Carl Beck

Very interesting to compare these two 280Z's even though they would both attract quite different types of buyers. 27K vs 83K mile 5spd. vs A/T constant use vs sitting for 20 years not used perfect body vs a body with damage/small spot of rust and needing refreshing running vs non-running??? Ohio vs California All original documentation vs ????? To an extent it's a show car vs a project car.... we'll have to see what the final prices for both are, before we can decide which offers the most value for the money paid... FWIW, Carl B.

Hello Martin: Good to see you here. I am sorry that you felt the information you sent me, about Mr. van Bergen was "censored" by me. The word "censorship" carries a connotation that I do not believe applies in this case. To the best of my knowledge, no one (Merlin nor myself) is attempting to stop information about Mr. van Bergen from being published... ie censorship. The truth of the matter is that while I personally found it interesting from the perspective of Datsun/Nissan history - there was very little information related to Mr. Van Bergen and the Z Car, ie. the main theme of "the Z Car Home Page". So I didn't really see much Z content to publish there. TSK 33 SA 694 - I believe that van Bergen had the lowest finishing position of any of the Factory Teams running Datsun 240-Z's in the 71, 72 and 73 Monte Carlo Rally (10th OA in 71), so at the time, I couldn't build a story around that, without a lot more information. FWIW, Carl B.

Looks like a very good Z to start with ... it could be a real beauty when you are done.. I agree with 240znz - get brakes, get it running and drive it for a while. Then decide what to do, and in what order. Personally, I'd take it apart - get the body and paint work done... then work on the suspension etc. Nothing keeps you going like a car that "looks" like it deserves drivetrain and suspension improvements. Besides, they are all bolt on items that can be easily done, after the body/paint - and you would not wind up with over-spary from the body shop on your new suspension parts, or engine... FWIW, Carl B.

Phil, in another thread confirms that the original engine is no longer in the car nor available. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Phil: The starting bid on #279 is $7,500.00.... The asking price on #357 is $10,000.00... You are asking $4,000.00 for #464.... That's pretty close to half as much... It's really hard to find a 69 production Z - that would be considered to be in "restoreable" condition (restoreable in the sense of a condition grade - being a Classic Car) for much less than $8K today. Did not mean your asking price should be cut in half again - as you have already done that. Spend $35K to restore a matching number car, or spend $35K to do the same for a non-matching number car. The matching number car will sell for $35K and the non-matching number car might sell for $18K. FWIW, Carl B.

HI Phil: There is a question as to the original engine still being in the car or not. One person reported engine serial number L24-04642 as being installed in the car. Did you put the original engine, with Serial Number L24-02389 back in the car, or was it in the car when you bought it? thanks, Carl B.

Hummm..... I have it last reported for sale in Calif. - by Byron. At that time the original engine serial number was #2389 - but the car had #4642 installed. Pictures of the engine compartment indicated a later engine... Perhaps we need to see #2389's serial number on the block, in the car... to cler this up. FWIW, Carl B.

As for #464.... Then you would wind up FAR behind.... in the end. I don't believe that #464 has it's original engine... value is cut in half.... and it would be hard to resell for any thing other than a daily driver... Funny the ad. doesn't seem to mention that... FWIW, Carl B.

Eiji at Datsun Spirit was able to get rebuild kits for me, out of Japan. I don't know about getting new pistons... but you might give him a call. See: http://www.datsunspirit.com/ Good luck, Carl B.

Now that is really FUNNY - devious as hell .... but really funny... Carl B.

Mr. Keneto has one of the most stunning Street Mod 240-Z's I've ever seen. I spent an hour looking at every finely tuned detail on that car at the West Coast Nationals several years ago. The engineering, craftsmanship and detail work are all first class. I understand he has a 510 that is just as nice... FWIW, Carl B.

AZ-240z: The two "D" shaped washers you have - go on the fenders where they lift slightly to cross the radiator core support. (if you only have two of them -that is where they go). A lot of times you'll find them farther back, simply because the assembler had a hand full of them at the time (I'm guessing - no other rime no reason I can find) Many early cars also have hex-head bolts that have a low shoulder (look like bolts that have had the head ground down) - they were used in the headlight nacelles - so they didn't stick out and hit the hood before the hood hits the bump stops. This was because the manufacturing tolerances on the headlight sugar scoops / nacelles were pretty broad, and they vary in thickness. Just my take... Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

If you are looking at a 240-Z, or communicating with a seller - just look at the Data Plate on the Drivers Door Jam. It lists the VIN and Date of Manufacture for cars sold in North America. Nissan used 4 distinct series of numbers along a continuum to identify the various chassis/models being produced for the North American Market. Because various Sales, Production, Calendar Year vs Fiscal Year vs Model Year - reports from Nissan Motors differ, in their intent and methods of data gathering - below is the best information we have... as a result of actual data gathering from owners, reviewing the various Nissan documents and attempting to reconcile all the above. As time passes, we may find a few higher VIN's for any Series.. Series I, Oct 69 into Jan. 71 HLS30-00013 into HLS30 020438 (highest VIN reported to date) These cars were sold/titled as 1969, 1970 and/or 1971 Model Year Vehicles. Series II Jan. 71 into Sept. 71 HLS30-021001 into HLS30 043496 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1971 Model Year Vehicles Series III Sept. 71 into Aug. 72 HLS30-46001 into HLS30 100262 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1972 Model Year Vehicles Series IV Sept. 72 into Aug. 73 HLS30-120001 into HLS30 172767 (highest VIN reported to date) All sold and titled as 1973 Model Year Vehicles. Some details related to the various equipment changes are listed on the Z Car Home Page at: http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm FWIW, Carl B.

Hi E. The above is what I quoted - note it says clearly "not tearing down a car for sale here". I reinforced that by writing ... "We are talking about the car here..." Yet the main jest of your entire response to my Post - was about assigning unscrupulous motives to sellers. I think I understood what you were originally saying... thus no response to your Post. THEN: The Above statement brought my response: "Then a car comes up for sale - and so that we don't hurt our own financial interests - we are supposed to stop finding, and pointing out all the faults with the cars offered for sale?? ." To Which E replied: I think you are saying that's not what was said nor implied by YOU. I felt it was certainly implied in X-Ray's statement. I know that this has been a confusing thread... but I think you have confused my Post, with anything you originally wrote, and I believe that within your farther responses you are intermixing comments about the cars and comments about the sellers.... then farther compounding the discussion by assigning motives to the people that made comments... You did have a few clear statements - to which I agree. But I hasten to add - I said NOTHING about the sellers, nor the discussion related to the sellers motives.. FWIW, Carl B.

Thanks - I'll find some and try it. Carl B.

I'm not so sure I do. Let me see if I understand this correctly. We are talking about the car here..... We are all here to discuss Z Cars, most of us already own one (or more) and have at least some hands on experience in the past year or two. (yes/no?) People that are interested in perhaps buying a Z - come here to gain information about them - and many times that results in them asking us - what should they look for, how much should they pay, what does it cost to refresh/restore or even "save one".... (yes/no?) Then a car comes up for sale - and so that we don't hurt our own financial interests - we are supposed to stop finding, and pointing out all the faults with the cars offered for sale?? We should refrain from warning potential buyers - ie. the people that might become a member of our group - ... we should refrain from pointing out the flaws and thus the additional expenses they might incur with any particular car being considered for purchase ... Sorry, but I see your logic as somewhat backwards.... We should be helping the new buyers get the best car they can - so that they keep them. They should be buying with their eyes wide open. We should also be holding seller's to a level of honesty in disclosure.... I don't believe that telling the truth in public - can hurt any of us in the end. There is also a huge difference in pointing out the flaws of any particular Z - and arguing about it's market value. I'll have to agree that many people here hold much lower opinions as to the market values of many of these cars - than the market actually seems to be telling us... FWIW, Carl B.

I have to disagree with Dave on this one as it relates to the headers. I haven't seen any independent dyno tests that show headers producing more power on a stock or street mod'ed engine, than the OEM exhaust manifold, when you hold everything else the same. In addition to better looks with the headers - you get more under hood heat, noise and usually bad fitting flanges on the cheaper headers. That usually leads to exhaust leaks, which also corrode and then blow out your studs. (cheaper being under $325.00) Cutting the stock exhaust pipe open at the "Y" and going to a larger diameter exhaust system, with a free flowing muffler will pick up between 12 and 15 HP. Leaving the top off the stock Air Cleaner will pick up about 5 HP. If your building a full race engine, and need to tune the exhaust header to specific RPM ranges... sure, go for it. Like the look of "headers" when the car is parked and the hood is up - sure, go for it. Want less long term hassle, less nose in the cabin while cruising, less heat under the intake manifold/carbs, less heat under the hood and against the firewell - keep the OEM exhaust manifold. FWIW, Carl B.

As far as I know - it has to be ordered on-line from Kano Labs. But it's worth the wait, nothing else compares here in the U.S. I've done side by side comparisons with several other types - nothing comes close. FWIW, Carl B.

Personally, I was never able to get the fittings out - with any type of Penetrating oil - until I started using Kroil... With Kroil (Aero Kroil) they simply break free and turn out. http://kanolabs.com FWIW, Carl B.

Your Local Nissan Parts Dept. The OEM plug wires. FWIW, Carl B.

The DATSUN RACING JACKET was designed by Peter Brock and the BRE Racing Team all wore them. They were in turn sold though all the Authorized Datsun Dealers, and were so inexpensive that many Dealers gave them away as promotional items with new car sales. They could be purchased with or without the zip in lining - which was that red quilted material so common in the 70's for winter wear. They were also sold by BRE Racing / InterPart - but with a slight difference. The BRE Team Jackets had a large DATSUN patch on the rear - where the Dealer items did not. I still have mine - it is in very good shape - but sadly I am not - so it no longer fits me. The good news is that BRE is planing to reproduce them... Of course you can wear your's - Pictured below is Chris (aka 26th Z) wearing his at the 12 Hours of Sebring, and standing with Mr. Brock... An original, still in the bag - might bring some pretty high dollars on E-Bay. I've seen them go for over a hundred dollars in the past. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Wes: Great - just make certain that they understand that you do NOT want anything sprayed, coated, covered - on the ouside of the tank. Tell them that you will be doing a restoration to OEM of the exterior - and you want to start with just a very clean exterior. Also - there are four rubber pads on the top of the tank - they are just glued on there - take them off before you take the tank in for cleaning... After it's all repainted and shinny again - you can glue them back on. Ah.. progress.... kind regards, Carl B.

Wes - the tank is beautiful - you should see some of the one's I've pulled. Check your Yellow Pages for "Gas Tank Repairs"... I'm sure there is one in your area that can hot tank aka boil out - a gas tank. FWIW, Carl B.

Thanks for the feeback Eric... good to know you located the problem FWIW, Carl B.

I guess that's a personal perspective... In my experience the 240-Z fares very well in the snow. Far better than most Sports/GT's and far better than any of the Corvettes/Jags I've had. I grew up in Ohio - snow and ice.. were part of the normal driving conditions. I bought my first 240Z in Spokane, Washington - snow, ice and black ice. Lived there for 4 years... Put 68K miles on my 70 Z in 18 months. Which means that most of the time was spent in winter driving conditions... The 240-Z is a wonderful car to drive in the snow, or on the ice... you just have to know how to drive in those conditions, and have the right tires etc. The Z is light weight and fairly easy to get going - stopping on hard pack snow, ice and black ice is difficult in any car. Directional stability at speed in the Z is also pretty good if you stay on top of it. Granted front wheel drive cars are easier to drive in the winter, likewise rear wheel drive cars with rear engines get better starting traction... but the Z's love winter driving...I've had mine to all the major ski resorts in the Pacific Northwest ... back and forth across the Western Mountain Passages too many times to count... Personally, I enjoyed the challenge and excitement of driving in the Winter in the Pacific Northwest... Because of SALT on the roads, I hated it in Ohio... FWIW, Carl B.