Carl Beck

Hi Guys: I can tell you that the Dealership I bought my first Z from - installed tinted rear windows with the defroster's - in cars that came from the factory without them per a TSO. This information was combined in a later TSB related to when the rear window defroster was changed for 72. See Attached. Tinted glass and rear window defrosters were supposed to be "standard equipment" on the North American Datsun 240Z's. Although the first sales brochures listed them as "optional" - but we know there weren't any "options" - other than you had the option to buy the car or not. ;-) There was no additional charge for these items, nor the labor as far as the Customers were concerned if they were listed on the original Window Sticker but not found on the car. If the Customer pointed to the sales brochures and was unhappy enough about not getting the "option" - he got them installed even if they weren't on his original window sticker - at no charge. Nissan shipped the parts and paid the labor at the Dealership, to correct the issue. As we see today, some people had the parts changed and many people didn't. So today or 30 years ago - it is really impossible to tell how the specific car came from the factory prior to the items being included at the time of build - unless you look at the wiring itself. If you see U.S. standard automotive electrical wiring - you'll know that the Dealer installed the tinted rear window and defroster, or it was done at the Port, before being shipped to the Dealer. Somewhat the same situation with "Carpeting" that was supposed to be standard on the North American cars - - - and which was produced locally and installed, or included with the car when shipped to the Dealer, after they arrived here. According the Factory Service notice - the last 240Z shipped without the rear window defroster {and most likely tinted glass} was HLS30 1455. This was confirmed by it's owner. Michael F. Hollander. Us old guys will recall that Michael was the author of a Book "THE COMPLETE DATSUN GUIDE" in 1980, and was very active with the Datsun Owners Assoc. {as I recall} in the early 70's. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Rick: Mull started this thread in 2003 -- - you will enjoy watching the Video's he has produced about "Project Hugo" .. his Z Car restoration story. He bought a "rust free" Z on E-Bay sight unseen, and had it shipped to Sweden. See: Part 1 though 17 here... You'll enjoy it.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5664992189261881712# FWIW, Carl B.

Sounds like you ran into two very intelligent young ladies.:tapemouth Great story.. Carl B.

Hi Coop: Can you post a couple pictures - so I can see what shape they are in? Also tell me if they have ever been painted {if you know}... Any WIN in a 40 year old Sports/GT is Impressive... FWIW, Carl

Be aware that there are "Right" and "Left" hand cut keys and the matching locks on the 72's. You can not re-key a Right hand cut lock to use a Left hand cut key. Meaning that you can only have your hatch lock rekeyed to fit your ignition Key - if it uses the same R or L Key as your ignition. FWIW, Carl B.

Let me re-phrase that. One of our member's 240Z was featured in an earlier SI Swim Suit Edition - thus starting the association between the Z and the SI Swim Suit editions.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Richard: Good to see you here. I along with several automotive historians agree with you - the Datsun 240Z is considered to be one of the most important cars in U.S. automotive history. It changed the perception of Japanese cars in America, from being cheap little economy cars, to being high quality world class vehicles. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guy: I have Hagerty - and I did have a claim {first one in 40 years} Absolutely no hassle - and all the kindness and help they could offer. The only thing they said was "take it to whatever restoration shop you use and have it fixed". "If you don't have a shop in your area that you trust to do the work correctly, let us know and we'll get recommendations from Collectors in your area". I started working with the Hagerty many, many years ago to get Agreed Values on our Original Owner's 240Z's -, from the Z Car Original Owners Register on the Z Car Home Page. At that time most insurance companies, claims adjustors were putting actual cash values on 240Z's of around $1,500.00. {no matter if you had $10K in the car}. The original owners simply wanted Agreed Values high enough to assure their 240Z's would be properly fixed, should anything happen, without being totalled out for a relatively minor accident. In most cases, if there was an accident, it wasn't the original owners fault. Nonetheless the hassles with claims adjustors from the other persons insurance company or their own were simply impossible to overcome. It is a whole different story when your car is insured for an Agreed Value by another insurance company. Funny how insurance companies don't like to sue one another.. Really great when you don't have any hassle about getting your Classic Car properly repaired... I think we have about 130 of our 165 Original Owner 240Z's insured with the Hagerty today, and something over 600 Z Cars insured with them 70-96. The people at the Hagerty are real "Car People", they support the Classic Car Hobby all over the nation. Needless to say I don't think you can do better. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I've seen quite a few of these in new cars. When the Dealerships received the cars, the hubcaps, carpet, tool kit, outside rear view mirror, inside rear view mirror, booklets etc were in the rear deck area. Nissan had an extensive "Pre-Delivery Inspection" process during which the car was mechanically and physically checked over. In addition to preparing it for delivery to the Customer - or actually to be turned over from the Service Dept. to the Sales Dept. {then the Sales Dept sold and delivered the car} The Owners Manuals and Warranty Booklets along with other Paperwork such as the MSO went to the Title Clerk {of Office Manager} in the Dealerships. They in turn processed the MSO for State Title, filled out the Factory Warranty info to be sent to Nissan USA, and stamped the owners warranty info on the warranty cards. If they were really on top of things - they also recorded the VIN, Engine Serial Number and Key Codes for the new owner in the Warranty Booklet.. but sometimes that didn't get done before the customer that had been waiting for his/her Z wanted to take it... During PDI - all extraneous "trash"... boxes from the hub caps, the paper they were wrapped in, the vinyl sheets covering the door panels, wrappers from the seatbelts - - - and yes - - -these funny little inspection notes written in Japanese - and considered of no value - - went into the trash. The mechanics had to fill out a PDI Report - and one copy of that was supposed to go to the Customer, while other copies went to Nissan. Nissan paid the dealers for PDI services... I still have the Inspection sheet that came in my Blue 72 Z - but only because I took the car right off the truck - and did everything to it myself. Who would have ever thought back then that anyone would want to see any of that junk - - 98% of the Datsun 240Z's left their hub caps and stock wheels at the Dealership, and the Customers never saw them. For years we had large stacks of both stock wheels and hubcaps sitting around - and after a time we just threw most of them in the dumpster. There just wasn't enough room to keep them all. If you bought your Snow Tires from the Dealer instead of a Tire Shop - we'd throw in a set of stock wheels to mount them on ;-) The Parts Dept sold a few over the counter for customers that wanted them for snow tires as well - - usually $5.00 each, $10.00 if you wanted both stock wheels and hub caps. For years and years and years no one wanted "D" hubcaps, they were ugly, and stock 72/73 hub caps were just passable... Moon Dishes were the only way to go if you didn't have "MAG's".. On the Inspection sheet - after all these years one can just barely read what is left of the ink from the "carbon copy"... it wasn't too bright to begin with. FWIW, Carl B.

There is your garage space Guy... Bob isn't kidding.. Carl

Hi Bob: Tell the owner not to take a penny less than $18K for that car. All he has to do is reach the right buyer with lots of clear photo's...Anyone that has looked at a lot junked up and poorly cared for 240-Z's - that is able to buy a nice one when they find it - will snatch that one up in a heart beat. It is just a matter of getting the word out far and wide - and reaching the right person - the car itself is well worth $18K in 2009 dollars... With the inflation that is surely facing us over the next five years - it will take three times as many dollars to buy it then. FWIW, Carl B.

I'd guess you need to have a load test performed on that battery. Put it on a slow charger. After it is fully charged - take it somewhere that it can be put on a battery load tester. Sometimes batteries develop a dead short internally and that shows up on a load test. It sounds like it is going dead to quickly for something in the car to be draining it - if there is something in the car draining it that quickly - I think you would smell it. FWIW, Carl B.

What engine - what head? You list three Z's in your profile.. Carl B.

Actually Chris: The Datsun Jacket pictured was sold or given away by the Datsun Dealers. The Datsun Jacket sold by BRE had the large DATSUN patch on the back. The red 240Z patch pictured was most likey added by someone. FWIW, Carl B.

Come to think of it - that might be a legitimate question in some peoples minds. http://connectionsuisse.vox.com/library/audio/6a00c225285da5604a00c2252aff0e8e1d.html and http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/choose-quebec/society-values/french-language/index.html just saying....WTF???

Hi Ron: Several years ago I had tracked the car down to the person that sold it to its present owner. He relayed the following from documents found in the car. Which is pretty much confirmed by Rick as well. - He believes he was the second owner, from the window sticker in the glove box and other papers. - Purchased it from Garner, NC in 1976 - Imported into Portsmouth, VA - Sold by a Hampton, VA Dealer - At the time of purchase it has over 90K miles - Head replaced due to over-heating - Sold it to its present owner - an inside Parts Counter Man and Collector that worked for Bob Sharp Datsun. He gave me the present owners name - and I had been trying unsuccessfully for years to track him down. Talked to Bob Sharp and he remembered him, but did not know what happened to him, same for a couple other guys that worked in the Racing Shop at BSR... The present owner only worked at Bob Sharp Datsun for a couple years... He seemed to have dropped out of the Z Car community and no one knew where he was... Engine L24-02085 FWIW, Carl B.

Only now all the kids know exactly what to put in your gas tank or oil sump - instead of "sugar".

Well that's true. It's for people like me that have an old clunker sitting in the driveway - being used once or twice a year. An eyesore that the wife and neighbors were glad to see goneLOL The C4C Program is actually for New Car Dealers, and to aid in proping up the Government Motors Corporation for the UAW. The politicians were simply smart enough to make use of one or two of their groups of "usefull fools" {Gore's Folks etc}... to paint it Green and push it through in a hurry. Business as usual in D.C. Over your lifetime the single most expensive thing you pay for is the cost of Government. According to some reasonable sources that amounts to about 54% of your lifetime earning. One way to "save" some of your own money - is to take advantage of any "tax incentive" written into the Federal Laws. Most people buy a home - not only becaues they need it - but because the interest on the long term loan is tax deductible. Likewise today millions of people are taking advantage of the tax deduction in the thousands of dollars - to install new energy efficient A/C units, insulate their homes etc. From the customers perspective - the C4C program is simply another tax incentive - although one that was exceptionally easy to claim and comply with. As long as my wife is still working - she or I have to earn $7,031.25 in order to keep or spend $4,500.00 after taxes. {the value of my C4C}. With a tax incentive like that - we'd be stupid not to take advantage of it. C4C credit is NOT INCOME to the customer either.. which makes it even more valuable. I wanted something a bit newer than my 72 510 S/W for my Daughter to drive {not sure I would give it to her anyway} - My wife didn't want to give her 91 Thunderbird SC with 9K miles on it - to my Daughter... So that left me looking at a clean, low mileage used car... which takes about $12k to $15K even in todays market. C4C was a glove fit for me.. Daughter gets a car I don't have to fix, I get a good rational for upgrading my pickup from an 88 Chevy to maybe a 2000 Chevy... which I didn't really "need" as long as the clunker was sitting there.. FWIW, Carl B.

Carl??? Carl didn't say anything about Sand....da... Granted there are alternatives - one could continue to drive an old BMW and pour $4,500.00 into maintaining it over the coming years. Either way it costs money to drive.. Mary's new car has a 10 year / 100,000 mile power train warranty, in addition to the 5 year/ 60,000 mile new car warranty... So she should be good to go for a while... All said and done - one couldn't buy a serviceable used car for the total price of the new one.

It is true. I had a long talk with the owner this week. I didn't want to say anything - nor "spread the word" - until the guy that found it had a chance to tell the story himself. He had to leave unexpectedly to attend a fellow Marine's funeral this week. FWIW, Carl B.

The car becomes a "Clunker" when the Dealership fills out the on-line forms with the CARS program office. At that point the Dealer has to give them the VIN along with a lot of other data, copies of the Title, Registration, Insurance from the customer. If the Dealer decides to keep and resell the car - he can't show it on the Customer Sales Order as a "CARS Program Credit" - doing so would risk serious Federal Penalties - Keep in mind that these are Authorized New Car Dealerships worth millions and millions of dollars - no Owner would risk that. The Dealer has to disable the engine per the procedures outined in the code - before it is turned over to the Salvage Yards... and then there is a whole paper trail until what's left is crushed. Additionally the Customers have to sign certain forms, and swear to certain facts - again any misrepresentation carries Federal Penalties that far exceed any potential reward. Anyone with any nerve can screw with Local and State Laws - and with a good Lawyer walk away pretty clean if caught. That is NOT the case when dealing with the Fed's - they can destroy you and they enjoy doing it. Unlike Medicade/Medicare - I really don't expect to see much fraud with this program.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: You have to admit that model and model year alone - really doesn't tell you much about the vehicle. My wife had a 1991 Expolorer - she is a very easy driver - when we sold it in 2000 it want for $6K with 86K miles - prior to selling it we put about about $2K into it - power windows failed, brakes were due, the evaproator sprung a leak.. Jump forward 10 years - and picture the Explorer with 150K miles falling completely apart.. Or check your local junk yards and see how many are there - not wrecked, but just with blown tranny's and engines - and not worth fixing. I can see why the 90's Explorers are topping the list.. No question there are a few out there with 50K original miles that some old lady had that you can buy for $6,500.00 today... but they aren't the ones being turned in - at least not around here. FWIW, Carl B

Why would you assume that? Perhaps like me - their clunker was paid for years ago - and ever since they saved their money monthly... I'll bet that of the new cars sold with the CLUNKER program a huge percentage of the customer paid cash for the difference - or had such good credit they could put it on their VISA. Like I said - at least around here - you have to have A+++ credit ratings to get a loan on anything - this isn't the same market we had a couple years ago... With Manufacturers Discounts, and the CARS credit - most of the vehicles sold cost around 20K to start with - and the actual difference was between $10K and $15k {I'm guessing}... not exactly like financing a new car for $30K over seven years. Even then - "IF" you have the credit rating -"0%" financing on a $15K loan - is still very affordable for people that have good credit to begin with.. FWIW Carl B.

The problem is that a car with a market value of $4,500.00 won't be financed by any banks or credit unions today. So you have to find a buyer with the CASH to buy it - or with the Personal Line of Credit against which to draw. Marginal buyers have been all but shut down by the Banks and Credit Card companies - as credit for anything is still very tight. If you have an 850+ credit score and you don't need the money to begin with - you can still qualify for a loan. Secondly - if the car could be sold for $4,500.00+ - the dealer still has to take his overhead and cost to sell off the top of that number.. So even if he got $5,500.00 retail - he'd still lose money on the deal.

There were about 120 "clunkers" that I parked mine beside - trust me, you wouldn't have paid $500.00 for any of them.. $9000.00??? I think your friend at Midnight needs to watch what he's smoking ;-) If the car was worth $9000.00 the dealer would simply put it on the Used Car Lot and not sold it to the Government for $4,500.00 there isn't a Dealer left in business at this point that is that stupid. FWIW, Carl B.