Carl Beck

If tying the springs together doesn't do it.. you can try doing what Acura did.. weld a solid piece of sheet-metal across the bottom seat frame to support the cushion, then insert higher quality foam. Of course because of the basic shape of the original 240-Z seats.. they will never provide the support that the far better designed Acura seats do. All depends on how much support your body requires. When I was 20, 30 even into my early 40's the original Z seats were fine. But as I grew older, my back, hips and legs required better support for longer trips.. good luck, Carl B.

See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm TARGET=NEW> http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm</a> As you can see in the pictures, the rear of the Acura seats is about the same height as stock, but the area under your legs at the front is just a bit higher. The Acura seats are FAR better than stock as far as driver support is concerned. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA

Hi Don/Arne (everyone): Don originally said; ..."An opportunity to do something better".... it may be Don. Better is a relative term. Better than what? Better for what use?... "Better Handling".... Here again the real question is; better for what driver, under what conditions? Should your 240Z have a rear anti-roll bar (ARB)? That depends on how you want the car to respond and/or ride under the conditions you plan to use the car. It also depends on how you like to drive. That is to say "a good driver handles the car", only when it is not responding the way the driver wants it too - does he fine tune the suspension to meet his needs. Almost everything in a vehicle is a trade-off of one parameter against another. In stock form, our 240Z understeers when pushed hard into corners. A car that understeers might plow nose first off a corner if the driver pushes too hard, but one that over-steers is likely to spin-out of control completely. In the US, cars are considered to be "safer" ie. "better" if they understeer a bit, and most of the cars sold in the US are designed to do just that, as they leave the factory. In stock form our 240Z gives it's driver lots of "margin" and lots of "warning" before it looses adhesion in a corner. (the body rolls, tires squeal and it starts to plow forward). Add that larger front and rear anti-roll bar, stiffer shocks, stiffer springs, wider wheels and better tires..... and it will corner at a higher rate of speed and handle in a more neutral manor... but the trade-off is that when it exceeds it's limits of adhesion...it will also let-go with what seems like "No Warning" at all! So which is a "better" handling car for the average street driver - one that gives you lots of warning and which you can retain control of, or one that you can easily loose control of as it lulls you into that corner at even higher speeds? IMHO - the average person driving a Datsun 240Z back in the early 70's - won't have the nerve to push it to it's limits, and they certainly don't need to start fine tuning it's stock suspension, until they are able to control it at it's limits with its stock suspension. In other words, improve your "handling" skills first, then decide what fine tuning needs to be done to advance the cars capabilities to respond. (as has been pointed out there are lots of options in the fine tuning dept.) If you are using the car mostly for High Speed Auto-X, club Track Days, or even weekend Road Racing.. then yes maybe that larger front and rear ARB is just the ticket. But it would make good sense in those cases, to take some formal drivers training, spend some seat time getting to know how your Z will now handle with its modified suspension... Get some seat time in, were you can spin off the track without serious damage to your car.... As you increase the 240Z's cornering ability, you reduce the time and warnings you had when it was in stock form, before it lost adhesion to the road. Spring rates are another example of trade-off's being made. US Spec. spring rates were most likely the "best" for most US drivers, on US Freeways and Secondary Roads, as well as daily in-town driving. Where the car was used mostly as a second family car, or a highway cruiser (al la GT use). They provide a reasonable trade-off between handling and ride harshness. Stiffen them up a bit, if you want to improve your times through Mullholand Drive, but the trade-off will be a slightly harsher ride the other 98% of the time you are in the car. Keep in mind that something like 94% of all 240Z's produced were sold in North America, and if I had to guess, I'd say that about 10% of those, were actually sold to Customers that could be considered "enthusiast" drivers, or who would actually use the car primarily for "Sport". DATSUN Competition Department existed for those enthusiasts, as did BRE/InterPart, BSR etc.. As close as I can guess, based on Alan's input in an earlier thread, about 3% of the 240Z's were sold in Japan, and based on other sources about 3% of the 240Z's were scattered among 5 different Countries around the world. I would suggest that those units were purchased 90% of the time or more, by sports car enthusiasts, not simply as second family cars. So we see Nissan fine tuning them for the niche market they were in, with slightly stiffer springs, 5spd.'s and lower rear axle ratio's. For these markets these items stock or optional, supplied "better" handling for the majority of their owners. Going Auto-X'ing on the weekends?... Spend your money on better tires.. leave the rear ARB off. Install better shocks with the Euro Spec. Stage I Springs, a thicker front ARB and Torque Sensing Posi.. (my personal Best set-up - you driving style may vary). The bottom line is, if you take the customer base, the driving conditions, and the most common use of the car into account - then I believe that the US got the "best" suspension set-up for the US Market, and I'm just as sure that the other countries got the "best" set-up for their Customers as well. BTW - The original BRE Rear ARB is a more effective mounting method. It runs around the rear of the differential, and does not rely on the thin metal in the uni-body for mounting. I'm not sure who handles them now... Ground Control/Suspension Techniques used to.. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Mike. Hey - it was just a comment on the humor of the situation, and ebay in general. Didn't intend it to offend either the unknown seller, nor lurking buyer. I also did not see, nor intend any "criticism" of anyone with my comments. I felt I could comment, as you have pointed out - I have paid silly to outrageous amounts of money for things I wanted on ebay, only to see another sell for 10% of that amount a few weeks later.. (the rare 25 page Dealer Service Bulletin isn't one of them... but I have an all but endless list of items that would fit). Personally, I feel that paying stupid amounts of money for hard to find items - benefits the Z Car Community because it sends everyone else digging in their garage or attic, to find and rush those rare parts to market.. So I rationalize it that way... All that said - I still find the mental image of dag1955 doling out one or two OEM Keys at at time... on Ebay.... fishing as it were for us suckers... Sorry, been there done that (took the bait so to speak)... and it still strikes me as funny. As for expecting more of the president of the IZCC - hell, I just one of the Z Car Nuts, that's worked very hard to provide and/or share as much information about our Z's as possible, to the entire Internet Community... I'm not a politician... don't have any commercial vendors or sponsors to suck up to... I very rarely intend to offend anyone, but do most often try to call it like I see it.. As I see it - it's still a funny situation, now made even more so... no offense intended. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Mark: It has been my experience that anyone that carries out a project, to the level of excellence that you have, will in fact "do it again". You may not think so now, but after that now beautifully finished Z sits in your garage... for 6 to 12 months (maybe less)... the satisfaction you got out of completing it, will not over-come the satisfaction you got out of "doing" it. You will simply have to have something out there to fiddle with..., or you'll run across another solid, all but rust free body that could be saved with a little work... I'm sorry, but the results of your efforts clearly show that you are seriously infected with both the 240-Z and the restoration bug. So don't sell that welder too soon, it would be a shame to waste all that experience by stopping at just one. :-) great job, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Pennyman: "L" series OHC engines have both the intake and exhaust valve off-set in the combustion chamber, to one side of the vertical centerline of the cylinder bore. So the term that describes this design is "L Series." (actually a carry-over from the days of "L Head" designs aka Flat Heads). In an "I" (eye) series engine, one valve is offset to one side, and another valve is offset to the opposite side of the vertical centerline of the cylinder bore. So the term that describes that design is an "I Series". (also sometimes called a "Y" type). FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi everyone: How are these different than say the Panasports/Mini-lites? 14x7 aluminum (yes/no?) Carl B.

HI Steve: All the listed products are simply detergents and none are magic cleaners. Anything that will remove stains and deep ground-in dirt from 33 year old vinyl - will in some way also be harmful to the vinyl. The question then becomes how much harm can you afford to do, without wasting the item your trying to save. So far, the best cleaner I've found for vinyl that can be cleaned..(and I repeat that many times the old vinyl simply can not be)... is "SoftScrub" - the kitchen counter top cleaner, second best is the Orange Hand Cleaner... both have a slightly gritty consistency. A better approach - that actually can do less damage to the vinyl - Don't try to clean the item to "as new" condition - it isn't new and it never will be again. Clean it as best you can with any good detergent, rinse it off, and let it dry in the warm sunshine. When it's warm, wipe it down with lacquer thinner and re-dye it with SEM Vinyl Dye. (SEM products are sold by most Automotive Paint and Supply Stores). Good luck, Carl B. 72 Metallic Blue 240-Z with white interior

Same buyer... same seller.. 5 blank keys brought $350.00+... not bad. I wonder how many blank keys dag1955 has stashed away... and how much uwhusky89 will spend in total... What if dag1955 has a whole case of them!! too funny... Carl B.

Hi Ed/Jim (everyone): I'm not sure Ed, what you mean by "Silicone", or "using Silicone to install". That is to say, that there are silicone based sealants, caulks, and adhesives. All have different properties and applications. An adhesive is required, and there are some pretty good silicone based adhesives on the market today. (most sealants and caulks stay pliable/tacky and can be easily pulled apart later - an adhesive adheres or bonds to the materials to which it is applied). Let's take a look at it as drawn in the Factory Service Manuals. <a href=http://ZHome.com/zcarfilesJPEG/WindshieldSealSm.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/zcarfilesJPEG/WindshieldSealSm.jpg</a> The windshield gasket/seal.. is actually a little more complex than a simple "H", as the "H" does not take into account the critical function of the windshield molding. That stainless steel molding is actually there to provide strength and rigidity to the seal, and to prevent the glass from flexing too far forward in the seal - as pressure changes take place in the cabin. The glass actually overlaps the lip in the windshield frame, as opposed to butting up against it (as it would in an "H" type seal). Also note that the "lip" inside the windshield frame is not perfectly flat and smooth.. which means that the seal will not perfectly seal against it.. there are very small gaps where water can run though and into the car. As there are production tolerances on all four components.. the windshield glass, the windshield frame, the windshield lip (the lip is inside the frame) and the seal itself - an adhesive should be applied to the interface between the exterior glass and the seal. A Silicone adhesive or the good old 3M Weatherstrip Adhesive (aka Gorilla Snot) is fine. This is especially true if you are using an after-market glass, as they are not cast to the same exacting tolerances as the OEM windshields. (I've had to have two of them replaced due to distortion that was beyond acceptable limits). IMHO with after-market windshield glass it is Very Important to use an adhesive to secure the seal to the glass. Secondly - an adhesive is required between the seal and the window frame. Again this is very important with cars that are 33+ years old - previous body work, the slightest shifting of the frame as the car's body twists/flexes with age and use etc.. Over the years there is nothing to say that the window frame is still exactly the shape it was when the car left the factory.. and the slightest variation can allow a leak If the engineers at Nissan say that an adhesive is needed/required.. you can bet that this sealing system was designed to use an adhesive - and if they tell me to use one - I'll take their word for it. (I've had too many of them leak when I didn't follow the directions/spec.'s). Yes, if you are using all Nissan OEM parts (windshield glass, seals), you might get away with out using any sealants or adhesives 8 out of 10 times... but throw in a after-market glass and/or seal - and install that all into a 33+ year old unibody (that may have twisted a tad, or had it's window frame reworked etc.)... and you'll most likely wind up with a leak somewhere. Professional installers usually want to run a small bead of sealant around the edge of the glass, then install the seal over the glass. With todays sealants/adhesives that might work as well... as just applying an adhesive to the outside edge of the glass and interfacing seal. But you still need the adhesive between the exterior window frame and the seal. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hello 7240Z Your Z understeers in stock form. Push it hard into a corner, feel it start to plow, lift suddenly off the throttle and crank in more steering lock in a panic - and if you are caring enough speed, you can get it to oversteer. When the rear end starts to catch up to the front - get on the throttle hard and you can easily do a 180 or 360... Learn how to drive it in stock form, and the truth is that it isn't a matter of how the car handles, so much as how you want to handle the car. Join a local SCCA chapter, take the drivers training courses they sponsor as well as any others you can get yourself into. You'll learn a lot more a lot faster about how to handle the car, and you'll have a safe place to put yourself through those inevitable 180's and 360's. (if you haven't spun it out or off track you haven't pushed it to your limits ;-) Once you have learned to push it to its limits and safely hold it there.. then you can begin to fine tune the suspension and your driving... In stock form your Z is a handful for sure - but it's not beyond your reach if you have average reflexes and you are taught what to observe and how to respond etc. My personal opinion is that it is very important to learn how to drive your Z in it's stock form first. Jump in a car that is way above your abilities to handle it at its limits - and you will not develop the feel, the basic skills, the driving techniques and confidence that you need to really advance. You simply have to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run..... then you run the best when coached properly. It's the same with driving. good luck and most important of all - stay safe.. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

This is one Event I will most certainly do my best to Attend... One of the most enjoyable events I've been to in the last 20 years. The drive to and from the event was almost as much fun as the event itself... Was it held in "May" last year?.... seemed like it was later in the year.. Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Arne/Chris everyone: 1. They are the Euro Spec. Stage I (ESS-1) - as defined by Nissan Competition Parts Dept. USA in the 70's/80's. 2. They would seem to be the same springs as standard on the 240-Z's sent to Australia, but Alan believes that Great Britian at least, got the Euro Spec. Stage II springs on their 240-Z's. 3, According to the three or four people that responded, installing the ESS-I springs made no noticeable difference in over-all ride height. That is to say no one experienced any wheel/tire clearance problems. They did say that the usual "nose high" appearance of the car, was changed to a more "level" look front to rear. No one took accurate measurements of the "before" and "after" installation, because they felt their old springs were sagging anyway. Looking at the Nissan Spec.'s the installed height of the ESS-1 springs is about 0.9 inches shorter in front, and 0.4 inch higher in the rear. 4. The ESS-1 springs are about 22% stiffer in the front and 9% stiffer in the rear. The ESS-II springs are about 22% stiffer in the front and 9% stiffer in the rear, than the ESS-1 springs. 5. Spring Rates: US Spec. Springs are: Right Front 1.48 kg/mm (83 lbs/in.) Left Front 1.48 kg/mm (83 lbs/in.) Rear 1.85 kg/mm (104 lbs/in.) The Euro Spec. Stage 1 Springs are: Right Front 1.80 kg/mm (101 lbs/in.) Left Front 1.80 kg/mm (101 lbs/in.) Rear 2.00 kg/mm (140 lbs/in.) Euro Spec. Stage II Springs are: Right Front 2.18 kg/mm (122 lbs/in.) Left Front 2.18 kg/mm (122 lbs/in.) Rear 2.5 kg/mm (140 lbs/in) Merry Christmas everyone. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Oops ... sorry - should have checked the ebay listing.. It's a Factory Service Bulletin... "Introduction of..." sorry, Carl B.

Hi Don: What is a "Dealer" Manual? Can you supply a picture? thanks, Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://zHome.com

Hi 240ZX - I'd give them $4001.00 and out bid you ;-). I agree that there are always the unknowns and certainly agree that the cost of them can add up quickly. However close inspection of the specific car would quickly revel that it was as advertised, and in need of very little. Seriously, if you could find a solid 71 240-Z, with little to no rust in the body - with matching numbers and mostly original parts - you'd have to pay at least $5,500.00 East of the Mississippi... and it could otherwise be a real rag. (meaning it needs paint and body work, interior work, lots of detailing, new chrome, weather stips/seals etc. etc. etc). But let's say you did find a solid car, with matching numbers for $4K. Around here today, you'd have to disassemble the car yourself - and take the car to a local body shop for body work and paint.... a decent job would cost $5K, not to mention the hours you'd spend to take it apart and putting it back together. The repaint on that car was done with all glass out, all chrome off etc - but they stopped short of repainting the engine bay - it was in pretty good shape in it's original form. Subtract that $5K from the $8,400.00 selling price - and that lucky buyer actually paid $3,400.00 for a very sold, mostly original, matching number car. Subtract the re-chromed bumpers ($800.00), the new carpet kit (??$125.00) and he actually paid closer to $2,500.00 for the car!! The car also came with the original hub caps and wheels (not too common to find on any car today)... even used they would sell for $125.00 each.. so subtract that and the new buyer actual paid closer to $2,000.00 for the car!! Oh yes, that perfect dash.. in a 71... another $800.00 to $1200.00 today... Heck, the car itself was all but a gift! At $9,500.00 this car would still have been a good deal by todays standards, if you wanted to buy a pretty much finished car, rather than a project car. FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL http://ZHome.com

Hi Guys: I know the seller.... why he was willing to end the auction, once bidding started and let it go for the "Buy-it-now" price is somewhat beyond me. At one point he said he was thinking of changing his mind about even selling it. zhead240 - your fellow Canadian will be VERY pleased with this car at that price. No question that if he wants to drive it around the continent, he'll have to replace the original belts/hoses etc.... but he will find that a couple of grand and a few weekends work will put that car in all but "as new" condition. I know a buyer that was willing to bid/pay more for the car if necessary - and like me, he was surprised that the car could still be purchased out-right for the Buy-it-now price, once bids were received. We both thought that once bids were received on an item, the Buy-it-now price no longer applied. Turns out that if the seller lists both a reserve price, but does not put in the first "starting bid"... then the seller can accept the Buy-it-now price any time it's offered, even if 50 people had already bid... We learned something new on this one... FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Oops...sorry for the confusion - looks like Alan cleared that up already at <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19816>http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19816</a>

This is the car that was on ebay a little while ago - - - the one with the reworked VIN... that was discussed... it was withdrawn from sale after so many people wrote the seller about the phony VIN etc. What was that thread??? Carl B.

Hi Richard1 (everyone) I can only relate my experience... My son had a 72 Olds Cutlass Supreme. Restored and professionally appraised at the time at $8,500.00. He of course had lot more money in it than that, not to mention a couple years work. A "Reverend" ran a Red Light and took the nose off my son's Cutlass. The Reverend was insured with GIECO.. he was sighted/ticked for the Red Light... went to Court and was found guilty. GIECO's "Adjustor" offered my son $1,500.00 to total the Cutlass out. My son submitted the Appraisal (at the time less than two months old), plus about ten pages of "For Sale" ad's that reflected the average market value of restored Cutlass Supremes in Florida at the time. On average they were "asking" in the $6,500.00 to $8,500.00 range. All this meant "NOTHING" to the Adjustor - he said, take the offer or sue us. He knew that the limits in the Small Claims Court here in Florida were $5K. He knew that if there was no "personal injury" involved, my son could not recover "Legal Fee's" in addition to actual damages; but would have to pay his Attorney out of the money awarded if he prevailed in Court... which would leave about $2K at the most. All this dragged on for about six months.. and the Adjustor finally offered $2,500.00 to settle the claim - and my son gave up and took it. Letters to the State Insurance Commissioner did no good in this case, letters from my son's Attorney went in the trash at the Claims Adjustor's desk. The "Only" way to protect yourself - when you own a higher value Classic, Collectible or Special Interest Automobile is to have it fully insured on your own "Agreed Value" Insurance Policy. Yes - if one buys a 30 year old car with 5K miles... one can expect to put a few $K into it, if one wants to take it out and drive it on longer trips. On top of that, it all depends on how well cared for the car was - while being stored. Many cars in good Collections - are very well cared for.. started, ran, fresh gas etc etc - and just as many are just left to "sit" unattended. The one's that have been left to sit will have "issues" that will need to be resolved.. and that usually costs both time and dollars. Properly awaking one of these Sleeping Beauties, that has been left to just sit completely idle has to be done carefully and correctly - if you want to avoid problems. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi deadflo (everyone): Sorry for the confusion - I shouldn't have used that term here. The "P81" was used initially on the ZX with Power Steering. Nissan Part Numbers 11041-P8100 See: <a href=http://ZHome.com/zcarfilesJPEG/P81HeadSM.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/zcarfilesJPEG/P81HeadSM.jpg</a> Brian's site is filled with useful data/info - but as usual, there are mistakes/errors there as well. (we all have them on our sites). Brian writes: >The E31 is an uncommon, desirable head that came on early 1970 240's. It's chambers >were high-quench designs, however the valves were smaller than the 260 and 280* heads. >Probably about 10,000 were made. But after 35 years, most of them are long gone, having >been over-collected and used up in racing. 42cc chambers I believe. Actually the head with casting E31 was standard on the Series I (69/70), Series II (71) and a few came marked as E88, when they actually were the castings of the E31 on the early Series III (72 Model Year) DATSUN 240-Z's imported into the North American Market. Not "uncommon" at the time, something less than 46,000 of them made their way here. ( I think Brian got that 10K number from reported sales for calendar year 1970 here in the US). The only reason the E31 was used for "racing" in the early days... was because that was the only head available here, that could be used in C-Production/Stock classes in 70/71. Both BRE and BSR switched to the newer E88 heads when they became available on the Series III models in late 1971 (72 Model Year Z's). The E88 had better flow characteristics and only slightly lower compression. It's quite easy to raise the compression using almost any of the L24/26/28 heads.. it's the design of the runners from the valves, to the intake/exhaust Ports that are cast into the head that are very hard to change.. the size, shape, length of the runners, the radius of the curves in it... all have a great impact on flow rates. You can polish these runners, and to a degree increase their diameters.. but it's not cost effective to attempt to change their routing and the radius of their bends. So you start with good "runners" and you can easily modify combustion chambers. Brian writes: >The E88 came on the 1971-73 240s and '74 260s, in 2 versions, small valve and large valve >on the 260. It's chambers are the same cc size as later N42 and 47 heads. Despite what some >older books say, I can't see why the E88 would have any performance advantage over any other head. Actually as mentioned above - the E88's started on the 72 Model Year 240-Z's. There were at least 3 versions all with casting number E88. One on the 72 240Z, a different one on the 73 240Z (combustion chamber shape), and a different one on the 260Z (larger exhaust valve). Here is where it can get confusing and I most likely shouldn't have used the "P81" designation here... Just as the heads all with E88 casting numbers were actually different, so were there differences in the heads with N47 cast on them. The P81 mentioned has a casting number of N47... but it is a different Part Number and the internal runners are different. I would guess that Brian couldn't see why the E88 would have any performance advantage over any other head, because he didn't have a Flow Bench, nor could he see the internal design of the runners. These differences may only matter if you are going to the extreme in head work - Jim Wolf uses the different Part Number designations to assure he and his customers are talking about the exact same head (regardless of the common casting number)... when they plan the applications and necessary modifications. You will note he also uses "N33", "P50" in addition to the original E88, as a way of telling exactly which E88 head they will be using/modifying and selecting cam's for etc. See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/128combo.html TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/128combo.html</a> Brian Writes: >The larger valve N42 came on the 1975-76 280Z. 280Zs didn't use a catalytic converter until 1977, >and the head came with softer bronze valve seats for use with leaded gas.Many people like these for >performance because of it's square exhaust ports. And as a easy mod, putting it on a flattop L28 >motor puts compression in the mid 10's. That may be a little misleading... actually the E88 on the 260Z got the larger exhaust valve (35mm vs 33mm) on the 74 Model Year Z's. The 75 280Z's with the N42 got the larger Intake valve (44mm vs 42mm). Until 77 all the Z heads in North America used the valve seats for leaded gasoline, the hardened steel valve seats were standard from the 77 Model Year forward (it wasn't only the N42). Also, as I recall every time we've figured the compression ratio using the N42 with flat top pistons we got something closer to 9.6:1 not the mid 10's. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

You can join the SEMA Action Network and get involved in positive legislation for our auto hobby: See: <a href=http://www.semasan.com/ TARGET=NEW>http://www.semasan.com/</a> Related to the subject at hand: URGENT LEGISLATIVE ALERT SEMA Pro-Hobbyist Inoperable Vehicle Bill Becomes Law in Kentucky (Washington, D.C., Apr. 1, 2005) - - SEMA, the Specialty Equipment Market Association, announced that Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher signed into law model legislation drafted by the association to place limits on public nuisance ordinances that prevent automobile collectors from pursuing their hobby.** Under the new law, junked, wrecked or inoperable vehicles, including parts cars, stored on private property would only be required to be maintained out of ordinary public view.* It would apply to owners or occupants of land in a city, county, or unincorporated area.* States and localities often enforce strict property or zoning laws that include restrictions on visible inoperable automobile bodies and parts.* Removal of these vehicles from private property is enforced through local nuisance laws with minimal or no notice to the owner.* Jurisdictions enact these laws based on the notion that inoperable vehicles are eyesores that adversely affect property values.* Many such laws are drafted broadly, allowing for the confiscation of vehicles being repaired or restored. “We believe that clear legal distinctions must be drawn between an owner using private property as a dumping ground and a vehicle enthusiast working to maintain, restore or construct a vehicle,” said SEMA VP Government Affairs Steve McDonald.* “This new Kentucky law as written by SEMA provides safeguards for hobbyists to work on collector vehicles on private property and establishes reasonable provisions that vehicles be located out of public view.” The new law applies to automobile collectors, defined as those who collect and restore motor vehicles whether as a hobby or a profession.* To comply, collectors would maintain hobby cars out of ordinary public view, a sight line within normal visual range by a person on a public street or sidewalk adjacent to the private property.* This provision would be achieved by means of suitable fencing, trees, shrubbery, etc. “Kentucky lawmakers were eager to work with us and the state’s hobbyist community to create reasonable and fair compromise legislation permitting outdoor storage of hobby cars and parts if they are maintained in such a manner as not to constitute a health and safety hazard.* We are especially indebted to Representative Mike Denham for spearheading this effort.”* FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Stephen (everyone): It would take a very serious and time consuming effort to fully "Judge" the car in question. But looking at the ad I'd guess it would fall more in the category #2 range. (not having the original tires/wheels alone would most likely knock it out of the #1 category). FYI - the Old Cars Price Guide by Kruse, defines #1 thru #6 categories as follows: #1 EXCELLENT - Restored to current maxium professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. A 95+ point show car that is not driven. In national show judging a car in #1 conditon is likely to win top honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate controlled facilty. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars. #2 FINE: - Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also an extreanely well maintained original showing very miminal wear. Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows, except when squared off aginist a #1 example in its own class. It may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure. #3 - Very Good: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and servicable inside and out. Plus combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts. This is a 20footer - that is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside we might detect some wear on the drivers seat, foot pedals, and carpet. The chrome trim while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp mirror like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment on the car are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles seen at car shows are #3's..... #4 Good - A driveable vehicle needing no or only minor work to be functional. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. All components may need restoration to be excellent, the car is mostly usable "as is". This is a driver - It may be in the process of restoration or its owner may have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs a lot of help.. #5 Restorable - Needs complete restoration of body, chassis, and interior. May or may not be running, but isn't weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful only for parts. This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it si essentially all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won;t have him doing a lot of chasing for missing parts. #6 Parts Car - May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gang, interesting car at any rate.. Why would anyone want a 77 280Z with 5K miles and who would be willing to pay $25? Collectors... it's just that simple. Some people enjoy collecting the most beautiful and most rare objects, that most other people can only dream about owning. "Collector Quality Automobiles" have been all the rage among many Collectors almost from the beginning of the Automobile. Anyone that loves the Z Cars should hold a high regard for the people that are now adding them to their Collections. Why?... Because for decades to come, they are the people that will have the cars we all look to - for answers to our questions of originality, and to take our children and grandchildren to see. These cars will be the most perfect original examples that can be found... One rung lower on the scale will be perfectly "restored" examples... but they will always be one rung lower and always sell for a bit less (even if it costs more to produce them!). These are the Z Cars that will move from private collections to public museum's.. Vicki - Yes, I hooked a couple of friends together and the 78 Black Pearl is now in a Collection in Atlanta. It traded hands well North of the $30K she wanted for it a few years ago. Who else would pay $25K for a 77 280Z with a real 5K miles?.... Almost anyone that has spent $50K trying to get a Classic, Collectible or Special Interest Car in anything near the condition of this "original" as it is presented to be. If it's clean, take it to any National Z Car Convention and it's a Gold Medallion Winner... Take it to any of the National Level Concours or Historic Car Show .. and it's a class winner. Take it anywhere and it will draw a crowd. Car Shows are actual FUN for many people. They get together with like minded people, swap war stories, ogle each others prize possessions... and yes in most cases they actually have examples of the same model that they like to drive. For them it isn't an either / or situation... But let's not kind ourselves either... Just because a #1 Collector Quality example sells for $25K or $40K.. that doesn't mean our #3 condition car will bring even half that amount... True #1 cars are very very very rare.. Usually traded in private sales, you almost never see them at auction nor on a Dealers Lot... I think we are starting to see some on e-bay, it's a great source of free adverting even if it doesn't sell there. Also keep in mind that if a serious Collector wants a specific car - they will gladly pay a very high premium just to get a reluctant owner to let it go... A willing seller on e-bay might expect quite a bit less.... and the seller of a standard 75-77 280Z won't get the interest of the serious Collectors that a limited production Black Pearl either. As someone else mentioned - if a buyer really wanted a 280Z in that color, and if they had to money to spend - it wouldn't be out of the question to see it bring $25K today if two or more of them showed up for the auction. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi ehanvey (everyone) I hope ehanvey got some useful information in response to his main question, even if there seems to be some conflicting and tangent inputs. I believe it would be a little more accurate to say that the engine block and head were the same between the 77/78 280Z and early 79 280ZX's. The 75/76 280Z's used the N42 square port head and the 77/78 280Z's used the N47 round port head. This was carried over into the initial months of 79... but then sometime during the production of that model year Nissan switched to the P81. A slight tangent... to the thread... did appear in the above quote and I don't want to hijack the main subject, nor get too far afield... but as it relates to the HP ratings used by Nissan.. if anyone is interested here is what I believe to be the case... See: <a href=http://ZHome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SAEHPRatings.htm TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SAEHPRatings.htm</a> SAE Gross Horse Power, SAE Horse Power and SAE Net Horse Power. Three Rating Systems - not two. FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com