Carl Beck

Hi Alan (everyone): I believe there are many reasons for that situation and it's not really advertising copy nor sales flannel from Nissan. Rather it was started with the first books written on the subject of the Z Car - many by English authors, who read a lot of the stories reported by the American Magazines and blended that with a dose of British destain for the Japanese Auto Industry. From it's beginning the Japanese Auto Industry has been very closely linked to both the US and British Auto Industry. Japan started well behind either of the two countries - and in an effort to modernize they sought the technology and designs from the more advanced nations. A quick review of DAT/Datson/Nissan/Datsun's progression may give a clue as to why so many authors believed that most of the things coming from Nissan were copies of everyone else products and/or the work of hired designers, produced by machine tooling and technologies imported from GB and the USA. Indeed when they needed to start production of vehicles to supply Japan in 1925 - they invited the American Automobile Manufacturers to build plants in Japan. Then once they had the technology, the manufacturing processes, machine tools and a trained work force - they kicked the American manufactures out... This was seen by many as an all to typical and deceptive move by the Japanese. The fact that Nissan re-labeled the designs and entire products of others as "Nissan" made them appear less than forth coming to eyes in the Western world. With designs purchased, licensed or simply borrowed Nissan consistently presented an image of itself that many in the auto industry found downright misleading. (see 1937 in the summary for example). This explains to a large degree why so many were quick to believe the Goertz Myth.. They simply did not see the revolution within Nissan that was taking place from 1965 forward. What follows is my abbreviated summary - of the summary in Appendix B of: THE GRAHAM LEGACY; Graham-Page from 1932 by: Michael Keller Appendix B: by Bill McCall (covers the Nissan Motors connection) for those interested it's a good read.. you can order a copy from Amazon.com 1912 - Satoro Hashimoto, upon his return to Japan from the U.S.A. - creates Kaishinsha Company to manufacture and sell D.A.T. automobiles. 1923 - the Great Earth Quake completely demolishes Japan's public transportation systems. American companies are subsequently invited to set up manufacturing facilities in Japan, by the Japanese Government. 1925 - At the invitation of the Japanese Government - Ford sets up production facilities in Yokohama.(average production 10,000 units per year). 1927 - At the invitation of the Japanese Government - GM set up production in Osaka (average production 10,000 units per year) 1927 - At the invitation of the Japanese Government - Chrysler had also set up a smaller assembly plant in Japan. 1931 - Tabata Imono Group purchases Kaishinsha - and starts production of Son of DAT -DATSON. A copy of the British Austin 7 1931 - Japanese Army invades Manchuria. Army realizes they must have durable trucks. and buys them from US manufacturers. Later in the war Nissan will open production facilities in Manchuria with slave labor. 1933 - Reorganization results in "Nissan Motors" formation. This industry leader in Japan sold 650 vehicles that year in Japan. Gisuke Aikawa, President of Nissan Motors , producing less than 500 vehicles that year - was eager to produce larger cars and trucks. Aikawa was already familiar with American technological abilities, having previously imported engineering expertise, as well as a considerable amount of American machinery and equipment for earlier manufacturing endeavors (prior to his assignment at Nissan). From the beginning of Nissan Motor Company Ltd. several American engineers, led by William R. Gorham, played key roles in developing Nissan's operations. 1933 - The War Ministry and Ministry of Commerce and Industry in Japan call for a partial nationalization of the Japanese automobile industry. 1935 - The Japanese politicians draft legislation to assure the success of domestic automobile manufacturers.. and drive the American firms out of Japan. (the Automobile Industry Control Law). 1936 - February. Joseph Graham, of Graham-Page Motors Corp., meets Gisuke Aikawa, President of Nissan Motors Ltd. in Japan for the first time. Mr. Graham was in Japan representing L.O.F. in which he was a major shareholder as well. During this meeting, Graham suggests that Graham-Page would be interested in providing designs and equipment to Nissan. The brief meeting between Graham and Aikiawa would lead too a far-reaching agreement between the two disparate auto makers. 1936 - April 20... Nissan and Graham-Page sign an agreement. Nissan purchases from Graham-Page: - the design and the entire production line for the complete line of the 1934 Graham Crusader. - all machinery, equipment, fixtures etc etc. for the Model 73 Engine - since the engine was no longer in production in the US - Graham-Page (GP) was to produce and completely assemble 4 test engines. - - GP to produce 500 cylinder blocks, 150 completely assembled, and the remainder in various stages of assembly. - GP to design and produce a prototype stake body, cab-over Truck, and provide Nissan with complete engineering drawings, parts lists and specifications needed by Nissan to produce the truck. - GP to provide technical assistance, engineering support to set up an operational production line. Nissan corporate records indicate that throughout the negotiations they felt the Graham-Page representatives were sincere and ethical in the business dealings,. Representatives of the Michigan firm exhibited no fear or hesitancy in regard to helping the Japanese establish and guide their new industry. While in the US - GP representatives introduced Nissan representatives to many of their prime suppliers. Deals were made with Spicer Manufacturing in Toledo, Ohio to supply Nissan with front and rear axles as well as transmissions, clutches and propeller shafts with universal joints. Nissan also contracted with Bohnalite to supply aluminium pistons. 1936 - May - Nissan began to set up an engine block production line. The firms initial attempts at casting engine blocks were totally unsuccessful. Multiple failures convinced Aikawa to once again seek outside help. Nissan contracted with Ferro Machine Casting Company. Nissan then purchased equipment needed to establish a new casting shop, and the American firm was farther required to instruct the Japanese engineers how to operate and maintain the new casting equipment. A team of six Ferro engineers and specialists were sent to Yokohama to assist Nissan with the start up. The single change Nissan made to the original Graham-Page design was superficial. The Ferro name and numbers were removed from the left side of the block and NISSAN was cast into the right side. Construction of the new casting facility was begun in the fall of 36 and completed in 37. The first block was cast on March 25th, 1937. 1937 - The complete Graham-Page assembly line, tooling, equipment, technical drawings arrive in Japan and are set up for Nissan's production of the Crusader. By March of 1937 Nissan had completed the manufacture of two Nissan Model 70 passenger sedan and one Model 80 Truck. By years end 490 automobiles were produced. To convince the Japanese military that they had the capacity to build sturdy and dependable trucks suitable for military use Nissan produced a 27 minute film to illustrate how the Model 80 Trucks were manufactured. Proudly in the film, the new Nissan factory is shown on the banks of Tokyo Bay, the interior scenes were of the design studio. The large studio contained full size drawings of the truck as well as clay models and wooden bucks; the clear impression to be drawn was that the truck was entirely of Nissan design. The next images revealed the research and quality control labs established by Graham-Page staff, the same impression intended. The foundry views showed a detailed progression of crankshaft manufacture, from forging to trimming to balancing. Engine blocks are shown being bored, heads planed and tolerances checked. Huge American made 1,500 ton Hamilton presses are shown pressing roof sections, fenders, hoods and frame rails. The engine that came to Nissan from Graham-Page, an 84HP, in-line, seven main bearing, 224cid six cylinder provided the heart of Nissan's commercial line for several decades, as well as the Japanese Army's Trucks. 1941 - Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, which ultimately leads to the total devastation of Japan. 1945 - Japan surrenders to the Allied Forces and General Douglas MacArthur assumes leadership of the country as Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers (SCAP). 1947 - Dr. E. Edwards Deming becomes Advisor in statistical quality control techniques to the SCAP. http://www.deming.org/theman/biography.html 1949 - Nissan receives permission from SCAP to resume production, Production of trucks using the Graham-Page engine (previously tab'd the model A by Nissan) are primary products. 1950 - At the invitation of the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers, Dr. Deming becomes Teacher and Consultant (1950, 51,52, 55, 60 and 1965) The Deming prize was instituted by the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers and is awarded each year in Japan to a statistician for contributions to statistical theory. The Deming prize for application is awarded to a company for improved use of statistical theory in organization, consumer research, design of product and production. { Dr. Deming becomes the recipient of the Second Order Medal of the Sacred Treasure, from the Emperor of Japan, 1960, for improvement of quality and of Japanese economy, through the statistical control of quality.} 1951 - Nissan introduces it's first four wheel drive vehicle - modeled after the US Jeep's and using the same Graham-Page engine the vehicle is known as the 4W-60 and the 4W-70. A similar but larger vehicle using the same engine was introduced in 52. The vehicles were the forerunners of the Nissan Patrol. 1953 - Minor changes to Nissan's "A" engine, increased HP to 95HP at 3,600RPM - this became the Nissan "N" engine. 1955 - Nissan hired American automotive engineer Donald D. Stone to increase the horsepower of the "N" engine. By increasing the bore and incorporating a few other changes he was able to produce a 242 cid engine with a 105HP rating. This engine was designated the "NC" engine and had an "L-head" design, it was used for four years by Nissan. 1957 - Mr. Kawamata, as President of Nissan Motors, outlined his Strategic Plan For Nissan's Growth by exporting cars to the USA. (as did most of the Japanese Auto Industry - it wasn't just Nissan). Nissan needed to move to mass production, so that unit prices could be brought down and a domestic auto market could be grown in Japan. - - - - - -end summary -- - By the way - Mr. Gorham, Mr. Graham and Dr. Deming are all highly regarded in the Japanese Auto Industry to this day - and that is not just another American bias. I wonder, in your review of the books and articles wrtten by the Japanese authors - how many of them write about these men and their contributions to Nissan. While Mr Hiroshi Iida may well outline in his book - how he designed the Nissan L series engine - the simple fact that it was seen by most as an all but exact copy of the MB/Prince design - could be the reason most authors didn't bother to look for who within Nissan was responsible for the copy, but knowing Nissan's past practices - they simply stated that they saw it as a copy. Perhaps - if Mr. Lida has outlined what parts of his design were awarded patients - that perception of it being a copy could be over-come. FWIW Carl

Hi Victor (everyone) Gee - I had to go back and look at that Graphic... the dividing line is 1964, yes prior to the Prince Merger that started in 65 and was finalized by Jan. 66, - - but if you read the accompanying article - at the end of 64 was when Goertz left Nissan and the Nissan 2000GT/Yamaha A550X joint project was canceled by Nissan. I think you might have confused "Nissan's entire history" with the progression of the design of Nissan's line of sports cars. The graphic has to do with the sports cars design... OR - from your statement, should I guess that you DO belive Mr. Goertz is the original designer of the Datsun 240-Z? In effect, that design wasn't thrown in the dumpster, but rather carried forward by Mr. Matsuo???? I guess that is possible - Mr. Matsuo tells us that he was originally thinking of another 4cylinder sports car and many would argue that his initial concept drawings do look more than a little like the Yamaha A550X. According to Mr. Matsuo he never had seen anything related to that previous design effort.... thus the Nissan trash bin. If nothing from the previous effort was used - where else would it go? The Z Car most certainly did kill the roadsters as well. The graphic is really intended to convey an overall concept that Nissan made a major break with the past, when they reorganized their internal design department beginning with 1965. Farther to show that with the introduction of the Datsun 510 and then followed by the Z Car - Nissan was also building a huge marketing and distribution system to support US Sales by 1970. Nissan actually began to gather customer requirements for US customers in 1958. Below is part of a summary I drafted from among other places from the book: NISSAN/DATSUN A History Of Nissan Motor Corporation in U.S.A 1960-1980 by John B. Rae. Mr. Rae worked closely with Nissan Executives in Japan and Nissan's Historian as he worked on this book. - - - - - part of summary ....starts... 1957 - Mr. Kawamata, as President of Nissan Motors, outlined his Strategic Plan For Nissan's Growth by exporting cars to the USA. (as did most of the Japanese Auto Industry - it wasn't just Nissan). Nissan needed to move to mass production, so that unit prices could be brought down and a domestic auto market could be grown in Japan. Nissan makes a survey of American market prospects through two of its major Japanese trading corporations, Marubeni and Mitsubishi. In November of 57 Mr. Wakatsuki of Marubeni suggests that Nissan show its cars at the L.A. Import Auto Show in 58. 1958 - Mr. Yutaka Katayama, a Marketing Manager for Nissan Motors suggests and gains approval to enter Datsuns in the Moble Gas - Round Australia Trials. Finishing first in Class the little Datsuns draw world wide attention as well as add encouragement to Nissan's Export goals. 1958 March - In anticipation of sales to the US - Nissan sends Mr. Uno, General Manager of the North American Department, Mr. Hara, General Manager of the Planning Department and several engineers to the United States to initiate arrangements for testing Datsun cars and dealing with whatever technical problems that might come up. {Mr. Hara, later becomes Head of Nissan Design, and in 65 Mr. Matsuo's boss} 58 Oct. - Ray Lemke of San Diego, California becomes the first Datsun Dealer in the USA when he accepts a Datsun as part of his consignment of German cars from his Distributor, Woolverton Motors. 58 Nov. - Koichi Iwata of Nissan's Export Department brings two cars and a pick-up truck to the L.A. International Auto Show. The vehicles were modified in the hope of making them more suitable to the American market - compression was raised to 7.5:1 giving them 37HP from the 988cc OHV engine. (this was the British Austin engine). Iwata, attending that show - reports back to Kawamata (President of Nissan) that the cars are TOOO SLOW and UNDERPOWERED for AMERICA... Kawamata and other Nissan executives are shocked to hear that!! Iwata's report results in the formation of a "Special Project Team" to study changes in design needed to make Datsuns more suitable for the American and European markets. This Study and Planning, Iwata observes, was a very significant beginning. Much of the success of Nissan and other Japanese automobile manufacturers in the United States has been due to their willingness to study and respond to the conditions of the American market. Nissan far more than others except Volkswagon, grasp the seemingly elementary principle that if they wanted to sell cars in America, then they had better find out what kind of cars American's wanted to buy, and design and build accordingly. - - - end summary extract.......... The "capabilities" and "accomplishments" of Nissan Motors Ltd. are really founded far more upon building manufacturing facilities, controlling production processes and marketing products though distribution and service systems, than it is based on the original technology or design of their previous products, many of which were licensed copies of others or outright purchase of the designs of others. Where designs were not licensed nor purchased - far too many were as g72s20 originally said; " "combinations of "inspiration" and economic pragmatism."" FWIW, Carl

I don't see anything - what did you do yesterday? thanks, Carl

Hi Guys: "Does body filler bond better to metal or an epoxy primer?" - Really isn't the question most of us should ask - is it? It would appear that it did bond well to the epoxy... and we know that if properly applied, to a properly prepared surface - the epoxy primers bond well enough to metals. I think the question we would want to ask is - "what is the best practice, or the best process to use if we want the results of our work (or dollars spent) to last the longest.?" No matter what they name it (Metall etc) - nor what they call it (Metal reinforced, fiber reinforced, etc)- all modern two part body fillers are in fact man made plastic products. If they are two part compounds, one part being the resin and the other being the hardner... once you mix them together a chemical action is started and it never really stops until the plastic compounds fall apart again (granted that may be 20 or 30 years later...). If you put any plastic filler on bare sheet metal - because the plastic compound keeps drying and drying (hardening) it will draw moisture out of the air and though the sheet-metal. Sheet metal is very porous and as rust forms on it and the oxidation process proceeds, the metal becomes even more porous. As the body fillers draw moisture though the metal - they swell and that is why body fillers bubble up under your paint a year or three years later; especially if the opposite side of the sheet metal can not be properly sealed somehow. All plastic body fillers should only be applied on top of something that seals the metal from the filler. Epoxy primers will do that... so a thin layer of plastic filler, applied on top of the epoxy primers is prevented from drawing moisture through the sheet metal - and if it's then sealed from the top - with a sealer, or epoxy primer, or the final coats of paint - it should be fine for many years... The more time you can allow between applying the plastic body fillers - and performing the final sanding and paint application - the better. That gives the body filler more time to dry and shrink before it's under the final paint coats. I believe that the bottom line is - putting plastic body fillers directly on bare metal should be avoided at all costs. FWIW Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

I don't ever remember receiving "just plain steel" bolts, screws, nuts or washers - when I ordered OEM Nissan parts. They have always been either zinc or Cad. plated from Nissan. Both zinc and cad. plating are sacrifice coatings - meanin that they are sacrificed in order to save the original metal and it's strength. After 30+ years you can or should expect the plating on all the fasteners to have seriously degraded. Once you clean them up - all the original plating is GONE - and if you don't paint or re-plate them at that point - they will form rust quickly. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://Zhome.com

Am I thinking of this correctly? When I think of a "taller gear" - I'm thinking of lower numerical ratio.... ie. a 3.364:1 is a taller gear than a 3.7:1 - right? If so - then the 81/83 transmission has a 0.745:1 fifth gear, and the 80 transmission has 0.773:1 fifth gear. So fifth gear in the 80 transmission is NOT taller than the 81/83. I'd leave the stock 3.364 in the car if you like lower rev.'s and better highway fuel mileage, or put the 3.545 R180 out of the 80ZX in.... for a little better off the line performance and still acceptable highway mileage. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Visit the Z Car Home Page at: http://ZHome.com For example: <a href=http://zhome.com/Classic/CommonZRust/RustPrevention240Z.htm TARGET=NEW>Common Rust Area's of The 240-Z </a> FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Sad - it is water under the bridge at this point - however for the benefit of others that might have the misfortune to follow ... iMHO you made two serious errors here: 1) the CA Bureau of Automotive Repair recommended that you go to the shop and DEMAND your Car - you did not do as they directed; rather you keep insisting on a completion date...da.... 2) You have dealt with this person for 11 months - knowing how he acts, I believe any reasonable person would have a) contacted the Police FIRST and ask that an officer accompany you to the shop - per the CA BAR's directions and had your Attorney accompany you and the Police Officer to the shop... I truly belive that if you had your attorney with you - and had you demanded the return of your car - you would have been taking it home, instead of getting the legal run-around from Cops that don't know the law, nor care about your rights. In effect - the cop that showed up didn't want to get involved, because he wasn't sure what the law was - and he brushed the situation off to someone else or some civil action.... Had your attorney been present to inform the Police Office as to what the law was - and as an officer of the court demanded the Police Officer do his duty... your car would be home and you would be done with the situation. OK - so what to do now. Call a Lawyer... he will call the Sheriff's office and rent a deputy.. then go with you to shop and get your car. If the lawyer you call doesn't suggest that course of action - ask him for another lawyers name - one that likes to fight for their clients... Just my opinion... Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

See the Z Car Home Page of course: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SpindlePinTool.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SpindlePinTool.htm</a> FWIW Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi RAZ1: I don't think Steve has proven Mark wrong - so much as he has had fun building a conversation piece. Getting a 3 SU set-up to work with an in-line six isn't all that difficult, indeed it was standard on some of the earlier Jags. for a brief period. Getting it to work better than, and/or add performance to, was the real question. Jag dropped the 3 SU set up because it didn't work better and it did add a level of difficulty to the tuning process. The problem with the triple SU set-up had to do with maintaining an even flow of air/fuel mix to each cylinder, as it was needed through the intake runners. Because of the firing order and timing of intake valve opening/closings.. the two SU set up does a better job than the three SU set up. Because the stock two SU's will supply all the air/fuel that an L24/L28 can use - adding the third SU really adds nothing. The triple Side Drafts, give you the ability to tune each cylinder individually and feed all equal amounts of air/fuel mix... without the conflicting intake pulses present in the triple SU set up. Mark explained it this way: With the dual SU manifold the air / fuel distribution is poor because the runner lengths are different. Datsun worked their butts off to try and compensate for this and really did a pretty good job (you should see how bad some of the British stuff is). The advantage of the dual manifold is that the pulsations come in even periods. Let me try to put this visually; 1---\ \ 2------- 103020103020 / 3---/ A "0" represents a "dead" time slice, a time when none of the cylinders fed by this manifold are in the intake phase. Any other number indicates the cylinder which is in the intake phase. 4---\ \ 5------- 050604050604 / 6---/ As you can see the pulse pattern is very even, being one time slice on, then one time slice off. This means that each cylinder is pulling on a column of air/fuel (what is contained in the manifold) with about the same velocity, because each cylinder is preceded by the same length of "dead" time in the manifold. This promotes all sorts of positive effects, and keeps air speed in the manifolds fairly constant. It limits the amount of "flow reversal" that can take place by limiting the length of "dead time" in each manifold. These effects are mitigated to some degree by the differences in individual runner lengths and by the distances from the main plenum of each manifold to each intake valve. But all in all this manifold and firing order do work fairly well together. Now here is the pattern for a triple SU set up; 1--\ --- 100020100020 2--/ 3--\ --- 003004003004 4--/ 5--\ --- 050600050600 6--/ You can see from this that the front and rear manifolds have uneven pulsations. 3 time slices off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on. This means that the cylinder that opens after the 3-time-slices-off "dead" period, will be pulling on a much slower column of air/fuel than the other cylinder will. This will cause those cylinders (#'s 2 & 5) to run a little leaner and their counterparts (#'s 1 & 6) to run a little richer. The reason for this is that air reacts to changes in velocity more quickly than the fuel does. Since the air/fuel mix in the manifold has 3 time slices to slow down before cylinders 2 & 5 draw on it, it will be slower for them and as it tries to speed up again, the air will respond more quickly and get to the cylinder slightly sooner that the fuel. By then the intake stroke for these cylinders will be ending, the extra fuel meant for these cylinders will stack up in the manifold and then cylinders 1 & 6 will open. They will be opening to a fast moving, extra rich, mixture. (On some 4 cyl motors this phenomenon is so bad that the engine idles on only two of the cylinders if the mixture is not within range). The center manifold is different, however, its pulsation pattern is even, with 2 off time slices followed by 1 on time slice. each cylinder will be pulling on a column of air/fuel with about the same velocity, but thatvelocity will be fairly low due to the fact that twice as much time is spent "off" as is spent "on". So the triple SU manifolding has three basic problems; First, the pulsing patterns are not the same for all manifolds and, Second, the outer manifolds will have distribution problems caused by uneven pulse patterns and, Third, the center manifold will suffer from reduced velocity. The third problem is the least important of the three and is true for triple Mikuni's as well (in fact they suffer from a 5:1, off to on, ratio). I would not be concerned about this except as it relates to the behavior of the outer manifolds. The solution for the outer manifold's distribution problems is probably going to be similar to what was done for the British 4 cyl, siamesed engines. The runners of the manifold were "aimed" at the lean running cylinders slightly. This helped to overcome the distribution bias that was created by the uneven pulsing. I am not sure how well this would work on the Z motor, but on MGB's it helped quite a bit. It didn't eliminate the problem, but it did significantly reduce it. The last problem, that of the manifolds not all having the samepulse patterns is not soluble except by altering the firing order. But by ameliorating the negative effects of this, we can to some degree cancel the problem out. If the manifolding is done well it will be equal to, or slightly better than the stock manifold for distribution, but will increase flow. If runner and plenum size is kept small enough to keep air velocities up, the drivability and throttle response should be better than a dual set up. Anyway, there's something for all you triple SU freaks to chew on for a while. You could solve all these problems by going to 6 of the 1.25" (32mm) SU's you know. :-) - - - - - end quote from Mark - - - - - FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Jon (everyone) Keith Thomas said that when they put the L24's on the dyno - they found that they lost HP with timing advanced much past 32/33 degrees total. They'll take 35/36 but it wasn't the best HP producer... Lets all keep in mind that it isn't just total advance that you want to control - it's the total timing curve over the RPM range... which in many cases means you start with the timing curve dialed into the distributor... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I'll be leaving Clearwater around 2:00AM Friday morning...and should get to the Atlanta area sometime before noon Friday. I'll be stopping by Sunbelt/Balanced Performance to have the tranny in my Z swapped with a rebuilt... and should get to Road Atlanta Friday afternoon.. The Georgia Z Car will have a coral set up in the in-field.. gather Z's there and we can all meet up. I'll be driving my white 72... see ya there... Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Just a comment.. If I'm following this correctly - TBK1 has a 77 280Z with the L26. Glenn72 has a 72 240-Z with an L28. The tach's in the 70-73 240-Z's function via an inductive loop, but the tach's in the 280Z's use a negative coil trigger. So the tach hook-up's will be different between the two... I think that the 240-Z's were equipped with an Amp Meter - and the 280Z's used a Volt Meter. Glenn72 what coil are you using? What advance position, do you have your distributor set too? That is to say what is the timing curve your trying to use?... regards, Carl B.

What specific wheels do you have? Brand and Model ? Do you have a picture? Carl B.

Carl B. Hi Mike (everyone): I'm not sure I understand that statement - "where cars as at least twice the U.S.". The car sold - sold for the same amount $5888.00 USD. Here or there it was the same price. If anything the car sold well below the market here in Florida, where a Left Hand Drive model in that condition would sell pretty quickly for around $8,500.00 to $12,000.00 (depending on a number of quality issues etc). I would have expected that car to sell for closer to $8K USD in Australia given other sales reports over the past few years. Let's say a new 350Z is $35K USD here - it's about the same in Australia isn't it? Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Red Line is a company "Water Wetter" is one of their products It's actually a surfactant that reduces the surface tension of water. Reduced surface tension results in smaller air bubbles forming in your cooling system, which results in more of the water coming in contact with both the metal heating and cooling surfaces in your engine. Your coolant needs to come into contact with the metal coolant passages of your block to take on heat, then it needs to come into contact with the metal cooling passages within your radiator to pass off that heat. The more efficiently the coolant stays in contact with both metal surfaces.. the heat it can carry away from the block and the more heat it can radiate to the atmosphere through your radiator. It can be used with plain water or mixed with permanent antifreeze/coolant. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Glenn: See the instructions on the Z Car Home Page. <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm</a> On my 72 I needed to add a second balest resister to get the tach to work correctly... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Fresh battery - daylight - 10-24 miles round trip - should be no problem... as far as having enough energy in the battery to run the engine.... Don't know if there is anything in the 280z electronics that would be effected... I lost an alt.belt in the mountains.. drove well over a hundred miles during the day - but that was a 240-Z, with no electric fuel pumps nor F.I.... none the less - 24 miles round trip - especially if you hook up a charger at the garage while your there.. Carl

If the engine has had good care - 143K miles is nothing on an L24. I use Mobile 1 synthetic, because it lowered my engine temp.'s by about 12 degrees F. Then in the Summer months I use water plus Red Line Water-Wetter... that dropped the temp.'s another 10 degrees... between the two the temp gauge stays in the middle now - where it used to approach over heating on days of 90+ degrees F. Change one thing at a time and see what effect it has on your normal engine operation temp. ranges. FWIW, Carl Clearwater, Florida..

Hi Ed: Didn't we just see a thread somewhere where the person was restoring a 240-Z that he got from his Father-in-law??? hummm...... We better watch pretty closely just who our daughter are associating with.... ;-) See: <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248 TARGET=NEW>http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248</a> I have a son 36 and another 32 and my daughter will be 12 this year.... regards, Carl B.

Hi deadflo (everyone): Some terms... my definitions, to understand my statements, in this discussion. "Value" - a personal judgment that usually trades price against quality and utility etc. The value I place on any of my Z's may or may not line up with the price for which it can be bought. "Market Value" - the price "in general" that a larger number of buyers/sells would seem to place on cars given the same trade off of price vs quality... "Worth" - the price point that at any given single point in time - a knowledgeable buyer and seller agree to a transaction. You ask; "Have the values gone up that much in the last two years". I would say that on a National basis - YES - the Market Values have gone up that much in the last two years. For example we just saw a very very nice, mostly original Z with 80K miles sell on e-bay for $20K.... two years ago I doubt anyone would have been willing to pay half that amount. That same car, advertised locally - we few people responding to the ad - might have resulted in a sale at closer to $8K... There is a huge difference in supply/demand on a national basis vs different parts of the country. We are seeing more and more serious buyers enter the 240-Z market at this year, than we did just a few years ago - this is normal for all Classic Collectible and Special Interest automobiles by the way. Witin the last two years for example I have personally seen/ been involved in: - the First 280Z that I've seen trade hands at $40K {two years ago this car couldn't be sold for $30K} - the First purely original, very low mileage 240-Z trade hands at $30K {two years ago this car sold for $11,500} - the First purely original higher mileage 240-Z trade hands above $25K {two years ago a car almost identical to this one sold for $16K} The original owner 72 240-Z that I over-paid $4,500.00 for five years ago - will this year cost at least $8,500.00 to $10,000.00. Keep in mind that any car on the West Coast - will cost the buyer an additional $2,000.00 just to have it shipped back East... You might be able to find a replacement for your Z in Washington for $6K, but it would most likely cost me $8K to $10K to find that car in the first place, then to have it shipped here.. So I would have to carry an Agreed Value of $8K to $10K to replace it here in Florida. What I expect to see in the next two years is: - the true #1 and #2 Collector Quality 240-Z's that were trading hands in the $18K to $23K range these past three or four years - will all be gone. The more average price for them will be in the $25K to $35K range when one comes on the market.. but for the most part the owner that have them now - will keep them for a long time if possible. - the true #3 cars - that would win most local Z Car shows.. are very solid, rust free, beautiful to look at (if your are not a Concours Judge with a scoring sheet in hand).... that were trading in the $6,500.00 to $8,500.00 range two to four years ago - will all be in the $14K to $18K range - and if the buyer is hot enough and the car is RIGHT - he'll pay a premium over those numbers... aka that $20K 240-Z with 80K miles!! - the #4 cars - that most of us would buy today - if they are cheap enough... and if they are solid enough.. for $3,500.00 to $6,500.00..... They will still be in the $5K to $7K range - because they would need complete refresh or restorations costing an addition $15K to $20K... plus year or so of work - to get them into the #2 or #3 condition... All the above apply to normal production cars... Special Interest examples within the 240-Z class - such as the Vintage Z's, the 69 production year examples, the historic race/rally cars etc - - the sky is the limit... The bottom line is this - if believe that you can replace your 240-Z for $6K... start today and go look at the cars advertised... look them over carefully... and look for the next six months like your life depended on it - if you find one that would actually replace your Z for $6K -BUY IT!! if you find 2 BUY THEM BOTH... FWIW, Carl

Hi Jeff: I believe that the Hagerty does offer a Policy that allows for limited track days at this point... but will not cover damage received on-track of course.... You need to call Bob and talk to him about that. In general "Classic Cars" are painted... and in very presentable condition. Not to be unkind in any way but they may not view a race car in primer as meeting the definitions of the cars they insure. When do you plan on having it painted? You usually do not need an appraisal, the people at the Hagerty have a pretty good knowledge of the Classic Z Cars market values based on the condition of the car - but they do require you to send photo's of the car showing all sides etc and they can be digital images e-mailed to them .... Maybe you'll have to be willing to start with a relatively low Agreed Value ($5K), then request an increase once you can send pictures of it finished. Just a comment on "value". How much, or how little, money anyone has spent on their Z's - has no bearing on the market or replacement value of the car. If one lucks out and picks up a Z well worth $15K on the open market, but only had to actually pay $5K... the Agreed Value of the car should still be set at $15K. On the other hand, if you have put $35K into the car, and it would only bring $16K on the open market.. then the Agreed Value would still be sat at $16K. The Underwriters do not allow the insurance companies to "over insure" any cars. In the past all too many of the cars "over insured" somehow got stolen, when they couldn't be sold at inflated prices... if you know what I mean. From an owners prospective - you don't want to pay the additional premiums for coverage over the replacement costs, most of the time you just want a value high enough to assure the car would be properly repaired in case of an accident So the question is - what would be a reasonable Market Value for your Z as it sits uncompleted now? Or what would a reasonable Market Value for your Z be when it's finished all bright and shinny? In primer you might have a hard time getting the underwriters to go anything over $5K on an Agreed Value basis. Finished, the car might well be worth three to four times that amount. As I said, just my understanding of the way it works... but you need to call Bob about the track days and the current state of the restoration process... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: I noted that the seller said "matching chassis numbers".. how's that for weasel wording something... amazing... Carl B.

Hi Guys: First let me say that everyone who has applied any undercoating discussed and/or shown in this thread - has in my opinion done a very professional and good looking job. I have no personal heart burn with anyone/everyone doing what ever they believe is the best thing for them and their car. Nor in any way am I suggesting that anyone do anything based on what someone else may or may not think. I also state up front that on any 240-Z that's going the full custom route - it won't matter what is done. I realize that this discussion is in the "Modified Z's" subject area.. All that said - I feel that it should be stated, it should be at least considered... that at some point in the future an owner may want, or need, to become a seller. Sit two otherwise identical cars, both "restored" or "refreshed" to professional standards, side by side... put them up on a lift for complete inspection by a potential buyer.... and the car without any undercoating will most likely sell first, and sell for far more money. Why? 1. Because the Datsun 240-Z's, if they had any undercoating at all - had a very limited amount, sprayed in very limited areas by the factory. Buyers willing to pay the highest prices for the best cars want them to be as close to factory original as possible. The undercoatings sprayed by the factory were of the rubberized types, and were over-sprayed with the original body color. 2. Thick undercoating - by and large - are all too often used to cover poor metal work, or sloppy fiberglass and bondo jobs... no matter how neat, it just turns prospective buyers of Classic Cars off. 3. From a restoration perspective.. and a preservation perspective a waterproof undercoating can hid for too long, rust that is attacking the metal on top of what it covers on the underside,... just as the tar mats hold moisture and allow rust to form under them from the inside, while hiding it from plain view. Personally, if I had the entire undercarriage on a 240-Z stripped to bare metal - I'd POR-15 it.. then I'd replace the paintable rubberized undercoating, in the places it originally was... and lastly I'd spray the entire undercarriage body color. As I said above - just something that should be considered on an individual basis by anyone going to the extent of a bare metal undercarriage... refresh or restore. FWIW, Carl B.

Every one I have ever seen here in the US and Canada, when the cars were new, or ordered over the Parts Counters were silver. <a href=http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg</A> FWIW, Carl B.