Carl Beck

You mentioned "a shop" but I doubt anyone, myself included, has any idea of what that means. A Body Shop, a Tire Shop, a Plating Shop, an Upholstery Shop?.... you'll need them all to refresh or restore a 240-Z. Does "no running engine" mean that the original engine is still with the car, but in non-running condition, or does it mean that the original engine is no longer with the car? A money pit with no real return?... Depends on what you paid for it to begin with, and how much of the original car you can refresh and reuse. Then it depends on the quality of the work done, the location into which you try to sell it and how much time/effort you are willing to put into advertising, promoting, showing and selling. If you can pick up a clean body shell for around a grand, if you keep close track of a rebuild budget, shop for price on everything you need to buy and do a bang-up job on the paint/body work.. A 240-Z with a good running L28 (non turbo) could easily bring $5,500.00 to $6,500.00... With a good running L28 ET (turbo) you might find a buyer with the cash at $8,500.00 (but it gets harder to find them) To make a project like that work out - you almost have to have a shop that specializes in 240-Z's. Where you would have lots of spare parts cars to draw from, known vendors to supply parts you still need at wholesale pricing, and perhaps other friends with which speciality work could be traded. Given the time and effort involved, given the expense involved... you might make a small profit, but it is unlikely to justify your time. On the other hand - if it is used to promote the business and your skills -it is at least tax deductible and most of the return would be in personal satisfaction and ownership fun anyway. FWIW, Carl B.

Timing is everything. Had you bought a very clean 240-Z 10 years ago, you would have had to pay around $3,500.00 to $4,500.00. That would have bought you a one owner, mostly rust free, mostly original 240-Z with less than 60K miles. One which still had it's original factory paint in good shape, shinny bumpers and trim and a clean interior. Had you taken that car completely apart - and preformed a correct restoration, putting it back to "as it left the factory" condition - - doing most of the grunt work yourself, and farming operations like paint and body work out to professionals - - you would most likely have spent in the neighborhood of an additional $10K to $12K. With $13.5K to $16.5K cash in the car - it would sell for between $20K and $25K today, if it had been maintained in freshly restored condition. At that point, you could have owned and enjoyed the car for 10 years, had fun doing the restoration and sold it for more than you had in it. Making a $3,500.00 to $8,500.00 gross profit. (net is a different story however, when you take insurance, storage costs, license fees etc into consideration) Alternatively - if you had just keep the car in the same or slightly better condition than you found it in - today it would sell for $7,500.00 to $9,500.00 perhaps more... While you can still find clean, mostly rust free, one owner 240-Z's that have had great loving care their entire life; and which still have less than 75K miles... for $9,500.00 or so ... The cost of restoration is now about two to three times as much as it would have been 10 years ago. Most paint and body work has doubled and most of the needed replacement parts are three to four times as much. (very limited supply at a time when demand is at its greatest). To do a #1 or #2 condition restoration today, when it's all said and done, will cost at least $20K and it's pretty easy to spend $30K. Nonetheless, 10 years from now, a Pure Stock, perfectly restored Datsun 240-Z could easily be selling for $40K to $50K. Modify it, with an L28, drill holes to mount the fender flairs... paint it a non-stock color etc etc... and the market value will most likely be less than a third of a pure stock example. Lose the original matching number L24 and it would most likely bring even less. The best buy in todays market is the #1 or #2 example you can buy for $18K to $23K... You can't begin to restore one today, to that condition for less than twice the price. Second best buy is the clean, mostly rust free, one owner car - that has had great care for its lifetime and which has 80K to 120K miles - but which is still stock and original. You can buy them for $10K, drive and enjoy them with very little additional investment (less than $5K)... and ten years from now you would not lose much if any money... FWIW, Carl B.

"Sure Fire" way - Yes, hit them with a acetylene torch and see if they melt, or turn into a huge sparkler!! <VBG>... I can't think of a non-destructive way to test the materials... there is most likely some type of acid test to see the reaction, that could be done on some scrapings... Really - just pick them up. Magnesium Alloy wheels will be noticeably lighter - about 65% of the weight of a like Aluminum Alloy wheel. Left to sit for months/years the Mag.'s will turn all but black, and when you remove the thin layer of black, you'll see a tell-tail layer of light green corrosion. The light green is a pinta somewhat like the light green of weathered copper. Only on the mag,'s most people think at first that the light green is a primer of some kind. I'd say scrape some of the black off the back side of the wheel - a thin layer at a time - and see what's under it. Another clue - is very few wheels are actually magnesium alloy. American did produced a very limited quantity of the 13" Libra's in magnesium alloy. The 14" were a slightly different design - the Le Mans wheels. I don't know what would be on the back of the 13" American's cast in magnesium.. I've never had a set.. You can use medium size/grain glass beads to blast the mag.'s - using a lower pressure than normal... about 90psi instead of 125/150psi. As I said before, they will come out of the blast cabinet looking like raw aluminum wheels.. Just make sure you don't blast the outer rim, if you want to keep it polished.. The best stuff I've found for polishing the outer lips - is the old stand-by - Metal Bright (cotton wadding in a can, treated with who knows what). Applied with a lot of elbow grease.... Did you buy the wheels in the ad this thread was started with? Or did you find another set here in Florida? FWIW, Carl

Yes..... If you want to keep them in their "natural" cast state (ie. uncoated) - the magnesium alloy wheels corrode very quickly if subjected to water (spots/drops).. the outer lips dull quickly too, so they require almost constant polishing (relative to what the aluminum wheels do). If you want to paint them - to protect the magnesium alloy - there are very special processes for cleaning, then special primers that have to be used prior to painting. The best method I've found so far, to maintain the magnesium alloy wheels, while letting them gray out to their natural color - is to coat them with Gibbs Brand Gun Oil. If you do get them wet, you should wipe them down as soon as possible with a cloth dampened in the Gibbs Oil. If you don't they wind up with white corrosion spots.. that eat the metal and leave pits. If you look closely at the wheels offered for sale - you can see the lighter gray area's and dirty white spots ... that were most likely white a few weeks after they got wet... and/or it is possible someone just tried to paint over the corrosion. ... which doesn't work for long before it comes through the paint.. Hard to tell without having them in hand for a physical inspection. If you bead blasted them - they would come out looking like the normal aluminum wheels - silver in color - but with a month of two they would be turning light gray, then in a few more months they turn dark gray.. Also - the mag. alloy wheels have a safe service life.... much shorter than the aluminum alloy wheels.. mostly because of the differences in their corrosion rates.. and the fact that most owners won't take the needed care required for the mag. alloy wheels. FWIW, Carl B.

Alan: Thanks for the pictures and the information - A friend in Russia is a modeler, and needed the info for an accurate recreation. I passed it along to him as well. I agree with Chris - the pictures are super. Carl B.

Hi Brandon: A kit for a Fairlady Z 432, would have an S20 engine A kit for a 240Z should have an L24 engine FWIW, Carl B.

Alan: On the 240 ZG as it came from the factory - how would you describe the color/texture of the fender flairs? thanks, Carl B.

Alan: On the 240 ZG as it came from the factory - how would you describe the color/texture of the fender flairs? thanks, Carl B.

I believe they are magnesium - not aluminum... These are not wheels you would want to run on the street - way too hard to maintain

What camera are you taking the pictures with??? They look great... as does the Z. $11K..... I think your not keeping close track... ;-) thanks, Carl

Hi Ron: You would seem to have a couple options - related to where you want to bring the tail pipes out from under the car. The NISMO Factory Sports Option set up brings straight pipes out the center of the car, and I believe that BRE did the same with their C-Production Z's. I'd guess that on the cars set up for road racing, the stock fuel tank was replaced with a safety fuel cell - otherwise the tail pipes would seem to be very close to the gas tank... and somewhat low to the ground. Bob Sharp seems to have run a set up sold by Datsun Competition that brought the tail pipes out to the left side - in the stock location. The Datsun Competition setup had the option of running straight pipes or two mufflers. If you are thinking of putting a single oval muffler, with two inlets/outlets - in the stock location (instead of two individual glass packs)... Then you'll most likely have to go with something like the Magnaflow http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=475 I could be wrong, but as I recall, you need a muffler on the left that is about 14" long - so the example above might not be the exact one... You'll have to get exact measurements... Most muffler shops have catalogs of universal fit mufflers and they could easily come up with something to fit your needs. FWIW, Carl B.

Anyone recognize this specific radiator overflow/recovery bottle? I need this exact one if I can find it. thanks, Carl

Hi Jason: Can you give me the dimensions of the MSA tank? Of picture of it in the car so I can get a perspective of it's size? thanks, Carl

Speaking of DSP - I see Mark Jaremko finished 2nd. this year in DSP. I believe he finished in 1st for the previous two years. Mark was about 4 when I bought my first 240-Z from his father Paul Jaremko at Valley Datsun, in March of 1970. Paul was/is quite a driver himself, winning Datsun one of their first SCCA Regional Championship in 63 or 64 AIR - and is mentioned in John B Rae's history of Datsun/NISSAN in the U.S.A. FWIW, Carl B.

I agree - that first picture has beautiful symmetry, and that is the best perspective of the car to show it's Classic body lines. I'd at least have that one blown up into a Poster Size for your wall... Great job on the car and the photo's.. Carl B.

Hi Triari: I would not replace the steel fuel lines ... It really isn't all THAT simple to do anyway. All you need to do is clean the original steel lines out. Most likely that black tar is from the rubber lines decaying and it's unlikely much of it got too far into the steel lines. Disconnect the lines (fuel feed and fuel return) at the engine compartment. Get a small funnel and clamp it to the fuel line.... Jack the front of the car up a few inches. Pour Isopropyl Alcohol {Rubbing Alcohol ) into the funnel and let it gravity drain to the rear (you already have the rear lines disconnected from the tank... just put a catch pan back there to catch it when it comes out). You can buy Rubbing Alcohol at any drug store - and in larger quantities its pretty cheap. Look at the label and see if you can find anything above 70%... sometimes you can and its better for cleaning. Every half hour or so - check the funnel and refill... When you see the Alcohol run quickly out the back.. you know that nothing is restricting the flow - take some compressed air and blow the lines out. If the flow is restricted.. just let the alcohol dissolve it as it runs slowly past it... Next you can run a bit of fuel injector cleaner through the lines....(you use the Alcohol first because its cheap and effective)...AMOCO/CHEVRON used to sell a product called Techron with Toluene as the active ingredient - any fuel injector cleaner with Toluene will work just fine (or any Fuel System Cleaner with Toluene) Toluene is a common solvent, you can buy it at most Sherwin Williams Paint stores... Toluene is also a common ingredient in all gasolines, in much reduced proporations...It will clean most crude found in gas lines - out. Plug the rear of the lines - and pour the fuel injector cleaner (or pure toluene) into them... let it sit for a few minutes... then unplug the lines and let it run out... If the fluid is VERY dirty repeat the fuel injector cleaner... I've never had to do that more than once... No need to clean the toluene out of the lines, it mixes fine with gasoline (actually will raise the octane rating of gasoline). By now the lines should be clean enough for another 100K miles... and they will get cleaner as you drive and run fresh gas though them... Install a new gas filter and drive the car... Just my opinion FWIW, Carl B.

Sorry - that is completely WRONG and NOT SAFE AT ALL. The 240-Z's weight less than 2400 lbs. in part because the body is made of very thin sheetmetal. Surface rust, will work it's way though the very thin metal in very short order. No fun removing that tar mat - but doing it NOW might save you the expense and work of replacing the floorboards six months from NOW. FWIW, Carl B.

Whoever sold you the car - used a spray can to paint over the floorboards. You can see the over-spray on the black vinyl, and it's the wrong color for a Series I Z... Maybe they thought it would look bettter with fresh paint - maybe they though it would stop some rust that they saw, and maybe they were just trying to hid the rust they saw. The only way to know is to remove the tar mat. Takes about a day the first time - takes a couple of hours after you have done it several times. Take a knife - and cut a line though that new green paint - and you will easily see that the paint is covering a black tar mat.. In other words, the green paint isn't on top of metal - rather it's on top of an old tar mat. You can remove the tar mat by using a heat gun to warm the tar mat - then use a putty knife to peel it off the floorboards. It takes a little practice to get the process just right -heat it too much and it melts to adhear better to the metal - heat it too little and it breaks off in brittle chunks -- - but heat it just the right amount and the putty knife will roll it off the metal floorboards. I agree with everyone - you have to remove the original tar mat to really see / inspect the floorboards. As for the small hole under the seat - that is usually (not always) the result of rust that formed where the frame rail was welded to the unibody. You have to get under the car and look more closely at that area. If you catch it soon enough, it's easy to metal patch it (ie. weld a small piece of metal in place of the rust that has been cut out). FWIW, Carl B.

Looks great Frank - now the next best thing to getting your car back from the body shop - is putting that first coat of wax on, and running the towel over that super smooth finish as you take the wax off... Just something satisfying about getting physical with the body on that car... when the towel glides so easily over the paint.... and you can see yourself reflected in a deep shine. That's when you really know it was worth the expense... FWIW, Carl B.

The blue interiors are pretty rare today. If the car is in the condition a 60K mile example should be - I'd sure keep it pure stock. Grab another higher mileage, more well used 240-Z body if you want to trick something out. (no reason not to do both). "Early Production" usually means cars built between Oct. 1969 and say Feb. 1970. Feb. of 71 would have been 16 months into the production of 240-Z's. Did you mean Feb. of 1970?? FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Dan: Must have been in a catalog before 1985... The 85 catalog shows only the larger 3 piece IMSA style rear spoiler (and lots of new stuff for the 280ZX's). The Front Spoiler as on your Z is shown - but off the car... By 85 the "GT Kit" from BSR was composed of fender flairs, front and rear spoilers and head light covers... (copy attached)... Seems I had earler BSR Catalogs around here somewhere, I bought a lot of stuff from them in the late 70's and early 80's - I'll keep looking. FWIW, Carl B.

I agree - that is the type of car I encourage people to step up to, and buy today. (given that it is as advertised). Always inspect cars like this in person and go over them with a fine tooth comb - if it's as good as the seller represents it to be - its most likely worth every penny of $12K today. (although I'd like to buy it at something closer to $10K, I wouldn't be afraid to pay the extra $2K if necessary). I'd call it a nice #3 Condition Car. A #2 Condition car would have all Cad. Plated parts in place, and all bright and shinny. No dents anywhere and the paint would be in far better shape. Remember that a #2 Condition car would win National Level Show Competitions if a #1 Condition car doesn't show up. A #1 and #2 Condition car, as originally defined by Kruse's Old Cars Price Guide, are very very close to the same... Take it home, take it apart and restore it - you'd have about two years of real fun - you'd put another $20K into it - and three years from now you'd have a high end #2 or done carefully enough a #1 car worth $35K to $45K. This would be a real "fun" restoration project because it would be such a pleasure to take apart... and these are the types of cars the body men actually love to work on... amazing condition... worth their best efforts. Or take it home, drive it on the weekends, enjoy it at club meets and local shows.. and three years from now you'll have an $16K to $18K example... Either way, if your looking for a Series 1 240-Z - this is the type of car you should be looking for... and willing to grab it when it comes along. There are still a few out there, but every year there are fewer and fewer that come on the market.. and they get ever more expensive... FWIW, Carl B. Old Cars Price Guide says: #1 EXCELLENT - Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. A 95+ point show car that is not driven. In national show judging a car in #1 condition is likely to win top honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars. #2 FINE: - Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also an extremely well maintained original showing very minimal wear. Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows, except when squared off against a #1 example in its own class. It may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure. #3 - Very Good: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable inside and out. Plus combinations of well-done restoration and good operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts. This is a 20 footer - that is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside we might detect some wear on the drivers seat, foot pedals, and carpet. The chrome trim while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp mirror like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment on the car are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles seen at car shows are #3's..... #4 Good - A driveable vehicle needing no or only minor work to be functional. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. All components may need restoration to be excellent, the car is mostly usable "as is". This is a driver - It may be in the process of restoration or it owner may have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs a lot of help.. #5 Restorable - Needs complete restoration of body, chassis, and interior. May or may not be running, but isn't weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful only for parts. This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it is essentially all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won;t have him doing a lot of chasing for missing parts. #6 Parts Car - May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts.

Hi Rick: I was going to say that: A) Any man that would marry a gal with three kids, then have twins too boot - deserves to lose his Z. and I find it somewhat "odd" that his wife seems to be selling the car.... She must be one super fine woman indeed. but then I decided to just comment on the car ;-) FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike: I knew of the Bob Sharp GT-33s but really never found too much specific information about them. I had seen this one advertised for sale back in 2001. Very hard to place a value on the car. On the one hand it would be an interesting piece of "Bob Sharp" or "Bob Sharp Dealership" history, and most certainly a fun car to take to auto shows. Lots to talk about and show... Something that you won't see several of at any show.... On the other hand, to put it back in really "show" condition would take a bit of work and money even at this point. After which it might be hard to find a buyer willing to pay much of a premium price for a Dealer Special... If it was just a clean, rust free 280Z, with 78K miles - in the Northeast - it should sell for $6,500.00 to $7,500.00 today. How much more it's unique history is worth, will be up to the buyer and seller I would guess. FWIW, Carl B.

If this is the same car - it was advertised some time ago by the original owner at around $15K as I recall. Most likely sold for something less. A great buy at that price too... This is indeed a great #2 car - but a few things keep it too far out of the #1 category to command much more than $20K in todays market. ( If you paid that much for it, you'd still be getting a bargain, because you couldn't begin to restore a car to this condition today for less than twice that amount.) You'll note that the Cad and/or Zinc plated parts on the engine and in the engine compartment - have lost their original bright shinny "fresh" gold/yellow finish. That's the result of driving 19K miles rather than 9K. Note no pictures of the undercarriage... again 19K miles begins to show wear and surface rust etc... Being a 260Z also bumps it down a notch from the top price level cars. Being an A/T also hurts resale value a bit. Most Collectors hate the dealer installed body side moldings as well. Setting a $45K BIN simply shows that the seller wants the auction to run it's full course, and sets up the mental image in a prospective buyers mind that "maybe" it is worth that much. On the other hand most prospective buyers lose interest when the auction runs 21 Days... Buying most classics is done on an impulse... and 21 days gives prospective buyers too much time to think about it - and back off or out... Just my opinion... FWIW, Carl B.