Carl Beck

Well - our age I guess. I can remember when you had to have a Church Key to open a can of beer, and it actually took some grip strength to crush a beer can... Of course I can also remember when all "soda" came in 6 or 8 oz. glass bottles and sold cold for a nickel. I sure wish they would put Pepsi back in returnable glass bottles... it was far better then... Some things have NOT improved with age...(present company excepted;-).. FWIW Carl B.

Want to force the guy to sell? Get to know one of the people on the City Commission, then start writing "citizens" complaints to local Zoning Enforcement Board about the "junk yard" in question. Get the people that are trying to sell property around that "junk yard" to file complaints saying that the ugly appearance of that lot is preventing potential buyers from bidding etc. Cars parked on lots - that do not run, are not registered etc - are usually in violation of local zoning ordinances - and the owners of the lots can face very heavy fines if they don't comply with Orders of Enforcement from the Zoning Enforcement people to clear the lot. I doubt that guy has a permit to run a recycling yard, I doubt that he has pan's under all the cars to catch oil/gas from them etc etc. Just two residents that live in that City (whatever it is) could force the issue... Even if the area is zoned as "industrial", I doubt he can run a junk yard there. Just a thought - FWIW, Carl B.

I see the shell of a Sunbeam roadster... but what makes anyone think it is a Tiger? Just curious? Carl B.

On the other hand..... 69 Production Year examples seem to bring $7K+ no matter their condition or completeness. The car might have been worth more had he NOT added yet another coat of paint that will now have to be removed... da... FWIW, Carl B

Come on - they haven't make beer cans out of steel for decades. FWIW, Carl B.

The Hunting Beach Concours is Saturday 31 May and Sunday 1 June 2008. They are accepting Datsun 240-Z's this year and looking to get more representatives for the Class on Sunday. They even have two Classes into which your "Classic Z Car" can be entered. "Concours" (for non-driven cars) and "Street" for pure stock 240-Z's that are driven weekends/pleasure. This is a significant show.. and a chance to show off your Classic Z Car. See: http://hbconcours.org/ Contact Bart McGrath at 714-960-2100 Many people have been working hard to get the Datsun 240-Z's into this type of event. So take the car cover off - and get out there... FWIW, Carl B.

Thanks Ron. I posted my warning after I requested the VIN from the seller and did not get a response. Given that we now have a public list of the VZ Vins.. a none response sent up the red flag for my part. I also notified E-Bay that the seller was using someone else's pictures and that the description seemed to lack complete honesty. Much later, I did finally receive the VIN from the seller... but by then the car had been removed from E-Bay. The owner is a ligit. guy - but just handled the whole E-Bay thing wrong...As it turned out, he did find another place to keep the car in the family, and decided to keep it that way. An ounce of prevention... I'd do the same thing again.. FWIW, Carl B.

Well that was fun - thanks Brandon Carl B.

Owner decided to keep it in the family. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: Very good point - and it should bring us (well me) back to reality here. Symbolic meaning always boils down to the personal significance one assigns to the symbol. Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: Yes - I'm beginning to think that this could be a Goertz thing in more ways than one. Interesting nonetheless. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jason: That is kind of my point. Earlier I ask if it was the signal flag or the letter Z that was the cultural symbol. I found it odd that the Japanese would have an English Letter used for a Japanese cultural symbol. On the other hand flags are in general used for national symbols... If Admiral Togo wrote in his ships log that he ran up the "Z" flag in 1905 - then years later when his ship was being restored Post WW-II ; and someone at that point in time looked up the then current signal flag, they would have found the Yellow,Blue,Red,Black example.... When they should have referred to the list of Navel Signal Flags in use circa 1905 in which case the actual flag used might have been the Blue/White example. It seems that the Yellow,Blue,Red,Black flag is used today by the Right Wing in Japan as a symbol. So if it is actually a Right Wing Symbol, flown by the Japanese Imperial Navy circa 1905 and then by the ship that lead the attack on Pearl Harbor... is it the same as the Swastika flag used by the Nazis Party in Germany? Japan's territorial expansion between 1875 and 1930 lead to the deaths of some 20 Million to 30 Million people. Does it meaning of "ultimate" actually refer to Imperial Japan's ultimate dominance of South East Asia?? If so, maybe we in the West shouldn't be pushing this flag as in any way associated with the Z Car. IMHO - Wikipedia is a great idea, and usually provides some information - but all to many times it provides wrong or misleading information. In my opinion it is still way to hard to get misinformation corrected. FWIW, Carl

Six years without a major change or upgrade with constant price increases -is partly the reason the 90+ lost sales... and ended the Z line in America. They need a totally new design... That Pontiac Soltice Coupe is looking better and better.. FWIW, Carl B.

Ron.... the real seller is rj77777 and I've notified him that this guy is using his pictures

It seems that there are "Naval Signal Flags" used by the various military organizations around the world; and there are International Marine Signal Flags used by the Merchant Marine and public. The International Signal Flags were first published by the British Board of Trade in 1857 and various updates, changes have been made over the years. Likewise the various Navy uses by different countries have changed over the years. OK - there is a battle at sea between the Russian Navy and the Japanese Navy in 1905. Given Admiral Togo's training with the Royal Navy in the late 1800's - and the time period of the battle (1905), what we view today as the "Z" Flag was in Togo's time the Royal Navy's "C" Flag.{see first image below} At that some period - the Russian Navy used the same signal flag to represent the NUMBER "0". See: http://www.navy.ru/symbols/svod.htm While both the Royal Navy and the Russian Navy used this blue/white signal flag for the letter "Z" circa 1905 (English Z, Cyrilic "3" or Z.) See: Signal flag З http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/xf~ru.html Images below are from: the Handbook Of Signaling 1913 - Flags and Pendants Used In Naval Signalling. BR827- A Seaman's Pocketbook 1913. Hummm....... I wonder if Admiral Togo drew a picture of the flag in his log to show what he actually used. If he wrote that he ran the letter Z up - then someone later, looking at the modern signal flags might have picked the wrong flag to display.(wrong being yellow, blue, red, black). Blue/White Navel "Z" of the time, or Yellow, Blue, Red, Black Navel "C" of the time???? Of course, it is possible that for some unknown reason - Admiral Togo might have switched to the international Merchant Marine signal flags... but I doubt a Navy Admiral would do that going into a battle... the search goes on.. FWIW, Carl B.

I think that is a completely phony sale... not his pictures, no VIN given.. and private sale by a seller that has "0" feedback... I've reported it to E-Bay FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: Sorry -- but that is just too funny... But now we'll all know that it is the navel signal flag for the letter Z, while we contiune to search for the rest of the story. FWIW, Carl B.

Two Days to go on this one: E-Bay Item #330237123980 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D330237123980%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=330237123980 This is a nice 72 that has already had a bunch of money put into making it road ready. Fly in to GA and drive it home... FWIW, Carl B.

From: http://tmg110.tripod.com/japan1.htm "Admiral's Togo's signal passed into legend as the Japanese equivalent of Nelson's flag hoist at Trafalgar or John Paul Jones' defiant protest that "I have not yet begun to fight!" On the morning of December 7, 1941, Admiral Nagumo, commander of the Pearl Harbor strike force, hoisted the "Z" Flag aboard his flagship, the aircraft carrier Akagi—later sunk at the Battle of Midway." So the Z Car represents the economic attack on the American Auto Industry??? Is that the hidden meaning? Seriously: Is Admiral Togo's use of the Z Ensign the root of the "common symbol" in Japanese culture, to which the cultural meaning "ultimate" has been assigned? Would it be correct to say that it's the FLAG that is the symbol - - rather than the English letter "Z". Does anyone know why Admiral Togo - selected the "Z Flag" to represent some then new message? Was that part of his training with the British Navy of the period? Interesting bit of history - thanks for the lead Chris. Now I must know more... FWIW, Carl B.

See my Post #19. In 1948 William R. Gorham joined Fuji Motor Company as Vice President. Mr. Yamamoto who had previously served as President of Nissan Motors, had moved to become President of Fuji Motors and ask Mr. Gorham to join him there, to get Fuji restarted. Fuji Heavy Industries was broken up after WW-II. Fuji Motors was started in 1948, to refurbish thousands of US Military Trucks that had been left in various parts of the South Sea's after the war. In order to determine where and how these vehicles would be repaired/rebuilt, the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers had to decide. Both Mr. Yamamoto and Mr. Gorham were ask for their assistance in this matter. Of course Fuji Heavy Industries was reformed in 1953 by consolidating Fuji Motors with several of Fuji Heavy Industries' previous parts. FWIW, Carl B.

73 510 ? Is that in addition to the Station Wagon? Carl B.

Hi Jason: I've read that in accounts related to Mr. K and the Z Car - - - - however, I've never been able to find any mention of an "Unofficial" ensign used by the Japanese Navy in any historical account. Their official ensign was the Rising Sun 1894 to 1945. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: At least one person agreed with you. Katsuji Kawamata, the President of Nissan Motors Ltd. said in a 1973 interview with Business Week, that he felt it was a mistake to have introduced the Datsun Brand, rather than using the NISSAN brand from the beginning in the US. He envied TOYOTA for having done so. I don't think too many people that bought a Datsun here in the US, did not know that it was a product of Nissan Motors, just as they knew that a Buick was a product of General Motors. The automotive press always made that clear, and most of the literature published by Nissan also made that clear. Now however, years later the average consumer doesn't know that Nissan produced Datsun's. FWIW, Carl B.

"DATSUN" (DATSON) was the original Brand name of the small line of cars produced by Nissan Motors Ltd. when it was formed in 1933/4 They applied the NISSAN Brand name to a larger line of automobiles, trucks and buses years later. ( which were actually Graham-Paige Crusaders; the design and manufacturing equipment purchased from Graham-Paige in America). Nissan Motors Ltd. was really formed as a conglomerate with several smaller manufacturing and production branches. In its earliest days for example Nissan produced parts for Fords and Chevy's being manufactured in Japan. While it's founder, Yoshisuke Ayukawa had a strong desire to get into the automobile manufacturing business in Japan, I'd call him more of an Industrialist than a Car Guy. For example David Buick was a guy that wanted to make and sell cars (the Car Guy)... whereas William Durant putting GM together was a guy that wanted to build an Industrial Empire. Just as Durant had his technical genius in Charles F. Kettering, so Ayukawa had his technical genius in William R. Gorham. I believe that it is more than possible that such a short time after WW-II (1958), the then current management did not want to use the NISSAN brand name on exports to America/Australia etc; because of Nissan's support for the Japanese Imperial Army in China, and more specifically the fact that its founder and President, Ayukawa had been tried and imprisoned for war crimes committed by Nissan in China. Toyota has no such PR problems with the Toyota Brand... Photo by Travis Rogers: FWIW, Carl B.

..and that is only part of the reason why many business leaders consider changing the Brand Name from DATSUN to NISSAN was one of the largest corporate blunders of the 20th Century. FWIW, Carl B.