Carl Beck

What specific wheels do you have? Brand and Model ? Do you have a picture? Carl B.

Carl B. Hi Mike (everyone): I'm not sure I understand that statement - "where cars as at least twice the U.S.". The car sold - sold for the same amount $5888.00 USD. Here or there it was the same price. If anything the car sold well below the market here in Florida, where a Left Hand Drive model in that condition would sell pretty quickly for around $8,500.00 to $12,000.00 (depending on a number of quality issues etc). I would have expected that car to sell for closer to $8K USD in Australia given other sales reports over the past few years. Let's say a new 350Z is $35K USD here - it's about the same in Australia isn't it? Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Red Line is a company "Water Wetter" is one of their products It's actually a surfactant that reduces the surface tension of water. Reduced surface tension results in smaller air bubbles forming in your cooling system, which results in more of the water coming in contact with both the metal heating and cooling surfaces in your engine. Your coolant needs to come into contact with the metal coolant passages of your block to take on heat, then it needs to come into contact with the metal cooling passages within your radiator to pass off that heat. The more efficiently the coolant stays in contact with both metal surfaces.. the heat it can carry away from the block and the more heat it can radiate to the atmosphere through your radiator. It can be used with plain water or mixed with permanent antifreeze/coolant. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Glenn: See the instructions on the Z Car Home Page. <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm</a> On my 72 I needed to add a second balest resister to get the tach to work correctly... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Fresh battery - daylight - 10-24 miles round trip - should be no problem... as far as having enough energy in the battery to run the engine.... Don't know if there is anything in the 280z electronics that would be effected... I lost an alt.belt in the mountains.. drove well over a hundred miles during the day - but that was a 240-Z, with no electric fuel pumps nor F.I.... none the less - 24 miles round trip - especially if you hook up a charger at the garage while your there.. Carl

If the engine has had good care - 143K miles is nothing on an L24. I use Mobile 1 synthetic, because it lowered my engine temp.'s by about 12 degrees F. Then in the Summer months I use water plus Red Line Water-Wetter... that dropped the temp.'s another 10 degrees... between the two the temp gauge stays in the middle now - where it used to approach over heating on days of 90+ degrees F. Change one thing at a time and see what effect it has on your normal engine operation temp. ranges. FWIW, Carl Clearwater, Florida..

Hi Ed: Didn't we just see a thread somewhere where the person was restoring a 240-Z that he got from his Father-in-law??? hummm...... We better watch pretty closely just who our daughter are associating with.... ;-) See: <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248 TARGET=NEW>http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248</a> I have a son 36 and another 32 and my daughter will be 12 this year.... regards, Carl B.

Hi deadflo (everyone): Some terms... my definitions, to understand my statements, in this discussion. "Value" - a personal judgment that usually trades price against quality and utility etc. The value I place on any of my Z's may or may not line up with the price for which it can be bought. "Market Value" - the price "in general" that a larger number of buyers/sells would seem to place on cars given the same trade off of price vs quality... "Worth" - the price point that at any given single point in time - a knowledgeable buyer and seller agree to a transaction. You ask; "Have the values gone up that much in the last two years". I would say that on a National basis - YES - the Market Values have gone up that much in the last two years. For example we just saw a very very nice, mostly original Z with 80K miles sell on e-bay for $20K.... two years ago I doubt anyone would have been willing to pay half that amount. That same car, advertised locally - we few people responding to the ad - might have resulted in a sale at closer to $8K... There is a huge difference in supply/demand on a national basis vs different parts of the country. We are seeing more and more serious buyers enter the 240-Z market at this year, than we did just a few years ago - this is normal for all Classic Collectible and Special Interest automobiles by the way. Witin the last two years for example I have personally seen/ been involved in: - the First 280Z that I've seen trade hands at $40K {two years ago this car couldn't be sold for $30K} - the First purely original, very low mileage 240-Z trade hands at $30K {two years ago this car sold for $11,500} - the First purely original higher mileage 240-Z trade hands above $25K {two years ago a car almost identical to this one sold for $16K} The original owner 72 240-Z that I over-paid $4,500.00 for five years ago - will this year cost at least $8,500.00 to $10,000.00. Keep in mind that any car on the West Coast - will cost the buyer an additional $2,000.00 just to have it shipped back East... You might be able to find a replacement for your Z in Washington for $6K, but it would most likely cost me $8K to $10K to find that car in the first place, then to have it shipped here.. So I would have to carry an Agreed Value of $8K to $10K to replace it here in Florida. What I expect to see in the next two years is: - the true #1 and #2 Collector Quality 240-Z's that were trading hands in the $18K to $23K range these past three or four years - will all be gone. The more average price for them will be in the $25K to $35K range when one comes on the market.. but for the most part the owner that have them now - will keep them for a long time if possible. - the true #3 cars - that would win most local Z Car shows.. are very solid, rust free, beautiful to look at (if your are not a Concours Judge with a scoring sheet in hand).... that were trading in the $6,500.00 to $8,500.00 range two to four years ago - will all be in the $14K to $18K range - and if the buyer is hot enough and the car is RIGHT - he'll pay a premium over those numbers... aka that $20K 240-Z with 80K miles!! - the #4 cars - that most of us would buy today - if they are cheap enough... and if they are solid enough.. for $3,500.00 to $6,500.00..... They will still be in the $5K to $7K range - because they would need complete refresh or restorations costing an addition $15K to $20K... plus year or so of work - to get them into the #2 or #3 condition... All the above apply to normal production cars... Special Interest examples within the 240-Z class - such as the Vintage Z's, the 69 production year examples, the historic race/rally cars etc - - the sky is the limit... The bottom line is this - if believe that you can replace your 240-Z for $6K... start today and go look at the cars advertised... look them over carefully... and look for the next six months like your life depended on it - if you find one that would actually replace your Z for $6K -BUY IT!! if you find 2 BUY THEM BOTH... FWIW, Carl

Hi Jeff: I believe that the Hagerty does offer a Policy that allows for limited track days at this point... but will not cover damage received on-track of course.... You need to call Bob and talk to him about that. In general "Classic Cars" are painted... and in very presentable condition. Not to be unkind in any way but they may not view a race car in primer as meeting the definitions of the cars they insure. When do you plan on having it painted? You usually do not need an appraisal, the people at the Hagerty have a pretty good knowledge of the Classic Z Cars market values based on the condition of the car - but they do require you to send photo's of the car showing all sides etc and they can be digital images e-mailed to them .... Maybe you'll have to be willing to start with a relatively low Agreed Value ($5K), then request an increase once you can send pictures of it finished. Just a comment on "value". How much, or how little, money anyone has spent on their Z's - has no bearing on the market or replacement value of the car. If one lucks out and picks up a Z well worth $15K on the open market, but only had to actually pay $5K... the Agreed Value of the car should still be set at $15K. On the other hand, if you have put $35K into the car, and it would only bring $16K on the open market.. then the Agreed Value would still be sat at $16K. The Underwriters do not allow the insurance companies to "over insure" any cars. In the past all too many of the cars "over insured" somehow got stolen, when they couldn't be sold at inflated prices... if you know what I mean. From an owners prospective - you don't want to pay the additional premiums for coverage over the replacement costs, most of the time you just want a value high enough to assure the car would be properly repaired in case of an accident So the question is - what would be a reasonable Market Value for your Z as it sits uncompleted now? Or what would a reasonable Market Value for your Z be when it's finished all bright and shinny? In primer you might have a hard time getting the underwriters to go anything over $5K on an Agreed Value basis. Finished, the car might well be worth three to four times that amount. As I said, just my understanding of the way it works... but you need to call Bob about the track days and the current state of the restoration process... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: I noted that the seller said "matching chassis numbers".. how's that for weasel wording something... amazing... Carl B.

Hi Guys: First let me say that everyone who has applied any undercoating discussed and/or shown in this thread - has in my opinion done a very professional and good looking job. I have no personal heart burn with anyone/everyone doing what ever they believe is the best thing for them and their car. Nor in any way am I suggesting that anyone do anything based on what someone else may or may not think. I also state up front that on any 240-Z that's going the full custom route - it won't matter what is done. I realize that this discussion is in the "Modified Z's" subject area.. All that said - I feel that it should be stated, it should be at least considered... that at some point in the future an owner may want, or need, to become a seller. Sit two otherwise identical cars, both "restored" or "refreshed" to professional standards, side by side... put them up on a lift for complete inspection by a potential buyer.... and the car without any undercoating will most likely sell first, and sell for far more money. Why? 1. Because the Datsun 240-Z's, if they had any undercoating at all - had a very limited amount, sprayed in very limited areas by the factory. Buyers willing to pay the highest prices for the best cars want them to be as close to factory original as possible. The undercoatings sprayed by the factory were of the rubberized types, and were over-sprayed with the original body color. 2. Thick undercoating - by and large - are all too often used to cover poor metal work, or sloppy fiberglass and bondo jobs... no matter how neat, it just turns prospective buyers of Classic Cars off. 3. From a restoration perspective.. and a preservation perspective a waterproof undercoating can hid for too long, rust that is attacking the metal on top of what it covers on the underside,... just as the tar mats hold moisture and allow rust to form under them from the inside, while hiding it from plain view. Personally, if I had the entire undercarriage on a 240-Z stripped to bare metal - I'd POR-15 it.. then I'd replace the paintable rubberized undercoating, in the places it originally was... and lastly I'd spray the entire undercarriage body color. As I said above - just something that should be considered on an individual basis by anyone going to the extent of a bare metal undercarriage... refresh or restore. FWIW, Carl B.

Every one I have ever seen here in the US and Canada, when the cars were new, or ordered over the Parts Counters were silver. <a href=http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg</A> FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Randy: Looks like a beautiful example. How lucky can you be?? ;-) With only 24K miles I wouldn't seen any need to send them to Z Therapy - just pull the tops off and clean them out. Unless the Cad Plating on the hardware has gone bad - but even then, I believe that you can just replace the Cad Plated hardware with parts from ZP. The carb.'s certainly shouldn't need to be re-bushed at this point. Agreed - also while the tank is off - don't forget to clean the fuel lines out..you can pour some carb cleaner into the lines from the front of the car, and in a few minutes blow it out with a little compressed air. It should be a real pleasure working on a Z like the one you have... take your time and enjoy every minute... I thought the Inland Empire was in Washington State??? regards, Carl B.

Kats needs the very early Bridgestone 175SR14 Super Speed 20's. This car more than likely had the 175HR RD-150's. FWIW, Carl B.

Quite a significant difference between the Seller's description and your survey. Are you sure you were in the right Town? ;-) Just too typical.... regards, Carl B.

Hello: A question or two.. Did you have this car advertised For Sale - in Oxford, PA? Can you tell me the original engine serial number? thanks, Carl B.

That "C" might be the original Nissan marking.. and the cam you have more than likely is a regrind. According to Nissan: 13001-E4126 'A' Camshaft (L24/L28 to 8/81) 13001-N3636 'C' Camshaft (L26) 13001-P7980 'F' Camshaft (L28E from 9/81) 13001-P3026 'B' Camshaft (L28ET A/T to 7/82) 13001-P9580 'J' Camshaft (L28ET M/T to 7/82) 13001-P9980 'M' Camshaft (L28ET from 8/82) Unless you are the original (as in only) owner - you never know for sure what you will find in a Z 33+ years later... I haven't found any reference to the grind number... so far... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Phil (everyone) First - I want to make it clear that while I happen to be a very happy Hagerty customer - and I recommend them for that reason - there are several other insurance agencies that offer Classic Car insurance with Agreed Value Policies. I encourage everyone to shop around, make sure you are consistently comparing only companies that have true Agreed Value Policies... and make your own decisions as to who you do business with. (I'm not a Hagerty Stockholder.. have no financial interests at stake..) This thread is moving so fast I can't keep up... I see you have now already called someone at the Hagerty... but I will related the following reply -that I was writing - just FYI anyway. Many years ago, Bob DeKorne was my representative at Hagerty. As the Z's got older and as Collector Level Z's became more valuable.... getting them properly insured became more and more important to many of our Members (I serve as the current President of the Internet Z Car Club, and we have about 15,000+ members now). More and more often we were hearing from owners of Classic Datsun 240-Z's, that were near show quality or better - well worth over $12K at the time - who were in arguments with Insurance Claims Adjustors - that wanted to total their car for a $3K claim, stating that the market value or actual cash value of the 240-Z was less than that amount. (we all know the drill..). As the IZCC's list of Original Owners grew - we all agreed that the "value" of our Z's to us - far exceeded any market value of the cars. So we wanted to assure that in case of an accident, our Z's would be properly repaired and not get into a court case arguing with Insurance Adjustors over the market value or actual cash value of our cars. Most of us wouldn't sell them at any price - we just wanted to assure they would be repaired without hassle.. I talked this over with Bob, he checked the market for Classic Z Cars, talked to the underwriters at the insurance companies.. and Hagerty has provided realistic Agreed Values for Classic Z Cars ever since. While Bob is no longer a Customer Representative for Hagerty, he is still with them and he will be more than glad to hear from you related to your Z. Tell him I told you to call him personally.. or feel free to e-mail him as well Phone: 1-800-922-4050 (ask for Bob DeKorne) E-Mail:"Bob DeKorne" {bdekorne@hagerty.com} FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Doug (everyone): With all due respect, your Agent can "say" anything he/she wants, but that will not change the wording, nor the insurance companies definition of what that wording means, in the Policy you receive. Which is why I suggested that everyone read their policy very carefully and very critically, and if they have any questions about what it will or will not cover - they go over the policy with their lawyer. There is a very significant difference between "will pay up to your Agreed Value".... and "will pay the Agreed Value". (or "Will pay the value stated in the Declarations Page of the Policy) Helpful in making your case?... with a true Agreed Value Policy there is no case to plead. The fact that one has to have, or that one's agent suggests that one keep on hand - an appraisal from an outside source - should tell one that they and their insurance company really DO NOT HAVE AN AGREEMENT for anything other than farther negotiations if the time comes... When the Classic Car Insurers AGREE to the Value of your car, there is no need for outside appraisals to be kept on hand after the fact...because there is no Claims Adjustors to argue your case with. I would also recommend that if your State Farm Agent uses the term "Agreed Value" you ask her to put that in writting along with the definition of it's meaning. (she won't do it of course - she'll back pedel and say something like "well I meant to say Stated Value"... Do let us know what other alternatives she comes up with if any. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Paul (everyone) I have been a customer of the Hagerty for many many years, and I have recommended them to many many Z owners. Of the 150 or so Original Owners on our Z Car Original Owners Register, at least 100 of them are Hagerty policy holders. In no case have I, nor any of them that I know of. - ever been told they had to be going to a car show, or parade. Only that the car can not be used for daily transportation, and that its primary use must be for pleasure. Not true - if your normal daily driver was fully operational, sitting at home.. and you just wanted to take your Classic Car to work that day - to show off - or for the pleasure of the drive... it would be covered. It would not be covered IF it was being used "in place of" your daily driver, because your daily driver was for any reason not available for use. In the first case, your purpose is "pleasure"... in the second case your purpose is to get to work and your Classic now becomes a primary means of transportation. Again - not true. If you are on a pleasure drive, you can stop anywhere and buy anything. Again it goes back to your intended and actual use... If your normal daily driver was not available to you, and you were using your Classic to replace its use... your Classic's primary use would be for transportation.. and not covered. If you were actaully out on a pleasure drive - and decided to stop on the way and buy anything.. your primary use would not have changed.. it would still be the pleasure of driving your Classic.. and it would be covered. I tell you this from personal experience... Again - not the case at all. If your primary reason for being out in the Classic was for your pleasure - and your daily driver was sitting at home available for transportation use... you would have no problem telling the whole truth. I believe that whoever you talked to, has in an effort to caution you of the specified limits of the policy, left you with the wrong impression. I know that the potential hassles of dealing with a Full Line Insurer, on a claim for damages always leaves you dealing with an Insurance Adjustor.. and his job is to settle the claim in the lowest cost manor... That is almost always a real hassle, and we see threads on this forum about it quite often. FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL http://ZHome.com

Hi Stephen: I don't believe I've ever seen a picture of them. There is a 5.5"x14" Road Wheel- Aluminium listed in the Parts Catalog as: 40300-N3225 with a drawing of an aluminium wheel, but that drawing shows cars up through 78... Maybe Chris can check an earlier copy of the parts catalog and see if it's the same.. FWIW Carl B.

Hi Arne: Yieks.. how did I forget that!! Road & Track July of 71. Now all we have to do is track that car down and see if the wheels are still on it! thanks, Carl B.

Bought my first 240-Z in March of 1970, drove it 19 months and put 68,000 miles on it. Sold it for more than I paid for it... then in Dec. of 71 I bought the Metallic Blue 72 240-Z that I have to this day. Bought another White 72 here in St. Petersburg about 10 years ago from it's original owner. It had about 60K miles when purchased by me - refreshed it - and for the most part it's the Z I drive most of the time, that I drive a Z. I was fearful that some moron would run into my original 72... so didn't want to expose it to too much in town traffic. Of course I have a few others as well... So far we have found about 155 people who bought their Datsun 240-Z's new - and who have kept them to this day. Over the years a few have been sold, or passed on to the next generation within the family.. See the IZCC's Z Car Original Owners Register (ZCOOR) at: <a href=http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/original.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/original.htm</a> FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi James: I'd put it this way... All regular production 240-Z's shipped to North America were equipped with steel wheels and hubcaps. The 70/71 Model Year Z's had 4.5" x 14" steel wheels with the "D" hubcaps and the 72/73 Model Year Z's had 5"x14" steel wheels with the "Z" hubcaps. See: The Z Car Home Page: <a href=http://zhome.com/Classic/Restore/HubCaps.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/Classic/Restore/HubCaps.htm</a> So to answer your question - they (wheels and hubcaps) changed at the 72 Model Year. However as an interesting side note: - a 5.5"x14" Steel Road Wheel was FMVSS Approved prior to 2 June 1970 for sale by Nissan Motors USA, in the U.S. Part Number 40300-E4600. (priced at $16.20 each). So far, we haven't found anyone that did order them, and receive them. (but I'll bet there is at least one person out there somewhere that did..). There was also a 5.5"x14" aluminum Road Wheel listed in the early Parts Catalogs, but not FMVSS approved and if put on order - they would always be back-ordered...I tried every year for several years to order a set though our Parts Dept., ... but no luck. Cost?... depends on the level of perfection you are willing to pay for. In general - a NOS set of "D" hubcaps are now in the $1200.00 to $1400.00 price range. Excellent used... about $175.00 to $200.00 each. Well used - but restorable (not rusted to death and beat up) are usually at least $100.00 each. The "Z" hubcaps for the 72/73 Z's run about $150.00 each for a set of 4 ($600.00).. used but excellent condition they are around $95.00 to $115.00 each. Of course "restorable" examples are always far less... Steel wheels - depends on the condition and date stamps. Used 1969 production steel wheels can be $100.00 to $150.00 each (and sometimes you can buy them for ten bucks). The 5" wheels are in the $50.00 to $75.00 range if they are in excellent condition. FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Gavin: First let's make it clear that in this specific case we are talking about "Collector Level" examples, not modified nor custom cars, nor daily drivers etc. A pure stock, 240-Z with only 28K miles - would fall into the category of "Collector Level" as long as it was of very high quality etc. Pure stock examples with less than 20K miles are now selling for above $25K if they have been maintained in, or restored to "as new" condition. As long as the color change is complete, the paint job and body work professionally done to high quality standards - you can change the color of almost any 240-Z, to any color offered that model year, in your country, without any loss of value. There is no permanent record on the car which would indicate what its original color was. The rare exception to that - might be the car that comes with complete documentation, pictures taken on deliver at the Dealership, and over it's lifetime... All of which would add desirability to the ownership by a Collector - and therefore additional value to keeping it its original color. A complete color change, would leave none of the original color showing anywhere. So the entire body would be repainted... inside and out. The problem with the car under discussion is that he picked a color that was NOT available for the model year of his car. The Seller attributed the current color selection to; "research done at the time indicated that Dark Green was available in 73".... it's a shame that whoever did the research - did a poor job for him. That "wrong" color in this case would knock the car out of the Collector Market... unless it can be priced low enough to justify disassembly and restoring it to it's original color (or any correct color), but most "Collectors" don't want projects.. they want finished examples. So as long as 110 Red and/or Silver were available for the model and year of your car - Red or Silver would assure it retained its appeal to the Classic or Collector car market..... if all other things were kept stock and of high quality. There may well be a buyer out there somewhere - that loves this color (even if it isn't correct for the model and year) - that will pay top dollar today for a solid, good running 240-Z without regard to the "correctness" of the car.... but he would be the extreme exception. Collector or not - most people know that incorrect refreshes/restores sell for far less.... so even if one was willing to pay more - there won't be many people bidding.. and driving the price up anyway. (this is not good news for the seller). I always say that one never knows what is going to happen in the future - people may "plan' to keep their 240-Z's forever - and really don't care about resale value at that point - but you never know what is going to happen in the future.... and to me it only makes good sense to cover as many of your bases as possible... pick a correct stock color and you can't lose (at least you won't lose as much). FWIW, Carl B.