JRSGTS

OK, I call Static timing as when you set the engine to TDC and rotate DIST. till we see a spark on #1. Gives a base line to fire the engine.. I have firing order at 153624 counter clockwise on the dist. At idle I have the timing running way to retarded. Timing mark is way up near the top of the pulley. When I rotate the dist. towards the timing marks it runs like crap and drops cylinders...I was thinking it was bad calibration in the dist. What else could be messing me up? Above 2K rpm's it sounds pretty good, but if you rev it, it will spark knock like crazy...

sscanf, Thanks for the info. Really cool swap. I already have a reman. coming from Advance For not much more than the Rock one...I'll try it. The one from Z car was WAY more. If it doesn't solve everything, I might just do the conversion to rule out module problems. Zed, Nah No originality issues about this ride.. Have ya seen the picture? If it keeps behaving this way it just might get small blocked!! Just kidding.. As far as timing goes, I Can static time it NP. It revs like crazy on start up and if allowed to idle below 1500 it starts dropping out cylinders...Sounds like a tractor...Crappy previous mechanics exhaust work. My vac. pump is broken but if I suck on the adv. can's hose I can't move the adv. mechanism. Not very scientific I know. With the car running I can't even find the timing mark. Looks like it's somewhere WAY ATDC....If I bring it anywhere near spec. It falls to crap. If the new dist. fixes it I'll talk to Z car. I doubt they'll give a refund though. No one stands behind there crap any more. I'd be happy with store credit, but we'll see...I'll keep you posted.

I think my Reman dist.'s F'D!! Can't time it no matter what. Won't run for crap below 2K RPM's and the it's pinging to beat the band!.... pulled the new dist. out, all the screws holding the pick ups in have grit in them and I keep finding "Media" floating around inside. The Vac advance is bound up. don't want to take it all the way apart. I want to try to send it back....Advance has another coming Thursday. $60 cheaper than Z car source. Really don't have a lot of hair left to pull out so this better work!

Yeah Lenny, as soon as I hit the key with fresh plugs it fired right over! Idled way high, My air bleed was cranked wide open. Settled the idle by bringing that way in, was just about to play with timing when the coolant hose blew. Still lots to tune I think. when the idle was low it kept trying to drop out some cylinders ( Like a miss fire) Give it a little gas and it came right back. Funny when it does that it sounds like The exhaust opens up close to the engine...I have some exhaust leaks so they must just be more audible with the miss...? What little I saw of the timing looked like it was pretty far out so that'll require some messing with. That Fed Ex guy said he had to lighten the weights in the dist. to get the advance in later because of detonation. I want to make sure I get that right..Detonation is a killer! Going to play with it some this morning. Short day today though. It's my wife's birthday, And I still have another car on my lift that's been there for too long with barely an end in sight! No complaints. Thanks again though Lenny. I'll get both ECU's in the mail to you before the end of the week. If I'm having trouble dialing it in I may be calling... JR.

Just my 2 cents...Check my thread "Noobie with fuel pump question" Lot's of good info there. To tell if the temp sensor is working right check the FSM for testing pin#13 to ground at ECU. ( on 76 at least) That gives you the range the temp sensor is putting out. I was in the same place as you. With "Super len's help after all my tests we determined the ECU must be at fault. After installing a replacement, at first I still had nothing....BUT all the spark and fuel in the world won't help if you plugs are fouled! All the trying and dying killed the NEW plugs I had. 6 new ones and she fired right over! Still needs tuning, but runs better than it has in years! Also, make sure all the starting attempts didn't "Wash" your cylinders with fuel. No compression, no run. You also don't want to run it on fuel saturated oil... KISS= Keep it simple silly ( Stupid) JR.

Lets see if I can do this....HMMM I downloaded a pic.... How do I get it here? Wait, it's in attachments...Ha! got it! See it is definitely not a cherry western car anymore! after I have it running and driving right I still have a bit of sub frame to put under it...

Update! Finally some progress! Firstly, Merry Christmas to all. Hope everyone had a healthy, Happy one. Many Thanks to Lenny for the ECU. We have a running car!!! Sounded pretty damn strong, ran up to temp, and right before I got to play with some timing.....Blew a coolant hose! . Not surprised... Just ran out of small clamps at the end of the day. I'll fix that Monday. Was feeling like the timing was funky, Idle too high, when it did go low it sounded like it was misfiring. So I still got some work to do. NBD. Just glad to hear it actually run! I was beginning to wonder. Funny quick story...One of the many Fed Ex persons was here and wanted to check out the cars out front. I say sure. There's a 68 GTX and a 72 Road runner, and the Z. He goes right to the Z and starts laughing and carrying on. Turns out he bought this car in 1979 in Arizona!! Drove it out here in 84! Sold it in the late 80's To someone else. My customer bought it 3 years ago from someone who had it for like 7 years and hardly used it. So there's still a big gap in time of what this little Z has been through. It is far from the super nice "Western" car that the Fed Ex guy described! This car is rough! Good news is he says it has the bottom end from an 81 so higher Compression. Also the 5 speed from the 81!! I had no idea cause I've never driven the car. So, once I get it running right, get the clutch and brakes functioning, It'll be great to drive!! Sorry this was so long!! Thanks again Lenny!! JR.

Oh sorry! Just found the chart! Says 50 degrees F. should have between 3.25 and 4.15K ohms. So I'm good. It was about 33 out when I pushed it in, and it was only in the shop about a half hour before the test. So it was still kind of chilly! Think I need an ECU and ANOTHER set of plugs! UGH. JR.

OK...Thank you Sarah for all the input! Give me some relief about the Dist. and the AFM. First and foremost, I did the resistance check on #13. Good memory Zed. I had 3.53Kohms to ground. Guess that's continuity. And as I recall I tested resistance between the pins on the sensor before I installed it and it was right around the same. I could not find the "chart in the FSM, but did find the test. All it says is I should have cont. or suspect a bad CTS. I also went through and re-cleaned the connector,pigtails etc. Checked my plugs again. They must have fuel fouled bad, but between the 2 sets I got fire on all 6 before reinstalling. Barely ran. Couldn't even get it to clean out like yesterday and act like it was running on all 6...BUT, guess what.. Rechecked with the noid light..Back to super bright flashing!! The owner brought over another AFM he had, but it was from his 83 engine. missing pins 36 + 39 so that's no help. I'm pretty convinced it's not the problem now anyhow. Pm'ing Lenny about an ECU...

Another thought, What about the air temp sensor in the AFM? The AFM passed the resistance checks and a saw change on my meter with flap movement. Though I didn't watch it carefully to see if it was perfect or not. I saw resistance drop so called it functional, but doesn't the temp sensor have bearing on inj. pulse?

Len, That sounds very helpful! After I get it back in the shop and do those other tests, I will let you know. Sarah, The connector was intact with a Minor bit of visible oxidation. I have some micro files, so I cleaned it up real good. The plastic and the wire clip are still in decent shape. I will confirm all condition with the resistance check. I did see the connectors on Ebay. I was looking for a temp. switch. (They don't exist anymore). I think I can buy those connectors at Advance also should I need one. Zed, I am concerned about the ign. Module, and or the dist. pick ups. Z car source just rebuilt this distributor, so I really hope its ok. Don't know if all this abuse has hurt it. When I pulled it out of the shop it would run, terribly, but it would run. I was trying to start it for the owner, it tried then stopped even trying. Something let go. Not surprising. This thing is beginning to get to me...

I promise I'll do that as soon as I PUSH it back in the shop... I had to move it out to finally get some other work done around here.... I did go back before dark after leaving the plugs out a while and letting it dry out a couple hours. It was probably in the upper 30's by then. Put the plugs in, lots of battery, rolling over fine. It barely tries to start maybe twice, then nothing, just spinning won't even sputter. This is with the fuel line to the CSV removed and plugged. I check the inj. #1 and #6 I'm getting wicked bright flashes every third....Then it goes to dim flashes. First time I have ever seen it do this. Checked both inj. Same result, so I think great it won't flood out. Keep trying to start, won't even try... Figure it's already flooded, pull the plugs. They're not that wet....Blow out the Put all the plugs back in the wires and spin the motor. My sparks all F'd up! I got fire on 6 and 1, intermittent on a couple others, The battery starts to tire by then, I just threw some hair at it and walked away... I will do the resistance test. But the sensor is new now. I doubt there is any issue there. Something is/was firing my injectors way to much. I do plan on pulling the whole rail off and see how they fire and if they leak. I wish the damn thing could at least spit out codes. I'm wondering if the ECU was hurt from being wired wrong? Who knows who jumped power and grounds where before I got here. I really am sorry for how long this has dragged on. I'm very grateful for all of your help and patience. JR.

I'll try that. I was able to move it. Starts like crap, but sorta clears at higher RPM. The owner came by and I tried to show him...It started on 3 cyl. then never cleared. Now it won't even try!! UGH. and that was with the CSV disconnected. With the plug off it can it still spray fuel? I suppose if it was stuck open right? I don't think that's my big problem any way because I was seeing such a bright"Noid" light. Could my AFM be the culprit? Also, have tried nearly everywhere for a coolant switch...Not in production for the 76 anymore....UGH!B I'm walking away to get the fuel fumes out of my head...

Thanks Sarah. Wondering when I'd find you on here... I'll try those tips. It will start better with the CSV unplugged. However I still am clueless on this coolant switch. Can't find one anywhere easy. I'll call Zcar source but it will be a week out... Came up with another question.. Should this car have an O2 sensor? Cause it doesn't....

OK, Coolant sensor made a LITTLE difference. I can make it run. Starts barely. Sounding like it's running on 3 cyl. gently rev it and the others come alive...Still eye tearingly rich with black plugs. If I jumper the red lead to the temp control relay it runs better. I must need that sensor pretty bad. Doesn't seem like all of it though. Looking back, my AFM resistance checks were a bit high. Could that be bad? I know there is an air temp sensor in there too. Trouble codes and data would come in real handy right now! I did actually move it under it's own power! Progress I guess. Need a "Hell fire" test mule Lenny!?

Could be why I had to RETARD my timing so much...I know I said that wrong in my earlier post, I always phrase it backwards.. If I don't have an EGR valve, it must control spark adv. in my application correct? So there is probably no living without it.

HMMM, well I have a Non California dual pick up dist. Seems I'll need this to work...Guess I have to find one somewhere...Any clue on the wiring. Should it go to the red lead? It (the red lead) traces back to the relay as per the wiring diagram, but doesn't reach. Maybe there was another lead that is missing? I can make one NP, just trying to make sure....

Or your Pulley has slipped... Take a good look at it. If it has slipped it means it is about to fail...Never a good thing. Looking at your pic. it appears the rubber is deteriorating. When that spins apart bad things can happen. I'd order one, if it has moved, it is junk. JR.

Cool, Cool so I'm on the right track. I am still unclear on what the temperature "Switch" does. It appears to be wired to one of the relays on the pass. side inner fender. According to the color Schematic the bullet connector is red. The lead off the sensor is blue?? There is a red lead coming out of the harness on top of the intake, but it is way too short. I also have one pair of bullet connectors coming out of the harness near the temp. sensors, one white, one black. Any ideas? I'll let ya know how it runs after I get the sensor in. THANKS!! JR.

Another quick question? Does this system have any kind of diagnostic link? Is there any way to read data? And I mean like Data I can read like basic sensor's and such... JR.

Wasn't too hard a guess because the original spade conn. was still in tact and I read ..Somewhere That there should be one in that line.....AND still never clued in to it going to the wrong Batt. post!! UGH... Moving on.. I heard it run!! As predicted Sarah, It runs like crap... I changed out all the old fuel.(Full tank!) Blew out the lines and filter.( now new). Installed NGK'S Barely firing. My "fix" for the coolant "switch" didn't work. The wires broke off too short. Auto parts can't find me one. I really don't want to wait a week for another. What does this thing do? The FI bible doesn't talk about it. I do have a new coolant "Sensor" coming in the AM. The other similar looking sensor the thermotime switch correct? The only way I could make it run was to advance the hell out of my timing, I know I'm rich as rich gets. Can this ALL be the coolant sensor? Really cool stuff you're doing len with the ECU build. Been following it..Not understanding a lot, but I get the idea. Love that cam, crank sensor, with COP idea! Any help on the sensor stuff would as always be appreciated!! JR.

Good to have a disclaimer. Just to clarify. The car had BOTH the Pos. And the Neg. ECU leads on the Bat.+ I took a guess at which was which and got lucky. Now I have proper FP activation, and injector fire. Now here's the update: Typical Monday, couldn't get new plugs till 11:30 unless I wanted Autolite's. No, waited for the NGK's Did try it with the old plugs now that they dried out...Barely tried. I did rewire my temp. switch, changed the oil and filter, Buttoned up all the wiring, Double checked inj. pulse on #1 and #6, good fire, but the bulb is quite bright...? Wish I could read Data on the coolant sensor to see what it thinks it is..I have a feeling it's out of range. Plugs getting very wet very fast. Got my new plugs, but they only sent 4...Figures. Tried them a couple times but didn't want to foul them. No luck. The fuel is definitely old. I've run cars on worse smelling, but I'm going to eliminate the variable and drain the tank and lines. Kill time till the other plugs get here. I did try to start it without the CSV in case it is flooding. Might have seemed like it helped a little but still no start. I'll go get fuel smelly and report back later... JR.

Zed's right.. Check for your static timing. Pull #1 plug, bump the starter till compression blows your finger off the hole. Check your mark. You might need to rotate it a bit to get to zero. The check under your Distributor cap, make sure rotor is pointed to #1. If not, you can either move the dist. or the wires. Just make sure you don't mess up the firing order. Also helps determine if timing jumped or not. To check for timing chain stretch. With your timing mark in view. Rotate engine by hand one direction ( I know it's a bitch) Note timing mark position. This is the hard part. Now you have to watch the mark as you rotate the engine back the other way. Stop as soon as the rotor starts to move. The more degrees of engine rotation before the rotor moves, the worse it is. On a V8 we generally allow around 10-15 degrees max.

OK Last comment! Found the temp switch on the diagram finally..(Old eyes!) Np there. I'll get a switch or at least rewire this one before I try to refire. NOW, On to couch potatoe / football land!

Oh yeah..we be all kinds of flooded, But it's going to work! Awesome Lenny! Of course now I go back and look at the wiring and see the big gang of them heading for ground! Then look at my car and see the link headed for + and not see The problem! Always clearer looking backwards with someone else's eyes... I will go tomorrow and get plugs, FF. Fresh oil and filter(Heavily contaminated, so I really don't want to run it today anyway) Cap, rotor, wires, look fine. I do need the "Water temp. switch" The one with the eyelet ground wire. Which corroded enough to break the bolt. I'll rerun that some where. The blue lead was broke off. I can't find it on the wiring diagram. See all the other sensors...(Thermotime, AAR, water temp,CSV) But not a temp. "switch" Any hints..? Any way, I'm really confident That you found it for me and this problem is Kicked in the butt! Winner, Winner I always say! Now I can sell him on the rest of what this car needs! But for now it's time to enjoy a Sunday and watch some Football!! :) Sarah,Lenny, Zed, Thank you very much. This place is way cool, cool! I'll be sure to post some up and running shots. JR.