for the input. I was trying to find out if any of the after-market shocks, were significantly longer or shorter in Piston Length, than the OEM Replacement Cartridges. Doesn't look like there is any significant difference.... The OEM Front Shock Piston Length including the treads... is 8 1/4". FWIW, Carl B.

Damn... I hate it when that happens... Hope enough people raise cane and get the ITS group on the track by themselves... So who did win in ITS? Carl B.

From my experience (now 36 years of ownership) - I didn't see the dashes cracking until they were at least 15 years old. I have two 1972 240-Z's with still perfect dashes.. I'm the original owner on one, and the second owner on the other. Both simply have had "reasonable" care. Given the market price and then current market competition - the plastics used in the Z were far superior to most. FWIW Carl B.

Hi Ed: Now that is actually a function of "poor design"....IMHO. Carl B.

Bump.... Come on guys - you mean to tell me that no one has new set of shocks laying around that they haven't gotten installed yet !.. Carl B

With all the metal work that has been done, I'd want to see pictures of the process in progress. He said the quarter panels were replace and done correctly - I'd want to see what he considers a correct job to be... Not a bad looking car from the pictures... but you'd want to closely inspect this car before buying. I don't think he'll meet his reserve with "pre-approved" buyers only... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gang: If you have a new KYB GR2 shock cartridge for the FRONT of your 240-Z (KYB #361002) - that is not yet installed in your car; could you please extend the piston rod to it's fully extended length. Then measure the distance from the top of the cartridge to the tip of piston rod. Likewise the rear #361001 Likewise the Tokico's... Let me know what you find..... thanks, Carl B.

Hi Rick: Just in my personal experience - in general NAPA has both better Counter People, and they offer better quality parts - if you ask for them, or let the counter person know you want them, and rare willing to pay for the higher quality parts that they sell. Usually the NAPA people will have access to the specifications of the parts they sell, and they are usually willing to look them up if your standing there in the store in front of them trying to make a decision. In the last couple of decades... "price" seems to be everything.. indeed the only thing .. for most buyers and NAPA has had to respond to the price competition from the larger chain AutoParts Stores... so in many cases if you don't specify that you are looking for and willing to buy "quality".. the Counter People will grab the lowest price item to quote... In which case you might as well go to AutoZone or PepBoys etc. In many cases the price competition has been great for consumers - in just as many cases it's really been a screw job... as always "buyer beware"... good luck, Carl B.

Hi Moonpup: Thanks for letting us know... While I personally am convinced that Mr. Goertz really had nothing to do with the actual design of the Datsun 240-Z, others still do. One person that my research lead me to, had worked for Mr. Goertz for a couple of years directly and then worked with him on a couple of projects years later. That person told me that the truth would come out when Mr. Goertz was no longer with us. He believed that it was indeed Goertz's hand on the design...that guided/refined it. I'll revisit that person now and see if he can produce the drawings, documents and/or photographs that would prove Mr. Matsuo did in fact see the finished A550X at Yamaha Design, or that he did in fact see the original drawings, sketches etc done by Mr. Goertz - and then carried on from there. In point of fact - I really do not care what the truth is - I simply want to know the truth. So far, years indeed decades of research on this subject and the man himself, leads me to belive that Mr. Goertz claim to the "design" of the Datsun 240-Z may have existed in his minds eye... but in fact, I can find nothing to support his personal perception as in any way linked to reality. I will say that you can not follow the life of Mr. Goertz without developing some level of admiration for him in many regards. In a very real sense, he represented the "Great American Success Story". A Jewish Emigrant from Germany just prior to WW-II he came to America with a somewhat substandard formal education and no real assets other than having a Father that was a German Count. A title he much later inherited, upon the death of his older brother. While the media like to refer to him as a "German Count"... being German myself and the great grandson of German Emigrants.. I say that Mr. Goertz was indeed an "American"... he became an American Citizen, spent his lifes work here and served in the US Army during WW-II. He also openly expressed his love and admiration for America, the freedoms we enjoy and the great opportunities we offer all our citizens. I am personally sad to hear of his passing. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Arvin: Good to see another person that considers the Datsun 240-Z to be their Dream Car. It might be helpful if you could elaborate a bit more about what you have in mind, when you say you want to locate one for future restoration? Perhaps we can then offer advice or steer you to a car that meets your desires/needs. For example - does that mean: A) Your thinking of buying a pretty nice car you can drive today and not be ashamed of, then perhaps in two or three years you want to do a complete and proper "as it left the factory" restoration. OR You plan to find a car that within a few months - you will disassemble and restore - with the intention of enjoying the process of restoration itself OR C) Are you thinking that anything you can afford to buy today - will most likely need to be fully restored at some point in the future as you can afford it. FWIW, Carl B Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

... if you look at the picture sblake01 provided in response #5 - you will see that item #38 slides inside item #39 and is then held in place by the pin #32 and the snap-ring #37. I think kinfish was referring to item #39 as being "the fork"... (not the actual shift forks inside the transmission). Note also that item #38 has a "bushing" - ie item #34. I believe that kinfish was saying that part of the sloppy shifter feel is caused by that #34 bushing wearing.. and not the pin that goes though it. Many people replace that bushing and pin, with a stronger steel bushing and secure the parts with a bolt/nut in place of the pin. There are rubber bushings that hold the shift lever #1 in item #38. There are steel bushings available that replace the original rubber ones here - but it transmits more noise into the passenger cabin. BTW - what "3 bushings" did you already replace? (item numbers in the picture?). FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Rick: Sorry - I should have addressed that question about the engine to 240GL... At any rate - I can't give you a specific Brand/Part Number - because I haven't bought a fuel pump and regulator for a triple carb set up for about 30 years now... I am still running the Conelec Fuel Pump I bought back in the 70's... it's never failed... It puts out 7 pounds of pressure and 70GPH - and I have it regulated down to 3 lbs. with a Carter Fuel Pressure Regulator. The Conelec pump was an Aircraft Certified unit and at the time it was known as being one of the most simply built (fewest moving parts) and reliable pumps on the market. What's "best" today - I don't know.... but you'll need about the same spec.'s ( I think that AC actually wound up buying Conelec's patents). Hi 240GL: With the triple carb set up you need a lot of initial timing advance... about 20 degrees. But, you have to modify your mechanical advance so it doesn't start to come on until about 1800 RPM. Total advance seems to work best when limited to 34 degrees and you want that all in by 3500 RPM. Any good automotive electrical shop should be able to set your distributor up and measure/adjust the timing curve on a Sun Distributor Machine...(as long as you know what you want) BTW - for the engine set up you are running - with triple carb.s .. you don't want a primary venture size much larger than 30mm. (most of these set-up's seem to come with 32's or larger.. and they bog badly off the line). I've had Weber 40 DCOE's since the mid 70's - and really never did learn to tune them. But the guy that did finally set them up right for me - certainly knew his stuff... (thus my advice above)... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bruce (eveyone) The Series I cars were originally painted with an Alkyd Enamel. They were cellulose based (vegetable oil) and required lots of EPA unfriendly solvents to spray. Also not very durable by todays standards they get brittle with age. The Series II cars and forward were switched to an Acrylic Enamel. Only the Silver and Dark Blue were "metallic" colors on the Series I cars - and thus the only one's to receive a clear coat. That was because the metallic particles mixed in the color coat could wind up on, or very near the surface of the enamel paint - that would leave them exposed to the atmosphere and leave a rough surface - so a clear coat was necessary to both seal the metallic particle in, and provide a smooth surface that could be polished etc. (this is no longer a problem with modern Acrylic Urethanes - they can be sprayed in a single stage without the need for a clear coat). If you are using a modern Acrylic Urethane Enamel (single stage-two component type paint).. there is no real "need" to clear coat it. However it can be clear coated to enhance gloss, allow higher degrees of buffing and many clear coats enhance UV protection. An Acrylic Urethane with a clear coat - you might call a "two step" pain job (I suppose). But don't confuse that with a "two stage" paints. With two stage paints a color coat is applied, and it usually sprays out semi-gloss to semi-flat, then the second stage is to spray on a catalyzing top coat - that chemically bonds with the color coat - and leaves a high gloss surface. I used PPG's - Deltron DBU (Deltron Base Urethane) on my 904 White 72 - everything is a trade-off of some type. My painter likes this product, has been using it for decades - it holds up well in the Florida Sun, and in case of an accident, it's a little easier to spot or blend in. My white 72 is my main "driver" in that I drive it to most Z Car Events, and on longer road trips. It isn't a Concours restoration... See: <a href=http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmHome.asp TARGET=NEW> PPG's Auto Refinish Page</a> FWIW, Carl B.

What engine are you talking about? What cam, what head work etc etc.. Carl B.