Carl Beck

Hi Guys: With Will's warning taken seriously.. if you go check the car over... and if it is as rust free and straight as described.... At this point in time.. the "Buy-It-Now" price on the car represents a bargain in the 240-Z market. (your paying $3000.00 for the car plus $4,500.00 for all the paint and body work.. everything else already done on the car is FREE). A good straight, rust free, unrestored, unrefreshed 240-Z in presentable condition, with 90K to 120K miles, that runs out fine... has a base price of around $5,500.00. This would be a car that would be a good starting point for a full refresh.. or restoration.. No matching number engine, leaves it out of any future Collector Market... so deduct about $1,500.00... now it's a $4k car. OK... now take it apart, fresh paint to above average but not "SHOW" quality.. $4,500.00 Put it back together.. with all new: bumpers chrome scripts/emblems etc Weather strips/seals Carpet, Seats, door panels, interior plastic panels hoses, belts, water pump, fuel pump, battery, rebuilt SU's.. new radiator, new heater control valve and hoses... Do a fresh brake job Do a fresh clutch Do a rebuilt tranny.. find a good rear gear.. On and on it goes... by the time you duplicate this car... You'll easily have spent a year or more of your time.... and easily an additional $15K... You now have a car that is as good as this one is supposed to be for only $19K - and this one might be as good as presented... Oh... you want to really go full restoration... all period correct bits and pieces.. show quality paint... Add another $20K to $25K today. If this car checks out as described... rust free.. solid, above average paint... running fine.. he has it priced at least $2K under it's current market value.. If it had it's original engine.. it would be easily a $11K to $14K car... Buy this car as a driver for the enthusiast.. local shows where matching numbers don't matter as much.. maybe a future L28 turbo project.. take care of it and it will still be worth the money two, five or ten years from now... maybe a whole lot more.. If your serious about buying a very nice driver.. go check it out carefully in person.. and buy it now at $7,500.00... plan to spend an additional $4K on small items.. just to have a bit of fun with the car.. Any one that has spend any time looking for a good (not excellent, not perfect... just "good") 240-Z now knows how hard it is getting to be to find one. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Dave: No. I do not know if there was more metal or not.. only that the structure was redesigned to meet and pass the impact test criteria. As I recall the impact test used a swing arm weight that struck the bumpers in the middle.. This impact had to be absorbed without disabling the car, and leaving the lighting in tact and working (both front and rear).. So it was quite possible that they simply moved some metal around.. where it would reinforce the structure.. or allow it to crumple without taking out the lights. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: The part number data that was printed on the aluminum foil stickers affixed to the struts, was only partly visible... I have some pictures of them I'll try to get on-line, maybe you can fill in more of the missing/smeared lettering/numbers. They are Ampco.. that was still clear on them. No.. I am not certain that they are the struts used at Baja. Mr. Brock is still looking for pictures from the period.. but originally the car seems to have been equipped with the Rally Struts (with fixed spring perches)... then changed later to the adjustable coil overs.. why or exactly by whom... is still TBD. As you will see from the original data tags when i get the pictures on-line.... they are marked NISSAN S30 RALLY... That is not to say that the struts weren't later modified with the coil overs.. the car was road-raced briefly by it's second owner.. Agreed.. that is most likely what I will do.. the restoration is primarily aimed at presenting the car as it originally appeared, and preserving the history... I seriously doubt it will ever actually be raced again. Agreed... that was pretty much the path that BRE followed.. they used as much off the shelf stuff that Nissan could supply... then modified from there. The numbers are not stamped into the struts anywhere that I can find.. and I sanded them down to bare metal before refinishing them. They had aluminum foil type stickers, that had the information printed in ink on them. I haven't removed the rear struts yet.. and may be able to get some additional details off them, once I get them off the car. At this point I do not know for certain when/who they were installed.. The one article done by a Magazine in 1973 used photo's of the car before it was actually complete... then the second owner converted some things for road racing.. and he very well could have modified/changed the suspension at that point... that would have been closer to the 74/76 time period you mention... I'm in the middle of a major transition between computers right now..so as soon as I can find, publish the pictures of the struts and what was left of the stickers.. I'll get back with you.. (moving from a seven year old Mac G3 to a new G5... very painful experience.. upgrading and/or up-dating all the software and files etc..) more later, thanks, Carl

Hi Alan: Yes, that would be supported by Andrews reply at #9 also. As the spring perch is higher on the strut, when the above mentioned springs are installed.. they can not be interchanged with the spring we are tracking. Nor can I find any source for them at present. Actually no.. I had not researched the damper spec.'s - -that accompanied the various spring rates from Nissan/Datsun. For that matter it is next to impossible to get the technical spec.'s for any of the aftermarket units as well. Would be interesting to know. So it makes us wonder which set of springs/struts were on the production car tested, as well as the shock rates used. Yes/No? I've also noticed that the installed height of the various springs, would also change the relationship of front and rear ground clearance. That too would have an effect on lift at higher speeds I would guess. I was aware that on the various competition cars shock absorbers and their valves could be changed and/or altered to provide local fine tuning. I have the Factory Race Suspension on my BRE Z and am finding it impossible to locate any parts to rebuild the shocks... err... dampers... (54302-E4622 and 54303-E4622 front struts, 55302-E4622 and 55303-E4622 rear struts). I may just have to turn to the after-market and have a custom set built. Do you have any specifications for the springs used on the Factory Rally Suspension? I can not find the spec.'s anywhere. All I have to compare is the Free Length of the Race and Rally Springs.. Of course I have the Race springs so I can measure them... Do you know anyone that has the original Rally Suspension...that could take some measurements for us? It's not critical, but it would be interesting to know.. Not really. Many of the JDM and Export parts not found as standard equipment on the US/North American Spec. cars - are listed and were available via Special Order over the Parts Counter at the Datsun Dealers. Many were also listed in the Datsun Competition Parts Catalogs though Nissan Motors USA. Could have been just a way or generating additional parts and service revenue, by selling into the huge after-market for speciality and performance parts here in the US at the time. The Dealership I worked at installed a lot of them for customers after they purchased their cars. (rear spoilers, 5spd.'s, lower ratio rear gears, stiffer springs etc.). I remember that my first 5spd. over the Parts Counter cost ... are you sitting down.. $375.00!!). Since the Datsun 240-Z's sold here in the States, really had no true factory "options" (other than A/T) that the customer could select/order on his car... the customers here were hungry for items that could be used to "customize" or "individualize" their Z's, as well as increase the performance of the car. The automotive after-market was fairly quick to supply a host of comfort, performance and appearance items for the 240-Z's. Many of which became "Factory Authorized" and were resold by Nissan Motors USA, with Datsun Parts numbers thourgh the dealer network. regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi kurtwwalters: To answer your questions: The State Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) determined the "title year". But I think your question is really about the "Model Year" recorded on that title. (title year being the year the title itself was issued) In 1970/1971 the Dealer determined the Model Year. Yes, if it was first sold to a retail customer in 1971, it would commonly have been titled as a 1971 ""Model Year". (do you have a copy of the original title or original bill of sale showing how it was originally titled? Could have been a mistake made on previous title transfers too.). See: See: <a href=http://zhome.com/History/1970or1971.html>http://zhome.com/History/1970or1971.html</a> Now we'll have to update "the Z Car Home Page"...Record holders have to come to Clearwater to claim their prize.... Hooters sounds good to me...we have the Original one here!! FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

The seller owns the auction company that had it for sale in OK.. The seller lives in California the car is still listed as being in OK He has also corrected many of the mistakes in the first ad.. This car should sell... For a time, Nissan shipped the Left door panels that were intended for the Right Hand Drive cars... This was an error on their part.. but these seem to have found their way into some of the Vintage Zs; I'd guess because the program schedules did not allow them to wait on replacements. regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater,FL USA http://ZHome.com

The FMVSS for 77/78 changed the requirements for rear-end impact damage control. As far as I know, all the 77/78 280Z's had the raised rear deck originally intended to pass the new FMVSS .... If you order rear bumpers you will notice that they are all different for the late 260Z (based on the 280Z body), the 75/76 280Z's and the 77/78 280Z's.. this is because the rear impact test requirements changed in those years.. So to did the uni-body structures that carried the bumpers and took the impacts.. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Alan: Great... that helps a lot. Now all we need is either the Wire Diameter, or the Coil Diameter (coil dia. is measured from the center of the wire on one spring coil to the center of the wire on another spring coil - 180 degrees from the first). Since we know the Inside Diameter either the Wire Dia. or the Coil Dia. can be derived from the other. Then we need to know how many coils are in the springs. Number of coils and/or Number of Effective Coils. Note: the number of coils might be say 10 but the number of Effective Coils could be 8.5 if the bottom coil is pressed together. Everyone keep digging... regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Alan: The above is the OEM Spring for the US/North American Spec. Cars as well. The above is what we know as the Euro Stage II Spring. Rate is: 2.18 kg/mm or 122 lbs/in The above is what we know here in the US as the Euro Spec. Stage I spring. It is listed in our Parts Manuals as "optional". The above is listed here in the US as "Optional with A/C and A/T. Spring rate is 1.49 kg/mm or 83 lbs/in. The above is the same as the OEM spring for the US/North American Spec. Cars. The above is what we here in the US know as the Euro Spec. Stage II spring. Rate is: 2.18 kg/mm or 122 lbs/in. The above is known here in the US as the Euro Spec. Stage I spring. Listed as "'Optional" here in the US Parts Catalogs. The above is listed here in the US as "Optional" with A/C and A/T rate is 1.49 kg/mm or 83 lbs/in. The above is listed here as the OEM rear springs for the US/North America The above is listed here in the US as the Euro Spec. Stage II spring. Spring rate is 2.5 kg/mm or 140 lbs/in The above is listed here as the Euro Spec. Stage I spring and optional. Hope I got that right... thanks, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Alan: The data provided is most helpful indeed. I'll cut/paste all this into a single table, and try to keep the Metric to US conversions consistant.. I'll also see if some of the Part Numbers have been changed over the years etc. Bear with me... this may take some time... thanks again, Carl B.

Hi Andrew: Yes.. that is very helpful to know. It pretty much says that the UK got what our US Parts refer to as the ""Euro. Spec. Stage II" springs. thanks, Carl B.

Hi Alan (everyone): I guess that is one of the answers I was hoping to get defined. The Euro Spec. Springs could be ordered through the Datsun Parts Dept.. at any Datsun Dealer here in the US from the 70's forward. However there were two options, Euro Spec. Stage I and Euro Spec. Stage II. I have found no clear definition of which, if any, Countries got the Euro. Spec. Stage II springs. I believe that the Left Hand Drive and Right Hand Drive models would have used the same springs, only the Right and Left Front Springs would have been swaped depending. (Yes/No?). No, I thought that if everyone sent the data we could sort out which countries got what. We would also know what is or is not interchangeable What We Have Listed Here In The US Parts Catalogs: Part Numbers and Spring Rates - Euro Spec. Stage I Springs 54010-E4107 240Z Spring/RF (101 lbs/in) 54010-E4106 240Z Spring/LF (101 lbs/in) 55020-E4201 240Z Spring/R (112 lbs/in) Part Numbers and Spring Rates - Euro Spec. Stage II Springs (as you listed) 54010-E8100 240Z Spring/LF (122 lbs/in) 54010-E8101 240Z Spring/RF (122 lbs/in) 55020-E8100 240Z Spring/R (140 lbs/in). (although Courtesy's Listing would seem to have the R and L front spring Parts Numbers reversed - or was this done intentionally for application to Left Hand Drive cars here?????). I was most specifically looking for the specifications for the Euro Spec. Stage I springs. The Euro Spec. Stage II springs require a different spring perch height on the front struts, than that which is standard on the US Spec. Cars. In other words to use the Stage II springs on the US Spec. cars the spring perch height has to be raised 1" to maintain full shock travel; or new optional struts were required: 54302-E8127 240Z OPT Strut /RF 54303-E8127 240Z OPT Strut/ LF We hope to have the US Spec. and Euro Spec. Stage I springs reproduced, as they are NLA everywhere here in the US now. However the manufacturer requires the complete set of spring specifications. The OEM springs removed from 71/72 240Z's here, are testing out to be about 70% to 80% of their specified rates. Many people do not want to use the performance springs presently available in the after-market, because they all result in lowered ride height, or springs that are way too stiff for GT use. Any information you can supply will be greatly appreciated, especially the complete spec.'s for the Euro Spec. Stage I springs (which is what I believe were OEM on the GB models. Kind regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Would someone with a Factory Service Manual for the Euro Spec. DATSUN 240-Z's please Post the specifications for the OEM springs. The Factory Service Manual should list in the Service Data and Specifications at the end of the Front/Rear Suspension Sections: Wire Diameter Coil Diameter Coil Turns Coil Effective Turns Free Length Installed height/load Spring Constant

Carl S. Thanks for the link to George's Mirror Repair Page... great idea... ZSaint wrote: .....""You say they fit into the stock holes in the driver door? ".... As I recall, either the front or rear screw on the Racing Mirror utilizes the original hole for the stock mirror. Then you have to drill one additional hole for the Racing Mirror. Nonetheless, the Racing Mirror covers both original holes in the drivers door. On the Right Door, you have to drill two holes for the Racing Mirror of course. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Carl S. You left out the one statement that actually is wrong.. "Approximately only 50 cars were finished by Nissan." Everyone knows is was approximately 40 that were finished. ;-) FWIW, Carl B.

And another view from the Z Car Home Page <a href=http://zhome.com/History/240ZRacingMirrors.htm TARGET=New>http://zhome.com/History/240ZRacingMirrors.htm></a>

Here is a picture of them on my Blue 72. I was lucky, when I worked for the Datsun Dealer, I put a few sets of the Racing Mirrors away... Over the years I used them on several cars... Now I'm down to only one spare set left. See: <a href=http://www.becksystems.com/72BeachMed.jpg>http://www.becksystems.com/72BeachMed.jpg</a> I will say that these were cheap mirror sets to begin with.. as I recall they sold for something like $17.99 a set in 72. As such, they have a steel ball that rotates in an aluminum housing, and tension is supplied by a steel strap across the ball. Over the years the aluminum sockets wear.. and the mirror housing can get pretty floppy. I've now resorted to epoxy to set them in place... ;-(... Carl S. ... you said; "...sold by the Dealers and many other sources".... I've never found a supplier other than the original Datsun Dealers that supplied these exact mirrors. I've seen lots close to the design and close to the size.. but still not the same as these. Did you find a exact match in the aftermarket? thanks, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Sure... see: <a href=http://zhome.com/History/Images/72Broc2.jpg>http://zhome.com/History/Images/72Broc2.jpg</a>

At a Buy it Now of $20,000.00 it should sell quickly! By todays market it's a give away price... Wonder if it's going to Sweden?... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Dave (everyone): In this case, the problem with those non-stock mirrors is... If you have the stock mirror on the driver's side... now you have fill the holes in the door and repaint the door... then you have this problem with matching the color again... Great mirrors if you think ahead and plan to to use them ... before you have your paint and body work done. One alternative.. if you can find them... is to use the "Racing Mirrors" that the Datsun Dealers sold and which were included in the Datsun Rear Window Shade Kit. They fit the OEM mirror hole on the drivers door, then you have to drill matching holes in passengers door... but they look good, fit the period and you don't have paint matching problems... Of course finding a set is the hard part in that case... If it ain't one thing... it's another... Just my perspective... Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Check your Yellow Pages... Air Conditioning Supply or Automotive Hoses In almost any town in America you will find a speciality company that will take your old fittings and make you a new hose. If you want, they will supply new fittings as well, but they may differ in appearance. If you tell them you want the look and diameter of the old hose duplicated, they will most likely be able to do that. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

BMW M series in-line six. 3.2L 320HP... taken out of the Z3 series BMW... and dropped right into your 240-Z.. transmission and all... All it takes is MONEY! If you love in--line six's you have to love this engine! BTW the GM 4.2L In-line six... 270HP stock... in racing form at Baja..650HP+. Tons of design and development went into this engine.. designed for low end torque, heavy pulling duty.. ran without water through Death Valley in the summer months.. cooled by its oil capacity only.. Almost bought a new XJ-R in 96... Impressive, wonderful driving car...$65K ... by 1999 with 20K miles there was one For Sale on another Dealers Lot... $29K asking price... depreciating $36,000.00 in three years.. Sure made my Z hobby look inexpensive!. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

ENGLAND... Mirror RH Door EUROPE is 96301-P9100 FWIW... I seriously doubt that they are still available from Nissan anywhere in the world. Just too few of them to begin with, and most likely not much demand for stock when they were available... so most likely NLA Carl B.

Mirror RH Door mount 96301-P7200 Left Hand Assy-Back Mirror Door Outside 96301-E4600 FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

zhead240 Hard to tell from the picture.. but ...That looks like a small amount of rust bubbling up around the area to me. Better to stop it now, than let it go until it becomes a large amount of rust. The rear deck lid threshold plate is an area with several common rust/corrosion problems on all the First Generation Z's. 1. There are factory spot welds where the rear quarter panel is welded to the rear tail light panel. The spot welding, burns the primer off the metal and melts the seam sealer leaving bare metal and that invites rust. 2. Dirt builds up in that crevices where the two panels over-lap, that dirt holds moisture against the metal.. a promotes rust. That is what looks likely to be the case here. 3. Exhaust gases from the tail pipe, work their way up under that threshold plate on the left side, and the acid from the fumes starts to eat away at the metal as well. I would remove the tail light finisher panels, so I could get a look at the threshold plate from the under-side (be careful pushing the centers out of the plastic rivets to make sure you recover them all). Then I'd sand the area that is bubbling up, to get rid of as much surface rusts a possible. Treat the area with some "Ospho".. . Ospho is a mild phosphoric acid solution, it will chemically convert iron oxide (rust) into iron phosphate. In effect killing the rust. Then spray a little zinc rich primer on the spot and last a little color touch up.. The repair area right now will wind up being about the size of a half dollar... by the time you feather the edges out... and even if you don't have a perfect color match... you'll have a chance to inspect the entire threshold plate from underneath and stop any problems there before they have a chance to get bigger... FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com