Carl Beck

Hello Wizard... Let's go back to the beginning on this. First - if your throw-out bearing is making noise - that's nothing unusual. There is no reason that you can't drive the car with it making noise. If it is the throw-out bearing, it's mostly noisy when you have the clutch pedal to the floor. (clutch disengaged). Driven with some common sense, a Z will run several thousand miles with a noisy throw-out bearing. (I drove one back and forth across America that way). Second - If you want to know what year engine you have - look on the block, just below the #5 and #6 spark plugs - and tell us what the Engine Serial Number is.. it will begin with L28- if it's a 280Z or ZX engine. Third - You have reported conflicting information related to your trip to the Auto Parts Store. At Your Post #9 - you wrote that they needed to know if the kit was for 8/12 or the 9/12 width. Then at Your Post #12 you said they showed you kits for for like 81/2 and/or 91/2. A kit for "81/2" - would mean either a 1981 or 1982 280ZX and a kit for "91/2" would be for a 1991 or 1992 300ZX. That is hugely different than saying/writing 8/12 or 9/12. The bottom line is - you need to buy a clutch kit for a 75 though 83 280Z/ZX. They are all the same today. You can not use a clutch kit for a 91 nor 82 300ZX, nor a 280Z/ZX 2+2, nor a Turbo. (unless you find when you open it up - that the flywheel is indeed one out of a 2+2). Either you aren't paying close attention to what they are telling you at the Parts Store - or you are getting confused on the way home. Contrary to the general advice so far - I would not recommend that you attempt to change the throw-out bearing and clutch by yourself at this time. Based on the explanation of your present situation, and given your very limited mechanical experience, an attempt at this task would take you at least a week and maybe two - to successfully complete the job, if you had everything you needed in terms of tools and work area. You would need: 1. A good basic set of hand tools (including a good pipe wrench) 2. A Torque Wrench - and the knowledge to use it 3. A Good Hydraulic Jack - both to get the car up on the jack stands and to hold the transmission 4. 4 Good Large Jack Stands - tall enough to allow you to get under the car and drop the tranny. 5. Yes - the clutch alignment tool is a must 6. Something to drive back and forth to the Parts Store/Machine Shop to drop off and pick up the flywheel. 7. A drop light.. you'll be working far into the nights 8. The service manuals that show you how to do this job 9. Several days - during which you will be frantically and frustratingly Posting Panic Requests for HELP to this forum - and waiting on replies.... every step of the way. You would also need to know how to handle rusted nuts, bolts and possible broke studs. As you'll have to drop/move the exhaust system. How to bleed the clutch master and slave (if the slave pops a seal when removed). If you plan to drain the transmission fluid and then refill - you'll need the pipe wrenches mentioned above - if you have any hope of getting the fill plug out, and maybe a propane torch... Drive the car to work - save some money and have the job done. Or find the local Z Club in your area - and get some experienced help. FWIW - just my best advice... good luck Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: With E-Bay you never know... but the seller said he's spent $25K so far.. and when you try to dump a "Project Car" you are lucky to get 50% of what you paid. So - what we have here - is a hybrid-Z with about $17K of new and otherwise hard to find parts - no longer a Stock example of the Fairlady.....and it doesn't sound like he still has the original L20 engine. The Ad says "Datsun Z-Series 240-Z", but it isn't. It's a Nissan Fairlady Z. People with serious money to spend usually don't want a Project... they buy finished examples, and when your talking twenty grand - that will buy some pretty nice finished examples. People willing and able to do the project themselves, usually don't want to put too much cash in up front - because they know they'll need to spend at least twice the selling price - to finish the car. They also know that when it's finished - it might be their dream Z - but no one else will want to pay what they did.... The market for Right Hand Drive cars here in the US is somewhat limited. Everyone likes to look at them, but very few people really want to own one - unless they have another Left Hand Drive car to drive, or unless they can pick one up for a song. While we see 29 bids from about 7 different bidders - we also see all but two of them drop out of the bidding at at $6,800.00. I really can't see the bidding on this going much over $12K... we'll have to wait and see... this might be the dream Z for the last two bidders - or one may still be waiting until the last seconds to bid... but we'll most likely see the individual parts brought back to E-Bay if the car does sell for anything over $12K. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Pretty easy to find used - and pretty easy to refinish them to as new condition. They are actually a composite wood fiber and fiberglass material - so you just sand them down lightly and refinish with varnish... Members here have documented the process... If someone here doesn't offer to sell you one - check E-Bay there are usually a few there. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: 1. Yes - that is a very rare - Nissan Supplied and Dealer Installed hood scoop. Done only as a last resort to the cars with chronic operational problems... after all other "fixes" for the emissions carb.'s had been tired. 2. Rick - the Dealer would be fined heavily, and could lose their Dealer License if they removed or modified any emissions systems on cars they sold. So they aren't going to change the carb's on that car. The Federal laws apply to both the manufacturer and their Authorized Dealers.... 3. If the floorboards/undercarriage checks out to be truly rust free and damage free - $10K for that car would be a bargain today. Add up the cost of the bumpers, chrome/stainless/emblems etc, interior, engine detailing, new paint and you are over $10K now... the car is free. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

HI Steve (everyone) As per the earlier discussions on this subject - it would appear that the most common high pressure gas shocks - will in effect raise the rid height of a 240-Z between 1/2 to 3/4 inches. We had both the OEM US Spec. Springs and the Euro Spec. Stage I springs reproduced this past year, with the help of Courtesy Nissan. When people started reporting that their 240-Z's were sitting noticeably higher after installing the springs with new shocks... I had both the reproduction OEM U.S. Spec. and Euro Spec. springs measured for spring rate and free length by a professional racing shop (because they had the proper equipment to do it).... they were exactly the same as the NOS Nissan Springs used as the models. That same shop reported that when they measured the gas pressure shocks - they found that the shocks off loaded "about " 100 lbs from the springs. (I'd have to go back and look up the exact amounts). Just how long the newer gas pressure shocks will hold that rate, once they are in use is still to be determined. A couple of the people that have installed the Euro Spec Springs, simply cut a coil and half off them prior to installation - and they report that that the ride height of their Z's came out close to stock. The ride and handling were much improved. (of course you'd expect that with new springs and shocks compared to 30+ year old units). The set up's on my cars - are all older design spec.'s - and no longer available today. I have Bilstein Gas Shocks on my Blue 72 - I installed them around 1975 and they are still the best shocks I've ever had on 240-Z, that was used for both street and track. On the White 72 that I use mostly for longer road trips (GT use) - I have stock springs and the older gas pressure KYB's from about three years ago. They provide a nice "stock" feel. This car only has about 73K miles on it now - rides/drives like a new 240-Z. The older KYB's didn't see to have the "lift effect" that the newer one's do. Of course the BRE Baja Z had the Nissan Competition adjustable coil-overs, with gas pressure shocks. It sits about 2 1/2 inches higher than stock, and can be lowered to about 1/2 lower than stock. I think that today - if I were looking for a performance oriented setup for use both on the street and track.... I'd go with adjustable coil-overs. They offer the advantages of having many different spring rates available, adjustable ride height and more clearance for wider wheels/tires. The disadvantage is of course cost and the amount of work required. It would seem that our selection of more or less "stock" shock replacements is very limited at this point. But the Euro Spec. Springs do offer a bit firmer ride/handling, without being "bone jarring" - if that's what you want. Cutting a coil and half off their free length prior to installation with the newer higher gas pressure shocks is reported to be a pretty good compromise all things considered. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: According to the Factory Spec.'s - you should have 6.34 inches between the ground, and the front frame rail - measured at the seam where the floorboard section meets the firewall section. Running 195HR70x14's that are pretty close to the original wheels/tires in diameter... If you measure from the bottom of the rocker-panel, where the half circle is cut out to indicate the front jacking point - you should have 8.5 inches. At the back of the rocker-panel, measured where the dog-leg meets the rocker - you should have 8.5 inches. If you do have the measurements above - and you measure the front wheel arch - the part of the innermost semicircle closest to the top of the tire - you should have 26 5/8's inches. On the rear wheel arch - you should have 26 1/2... As you can see - the 240-Z's had plenty of ground clearance to begin with... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Chris: Thanks for letting us know. As Carl was IZCC Member #8648, and made Posts to our Z Car List - I'll let the subscribers there know as well. 54 is so young.... regards, Carl B.

Hi Stephen (everyone) I have the book about William R. Gorham, both in hard copy and I downloaded the digital copy as well. If you are interested in the history of Nissan, and the growth and development of the Japanese auto industry - it's a great book to read. Originally written in Japan, by the Japanese engineers, coworkers and friends of Mr. Gorham, it has been translated into English, and the digital publication supported by his family. They wanted the world to know of the great contributions he made to Japanese industrial development. Most of the books written about the Z Cars - at least mention the fact that Nissan licensed auto designs and production rights from the English Austin company after WW-II - however most Z Car fan's are unaware of Mr. Gorham's extensive contributions to Nissan's growth and development. His Son, was at the National Z Car Convention this year as well. It's relatively inexpensive and a good read... also shows the long term friendship and cooperation between the US and Japan prior to 'WW-II. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: I have been contacted and "corrected" by Mr. Ron Johnson... Ron retired from Nissan Motors USA .. Competition Parts Dept.. acouple years ago. Ron was following this thread and had discussed this subject with Chris earlier... I first meet Ron in 1972 or 73 when I worked for a Datsun Dealer... so I have a lot of faith in his memory and subject knowledge. He has been a huge source of information related to the very early days at Datsun Competition Parts Dept. and Mortorsports Dept. here in the USA.... 1. Ron states that he is certain, Nissan USA did not supply any white bodies prior to the 10 280ZX's. To his knowledge all 240-Z's raced in the USA were built from production cars - with VIN's. 2. Ron states that "white bodies" were pulled off the production lines prior to receiving a chassis/body stamped VIN's. Bare bodies were sent to the production lines, then matched up with a Build Sheet.. and only after their future was defined by the build sheet - did the VIN's get stamped into them... So Alan's reasoning seems to be on the money... ie "this body shell IS RLS30 00017"... So "white bodies" were pulled at the end of the body shell line - but prior to going to the final assembly lines. 3. Ron tells me the correct term is "Dollar" not "penny" cars - for the production cars sold to the teams. Ron is convinced that RLS30 00017 had to be a regular production car - stripped down by someone. It is possible that BSR stripped it down to have a spare body ready when needed for SCCA or IMSA competition in these days... FWIW... Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: Looking over the offerings for Datsun 240-Z's - the prices seem quite reasonable. (if the cars actually check out to be as advertised.. and we know that doesn't happen often). Nonetheless - prices there in Australian Dollars, would seem to be close to what they are here in the States in US Dollars... for like condition cars. It takes $12K to $15K today to buy a very nice, properly refreshed or low mileage original 240-Z. You'd spend two to three times that much trying to build a show quality car here now.. Given the fact that only just over 1% of the Datsun 240Z's built, were sent to Australia... it would seem that the value of the few remaining in good stock condition would be much higher there. They must be super rare by now... There are not too many true Classic Cars - that you can purchase so reasonably today and drive with such reliability. I'd grab a good one while you still can at such reasonable prices... they are bound to go much higher over the next five years. I'd go look that Burnt Orange car over that Gav. mentioned... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Ryan: I've tried to answer most of your questions - by writing some articles on various subjects. They are on the Internet Z Car Club's (IZCC) "Home Page" at ZHome.com See: <a href=http://zhome.com/Classic/CommonZRust/RustPrevention240Z.htm TARGET=NEW> For Common Rust Area's</a> and a discussion of them. My best advice is to shop, shop, and shop some more... look very closely at several 240-Z's, and keep notes about what you find on the various cars... Then go take out a loan if necessary - and buy a truely good, solid, all stock example. Today if you shop enough in Texas you should be able find one in the $5K to $7K range. That car you can actually drive and preserve... Instead of saving pennies per month to put into the car along with all the hours of work it takes.... spend the same time working for CASH to pay for a good car to start with. In the end - you'll be FAR better off and you'll have far less money in the car... In my humble opinion the ONLY people that should start with a 240-Z worth $2K - are people with enough financial resources to spend an additional $25K in cash, on it within a year or two. - and who simply love doing the restoration process themselves.... If you want a car to drive and enjoy, don't even think about attempting a refresh nor restoration process on a shoe string... it will lead to total frustration and a financial burden you can't bear... At any rate - you have very good taste in Classic Cars... FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Ric: Wait long enough to find and buy a good one... shop, shop, shop... The 240-Z has been my automotive love now for 36 years. Bought my first one in March of 1970, then my second one in Dec. of 71.... still have it to this day. The Z has been more about "beauty", "fun" and "utility" than performance, at least to me. Of course part of its beauty is its overall performance as a Sports/GT... I'd still rather drive a 240-Z Coast to Coast than any other car... hope you find a good one... good luck, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Dan: Most likely is the original engine. Engine numbers for 03/72 seem to run from L24-90xxx though early L24-95xxx. Chassis numbers from HLS30 71xxx into HLS30 75xxx O4/72 HLS30-75xxx though HLS30-80xxx and engines L24-95xxx into L24-80xxx. FWIW, Carl

Hi Chris/Alan: Alan ask me about white bodies several years ago. Last year Andy F. ask me about RLS30 00017. At first there was some confusion about it being "HLS30 00017".. which of course it could not have been, as we know John has that one.... RLS30 00017 makes sense.. We do know that the OMS Pace Car for 74 was RLS30 00020 and it was prepared for Pace Car duties at BRE. I'll see if I can get some more info related to the build of that Pace Car.. The advantage was not having to strip a production car of it's paint and sound proofing, prior to seam welding, plus being far less expensive from Nissan's perspective would make it worth while to ship a bare body rather than a penny car. So I would say a "white body" is a "white body" regardless if it had a VIN or not. It was really it's state of completion and purpose that mattered - (yes/no?) Perhaps Nissan didn't stamp VIN's into the Second Gen. cars... based on some bad experience from the First.. "THE VIN" per Federal and most State Laws is the one that can be seen through the windshield. All the other matching numbers stamped in the sheetmetal or printed on stickers.... are simply "references to" the car they originally came on. Perfectly legal to take any parts or components off a Junk Yard Car - and put them on your car... (just keep the bill of sale for them to be safe). No Federal law against it - the Federal law only makes swapping VIN's to defraud - conducted across State Lines illegal. Federal laws do not prevent the private repair of a privately owned car, using the proper used parts. (emission laws still apply etc.). Florida allows full chassis swaps on unibody cars - and has a written procedure that outlines what you have to do - in effect a Florida Law Enforcement Officer (State, County, City) has to be present when you remove the Dash VIN from the car - and he has to be present when you put it back in .... Florida only uses the VIN numbers stamped into the body - to identify stolen cars or parts from stolen cars. It's required to be there when the car is produced - by Federal Law, to reduce auto theft. When I ask the DMV about swapping the metal stampings on uni-bodies - the response was that there was no law against it - Putting a false ID on the car to cover a stolen car would be against the law... ie with intent to cover a theft or to defraud in some manor. The Florida Trooper at the DMV did mention that Florida Law does outline how commercial body shops can, or must, repair your car... but nothing to say they can't use junk yard parts with your permission... just that they have to be installed per the Factory Recommended Procedures... May be other tricky questions of law there somewhere... for which some set of circumstances could be outlined - - - but if your doing everything on the up and up it shouldn't be a problem. I don't see why it would be cut in thirds... the rocker panels hold the structures together along with the roof. If you cut the old floorboards out - to replace them with after-market stamping... it would seen to be far less work to just cut the entire panel out....total length of cutting/welding would be less wouldn't it? Fitting the aftermarket parts in requires welding them back to what's left of center console metal... that what?... 48 inches front to rear on both side... the remaining center console is only about 24" wide at the front and rear - plus the joining parts already had a mating lip... Full floor pan replacements in the old VW Bugs are very common...(because the parts are still available from aftermarket suppliers) The Part you show - is a standard Nissan Replacement Part - listed in the Parts Catalogs..and rusted floorboards have always been a problem with the first generation Z's... ASSY-FLOOR FRONT 74300-E4600.......thru 74300-N3350 Sounds quite possible - but then, no reason to think that a "white body" could not have a VIN.. just because the Second Generation white bodies did not. Alan's observations about the condition of the wiring harness loops not being bent - etc are significant... Wonder how much seam sealer was in that car??? FWIW, Carl

Sent twice.. oops..

Hi Dan: What is the Engine Serial Number?... I'm guessing it's very close too or below L24-95xxx Looks like the car is more likely 03/72. 03 Cars went into the low 75000 range.. Carl

I did. But it was worded poorly enough to read either way ;-) Carl

add: Wrong Dash All the parts that should be Bright Yellow Cad plated - look to have been painted silver... uck Pin Striping on hood.. uck.. we could go on and on.... Bottom line.... it's a very nice #3 car. Should sell for between $16K and $19K in Texas... a couple grand more back East... FWIW, Carl B.

I know that one of them originated there - the second one was a private sale, and I'm not sure where it originated. I've seen more extremely low mileage 10th AE's than any other type of special interest Z. Seems a lot of people kept them as future collectibles. Carl B.

14 plus 14 is still 28 isn't it ?... Carl B.

At least two different 10th AE's with less than a thousand miles and in pristine condition - were worth $28K to at least two different buyers within the last two years. (about what they cost when new). FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Very interesting. I do not know, or did not know... that one could order a complete body shell for the 66 Datsun Station-wagon through a local Datsun Dealer. Too bad the original paperwork wasn't kept with the body. Nissan Motors USA, did though their Datsun Competition Department supply "white bodies" and "penny cars" for the factory sponsored, or factory supported race teams here in the USA. A "white body" was a bare body shell, sprayed with only a white primer/paint (actually a very thin coat of paint to prevent rust). I have been told by various members of various race teams that the white bodies had no chassis numbers. However I have also been told by one of the people that bought a white body a few years ago that it did have a chassis number... 00017. So who knows?? The "penny cars" were regular production cars supplied to the race teams for use in competition. They were sold by Nissan, to the race team for one penny, so ownership would transfer and with it the liability that could be incurred. Here in the States, roadster bodies, 510 bodies and Z bodies were all supplied as either "white bodies" and/or "penny cars" to the competitors. It was a contract violation, as well as a breach of Federal Law if any of the white bodies or penny cars were re-sold to the general public for road use, or titled for sale. Normally ownership was held on the Manufacture's Statement of Origin (MSO). FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

When the seller states "complete respray, including jam's, hatch, etc."... then shows pictures of the mess left in the engine bay - it should raise a large RED FLAG. The car might be worth $5K at this point... but IMHO it's already been bid up why who knows who - to well above it's value. Private Auctions are an invitation to join in the fraud as far as I'm concerned. In my opinion, no one that knows anything about 240-Z's would give this offering a second look. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Gee... I hate to see a 240-Z taken out like that... I agree with most others .... putting the work, time and money into swapping the 240-Z parts into a 280Z body - simply isn't worth it. The 280Z body is heavier and the L24 will feel pretty weak pulling it around. If you ever did need/or want to resell it - I think you'd have a hard time finding a willing buyer unless you wanted to give it away.... Pass on the 280Z and find a good Series I body.... regards, Carl B.

Hi Arne (everyone): Just a minor point of clarification.. Lets say that the OEM Stock springs are 14 inches free length, and have an installed height of 9 inches. The springs are pre-loaded, ie. partially compressed when installed on the struts (why you need a spring compressor to remove/install them). After being compressed to aprox 80% of their free length - their spring rate is pretty constant - lets just say 82 lbs per inch for the stock front.... It is possible that aftermarket springs had their spring rates adjusted to compensate for the lift provided by gas pressure shocks - but that would mean lower spring rates would be used, which is not normally the case for after-market springs. It is more probable that that after-market springs had their free length/installed height adjusted to compensate for the additional lift of the gas pressure shocks. So we may need to shorten the OEM and Euro Spec. springs when used with gas pressure shocks.. FWIW, Carl B.