rossiz

I saw this on the Arizona Z Car site manifold.html It sure looks tempting, as I'm not totally comfortable with the fuel injection on my '78 280z... the hot-start issues, leaky injectors, high-pressure system, sketchy electrical connections, multiple sensors, AFM, etc. shake my confidence as my car is my DD and I need to be able to count on it to start/run when I turn the key. I've been following the HellFire thread, which sounds promising, but I worry about going further into the techno-abyss. I know some say the FI system is solid, but the allure of a simple, single carb (no synchronizing, no SU woes) is strong. The fact is, I actually understand carbs and can fettle them if needed - not so much with the electronic wizardry... I'd love to hear if anyone has tried this setup and what their impressions are. I will drive the car all year round (in Seattle, so no extreme cold/snow issues) and just want a dependable car that runs well all the time. I currently have stock exhaust, but will do a custom 2.5" from the stock manifold back into a glass-pack resonator then a magnaflow at the rear. Thanks in advance, Geoff

ok, so i'm a little confusticated here... if the accumulator "stores pressure" between the fuel pump and the rail, wouldn't a drop in pressure due to throttle opening/closing simply pull a little of the "stored" pressure, which would be continually replaced by the pump? i'm not sure how the accumulator would make the system any less responsive, as the pressure would always be there - either from the accumulator or the pump itself, right?

nice project! i'm a relative newbie myself - first z-car picked up in november. zed head is right: there's a weird emotional trip to wondering if it's "the right deal" based on price alone. since i picked up my '78 280 i've seen many other cars for sale and wondered if i got the right one - but in the end, you just pick a starting point and go from there. not having to do a lot of bodywork is a huge plus, as well as knowing the history - always better to start with a good one than deal with years of neglect/abuse/bad PO mods...

funny how we choose what to keep with us - my selection was based on the things i fixed when restoring the car, so it was all about the various systems and how to make emergency repairs. since i have a new battery i never thought about jumper cables (duh...) and i with my spare gone i need a plugger kit and a pump. i have a great little unit that i keep in my motorcycle emergency kit - it's a small pump that runs off the engine compression of 1 cylinder. you put it in a spark plug hole and the compression cycle runs a little piston inside the pump to fill your tire with clean air. it's tiny, about the size of a spark plug, with a length of pressure hose and a valve fitting. the thing will inflate a sports bike rear tire in a couple of minutes - way better than those little cigarette lighter air compressors. gotta get me another one for the z...

i ditched the spare and lowered the false floor a few inches to pick up some more cargo space - actually makes quite a difference, especially towards the rear where the stock space sort of zeros out in height. i pulled out all the spacer brackets and replaced them with pieces of 1" diameter pvc pipe cut to the new length spacer (around an inch or so, depending on the location). then i made a bumper out of a bolt & lock nut in the spare tire holder and capped it with a vinyl cap so the wood deck had a soft spot to land. the wood deck needed trimming as the shock towers get larger at the bottom and i made the two side pieces (either side of the lift-up panel) a bit larger - cut 'em from 1/4" masonite. then i cut the forward end about 8" back and put in a piano hinge. this lets the front lift up, exposing the holes for tool bins on the 240 which the 280 back abandoned. i put together a pair of aluminum angle extrusions to get the front lip up to the top of the carpet behind the seats and mounted the stock luggage stop. when it's closed you can't tell it's even there, but it lifts right up for all my tools & goodies.

here are a few pics of the tool kits i put together to keep my z running. looking at it doesn't exactly give a feeling of confidence in the car... but i can't afford to be left stranded as this is my dd. i was looking for a decent tool pouch and couldn't find one that i liked, so i just sewed these up out of leftover vinyl with velcro closures - nothing special, but does the job. the tools are also not exactly "shop grade", as i don't plan to need to use them all that often (hopefully NEVER!). as for the jack and tire tools, i keep the stock pouch in the spare tire recess. wrapping the jack in a towel, lie it on it's side and crank it open until it presses against the spare tire attachment post in the center - keeps it from rattling around back there. list of components is as follows: Electrical Multi-tool Various gauges of wire Crimp terminations & connectors Fuses Electrical tape Fuel Fuel hose Vacuum hose (large & small) Vacuum plugs Clamps Zip ties Mechanical Spanner set Ratchet & common sizes + plug socket Standard & needle nose pliers Razor knife Multi-head drivers (standard + stubby) Gorilla tape (must have) Silicone wrap (will fix a hose in a pinch) Gloves & paper towel

Tomo - funny you should start this thread... i bought my first z in november and it was supposed to be a "reliable dd". after gutting it to the pans and doing a driveway restoration i've had multiple stall-outs and one tow truck ride home. i've fixed/replaced everything that i could think of (uh-oh, dangerous thing to say!) and vowed never to be w/out tools again. i took inventory of every tool i've needed to do the work i've done to date - which is a surprisingly compact group of tools - and bought a set to keep in the car. i have 3 kits in addition to the jack bag: mechanical - wrenches, ratchets, pliers, drivers, zip ties, gorilla tape, etc. electrical - crimp/cutters, connectors, wire, tape, fuses, bulbs, electrical tape, etc. fuel - clamps, clamp drivers, fuel hose, vacuum hose, spare vacuum fittings, vacuum plugs, razor knife, silicone tape, etc. i used my daughter's sewing machine and some spare black vinyl i had leftover from another project and made 3 kit pouches, each sized for the stuff in the kit. at first i put them in the spare tire well (i ditched the hard-as-rock 35 yr old spare and lowered my back deck board) but have since made a separate hinged area up front that accesses the two tool-wells that are left over from the 240 design. - all fits well up there, including a foam kneeler pad (stolen from wife's garden supplies) which is sure nice to have if you're stalled in work clothes... of the 3 pouches i made, the mechanical tool kit was the first and therefore the wobbliest (i got better with practice). the datsun tool roll in your link looks really nice - i'll have to check out my tool set and see how well it would accommodate the necessary items.

nice car - you CA folks get the pick of the litter with CLEAN body work! another point of entry for exhaust gas is the rubber boot for the shift lever. it's underneath the leather/vinyl boot cover and has a compression ring seal to the floor tunnel and is supposed to seal tightly to the shifter shaft. after 40+ years there's a good chance it's cracked and/or deteriorated (even in sunny CA). it's a cheap part, but a bit of a pain to replace as it's under the center console.

yeah, i'm guessing it's cut-n-weld and be done with it. had to ask though, as many have done this mod and i hoped someone had found the ever-elusive "easier way"...

thanks for the reply chuck - i'm actually not going to have any rear bumper, just smooth bodywork. that's the idea behind getting a replacement panel: to avoid all the filler in the old bumper mounts or having to cut them out and weld in new metal. your z looks mighty fresh...

1978 280z with 240z front bumper (from Black Dragon) i'm getting ready to do the body work at the rear to clean up all the holes/mounting points from removing the rear bumper. just wondering if anyone has a source for a 240 replacement body panel or even a blank one that i could just weld in and reduce the amount of filler/patching. i'd rather have new metal than a bunch of patches and filler back there... any ideas?

bronze can be pretty soft - depending on the alloy, and the spring puts quite a bit of force on the detents. perhaps your bushings have already begun to get those clickety divets again...

i'd be happy to get some info on your valve captain-O the one in FastW's link said it was only rated up to 20psi so i found another one that cracks at 1psi and is rated up to 115 psi (many options for inline fuel check valves) it was a whopping $9 so no biggie if it isn't a forever solution...

i ordered a check valve - will install and see how it affects pressure readings. will also purchase another pressure gauge to check accuracy of the first (hardware store variety) thanks for the replies

my drivers side door had an annoying, loud click at the hinge - inspection revealed that the roller bushing was very worn with deep ruts. looks like at some point the roller froze and scraped against the hinge detents, causing little furrows that then increased over time. was inspired by another post about re-building door hinges and decided to take the plunge and pull off the door to fix it. taking off the door is simple, but most definitely a two-person job. 6 bolts and its off. then i took the lower hinge off the car, put it in my vice and tapped out the roller pin. the previous post about hinge re-building had a replacement part number from mcmaster-carr and they were perfect fit. compressed the spring against the hinge arm in the vice and tapped the pin back in, couple of squirts of paint on the back of the hinge and the door was back on in less than an hour. and NO MORE CLICK!! pic is new roller vs. old and the part info.

ok, i installed a fuel pressure gauge between the fuel filter and the rail and i'm not sure how to interpret what i'm seeing because i don't really know how it's SUPPOSED to function... from key OFF, pressure = 0psi, turn key to RUN and i get a blip at the gauge, sometimes it jumps to 5 or 10psi, sometimes up to 20 - not consistent, but always a blip from key RUN, pressure = whatever left from "blip" above, turn key to START and pressure jumps up to 30psi while cranking and remains there once engine starts/idles engine running, pressure = 30psi at idle, goes up to ~35 when i rev the engine up above 3k rpm, returns to 30 when it drops back down to lower speeds engine shutoff, pressure sometimes stays at 30psi for as long as i watch it (waited a few minutes), sometimes slowly releases, sometimes drops right to 0psi if i click key back/forth from OFF to RUN repeatedly (playing with the "blip") to try and get a consistent result, the pressure hits different levels, sometimes drops back to 0psi when the key goes to OFF. things that seem odd to me: my readings on how the fuel relay system is supposed to work indicate that the fuel pump should receive NO power unless either the engine is being cranked or running with either the alternator or fuel pressure signals present. so why the "blip" at key in RUN? pressure seems low, and should it vary w/engine speed? my gauge could be off, which might account for the low reading but not the variation... the car does run well and doesn't seem to show any signs of lean condition or stumbling. the inconsistent/intermittent pressure drain-down seems to point to leaky injectors - is this gas going right into my cylinders and into my oil??

Thanks all for the responses. At this point I believe I've replaced all sensors and connectors, including CSV and associates plumbing. I plan on just driving/observing for a while to assess the cumulative effect of all these changes and then assess if I still have a problem. I'm particularly interested in understanding the symptoms diagnosis of leaky injectors, as this is the one component I have not touched (short of new plugs/connectors). Would a fuel pressure gauge allow me to monitor if pressure is falling off after shutoff and indicate fuel leaking into the cylinders? This would be a huge worry, as I don't want to contaminate my oil...

thanks for the replies - dumb question: CLT stands for what??

i've read a ton of threads on the hot-start issue and the general consensus seems to be it's a lean condition due to heat soak, vaporized fuel, hot injectors, low fuel pressure, etc. this all makes sense, but my experience is of an overly rich condition and it even fouled all my plugs. the background: '78 280z, 3rd owner, PO had it for 30 yrs as garaged DD. when i bought it i thought it ran pretty well (first z car, so i had no idea what it could really do). found leaky heater hose in cabin, flushed system and found much rust. replaced all coolant hoses, big and small throughout including heater hoses. then turned to electrical: moved engine bay relays into cabin and replaced fusible links w/maxifuse, also mounted in cabin, new wire loom for all primary power including battery leads to starter. next fuel system: all new fuel lines in engine bay, new filter between tank & pump, new pressure regulator, all new injector plugs/connectors, all new vacuum hoses in engine bay (dried/cracked), new pcv (gunked/stuck) and hose (burnt/rotted), new AAR (frozen), new AFM & boots, removed/blanked off EGR system (frozen/broken), new K&N cold air intake. lastly, ignition: new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, set spark to 33 degrees BTDC max advance at 3,000 rpm, vacuum advance works perfectly w/no leaks. after all this the car was transformed - i mean WOW!! and i spent a sunny saturday afternoon hooning around my neighborhood like a teenager thoroughly excited w/my new found performance. this z really moves! ran a few errands and noticed that it started harder and harder after each stop. last errand was to pick up a can of seafoam. came out of the store 15 min. later, poured it in on top of a full tank of gass, and the car wouldn't start (?!?!) it would start briefly and die right away, then did start and spluttered horribly for a few seconds until i coaxed it up to above 2,500 rpm and then seemed to stabilize. next day i took my daughter to an appointment (got it good and hot on the way there) and while waiting i pulled out my ipad (yes, i'm a dork) and researched the hot-start issue. i immediately ordered all new sensors for the thermostat housing, new cold start injector and new plugs/connectors for all of the above. 20 min later i went out to try and start the car and it would NOT fire up. at best, little 2 second runs then died, all the while exhibiting flooding symptoms (stinky exhaust, spluttering, lingering smoke/gas smell wafting out the tailpipe after it died). another 40 min later the appointment was done and when my daughter came out the car was still not starting. at one point (after MUCH cranking and cussing) it fired up and idled (horribly) for a minute or two while producing copious quantities of noxious smog - pedestrians were crossing the street to get away from it - then it died. i had no tools with me (a mistake i will never make again) and had to call for a tow (2 hr. wait). we walked to dinner and came back 1 1/2 hrs later and since it was a chilly night i gave it another try - it started but again idled horribly, belched smoke and wouldn't splutter past 1,500 rpm for anything. got towed home in shame. pulled plugs and they were horribly fouled - a couple of them completely bridged with carbon. they had less than 20 miles on them and were now toast. new parts came, and as suspected all the sensors were covered w/rust & sludge on the wet side and corroded on the outside. the cold start injector was black and sticky - the PO had overfilled with oil, and i fear it was foaming and getting past the stuck pcv to gunk stuff up. replaced all parts, new connectors, cleaned the corroded bullet connectors too, and dropped in a new thermostat for good measure. new plugs and she fired right up (cold, though) and ran smoothly. i checked the AFM and fingering it showed that it actually wanted a little more fuel, so i moved the wheel 4 teeth richer. car runs great now, but still starts hard when hot and i'm terrified of fouling my plugs again. any sage explanations for how a lean condition would foul plugs? sorry for the loooong thread, but wanted to get all the info out at once.

Fantastic! Looking forward to getting my '78 running well. One question: (and yes, it may be a dumb one from an old carbie guy) Will this solve the hot-start problems that plague many of us??

i've been up for the last 2 hrs. reading this thread from the very beginning - LOVE IT! i'm a very old school guy when it comes to engine management, even been known to yank all electronics and retrofit carbs, simply because i have a clue with them and don't with efi... but this sounds great - right on the money. i have a '78 that i've been restoring for the past few months and now that it's on the road and i've replaced all the hoses, wires and sensors, i'm dealing with the "dreaded hot-start issue". so i would be happy as can be to have something like the HellFire to tune past these voodoo demons that make a fool of me in the grocery store parking lot after the car sits for 10 min!! keep up the good work - watching with great interest.

Thanks for all the kind words - I'm almost done fiddling with it (for now)... I have to wait for another couple of paychecks before doing wheels/tires, but I can certainly live with it as is for a while The wire wheels are from the PO and are chromed steel, so starting to rust and a major pain to keep clean. I'm thinking of some slotted mags and raised white letter tires to hit the classic 70's muscle look (re-living my childhood).

Hi all, Been lurking for a couple months while slowly restoring a new-to-me 1978 280z with the help of all the great info on this forum, and of course my new friends at MSA and Black Dragon... Just wanted to introduce the project to you all. History: I'm the 3rd owner - the PO bought it for his wife back in '83 with 30k miles on it and she drove it until she passed away a few years ago. I was lucky enough to find a very original, relatively rust-free example and I've been having a great time working on it. Work Done: The PO was a very nice older gentleman who meant well, but lacked a decent mechanic... The car was believed to be a "reliable daily driver" and ready to go as is, but that was not entirely accurate. It was, however, straight and un-crashed, relatively un-molested and a good starting point for a backyard restoration. There were a leaks in the back hatch glass seal and the passenger side window so the carpet was trashed, car smelled musty and there was quite a bit of surface rust in the passenger side floor pan. The wire harness was a mess, all the hoses were dried out/cracked and it had more vacuum leaks than I can count. I gutted it to the pans, wire wheeled to bare metal as needed, Eastwing Rust Encapsulator paint, Hush-Mat sound deadener, re-wired the primary system, swapping the fusible links (rotted out) with Maxi-Fuse blocks mounted inside the cabin on the passenger side, also relocated all the relays from the engine bay to an aluminum bar mounted inside under the HVAC fan. Replaced all the heater hoses, inside and out, all new radiator hoses, new thermostat, flushed system (several times - lots of rusty water), blanked off EGR valve (broken base, frozen up) new FI lines throughout, new fuel filter back between the tank & pump, new E-brake cable (broken), new halogen headlights + lense covers, re-upholstered the seats (splurged on seat heater kit!) new headliner, tore out and cleaned up all the interior bits, new carpet + floor mats, new door/window seals, new hatch seals, new power antenna (broken), new stereo + speaker boxes in back, tossed the spare tire and lowered the rear deck down to pick up some add'l cargo space, capped the dash, new brighter gauge lights, new console, new rubber shifter inner boots, new leather outer boot, re-finished 240z woodgrain steering wheel, pulled the bumpers, new JDM front 240z bumper on custom brackets, new rear hatch struts (old ones were gutless), new battery tray and leads, re-wired all the injectors, new PCV valve + hose & heat wrap, new plugs, K&N intake, stripped & polished the SST wiper arms, along with a whole lot of little details I can't even remember at this point... I still have to do some body work at the rear to clean up the old bumper holes, and then I'd like to get some 15" rims and wider tires, and maybe lower it an inch to get the stance a little more aggressive. Also thinking about a SST exhaust from the manifold back w/a glasspack resonator and a decent flowing (but not obnoxious) muffler - I want to enjoy a throatier rumble, but without the highway drone. But for now I'm loving the car :classic: It's a blast to drive, and now that it's running well I find my right foot seems to have gotten a bit heavier... At this point it's a pretty solid driver and looks ok too, so I'm just going to enjoy it and take my time with the rest. Geoff

Well, I managed to get the security screws out and took the lock cylinder apart. Yanked out all the lock tumblers except the one at the top that rides on the key shoulder and activates the black plastic eccentric ring/switch. At least this way you need a key and can't just start it with a coin... It works fine now, even though it's pretty loose - reminds me of all the old classic cars I've owned which had worn out ignition switches and you could take out the key while it was running. The important thing is that I now have some confidence that I'll actually be able to start it in the morning! Thanks to all for your help/advice. The sun peeked out for about 4 hrs. this afternoon and I managed to get the z washed and ripped around town for a while - exactly what I got this car for

well... turns out it was the key switch. lock tumblers all worn out and it wasn't letting the key turn all the way to the "Start" position. with a bit of wiggling and getting the key just the right depth into the switch i'm able to get it to work. now, is there a relatively simple way to replace the lock cylinder to fix this?