Chickenman

Link you just posted comes up as one on Hall sensors from 2015 on the MS 3 Extra forum. Can't quite figure out what that has to do with Chris and his MS2??

Yep.. Blackbird_SR71 on MS forums. Haven't posted there much, but have done a lot of lurking. Used to be on VW Vortex Audi 1.8T Engine Forum and Third Gen ( Camaro ) forums a lot. Depends on which car I own at the time... Seems I regularly wake up around 4:30ish to post.....

No, you measure with the DIal Indicator aligned at the top of the Cam lobe. You don't even need the rockers installed. You just have to add 180 degree's to what the Timing card says. Timing card will should always be in Cam degrees... as that is how the Cam is ground and where you would check it on a Cam Doctor. You may need to fabricate a steel fixture ( that is very stiff ) to swing the Dial Indicator over the Cam. Fixture bolts to Valve cover rail. I seen some made out of a long piece of 1" x 3/16" wide flat steel, with a piece of 3" to 4" flat steel welded to it vertically. Vertical piece needs to be super stiff... so I would think 1/4" thickness at least. . You just need something that bolts to the Valve cover rail, but will provide a solid flat mount that raises the mounting point for your Dial indicator well above the Cam lobe. Kinda like the letter " L " Edit: Don't forget about the engine tilt when setting up Dial Indicator. A Magnetic protractor level helps out a lot.

Steve. Don't forget to check the Piston to Valve clearance with lightweight checking springs. You need at least .090" clearance. The Intake valve is usually the one that can cause interference, as it's opening BTDC as the piston is nearing TDC.The .035" off the head reduces the Piston to Valve clearance.

I think the reason why Ron is having the delays, is determining the actual rocker arm ratio's on the L-Series finger followers. As mentioned, finger followers do not have a symmetrical rocker ratio as Domestic pushrod engines such as a SBC. Those are relatively easy to calculate as you are dealing with a round tappet, and although the ratio rises and falls as the cam lobe swipes across the tappet face, it is a symmetrical calculation. And the decades of Cheby, Ford and Chrysler development on Cam grinding have created reliable figures that they can use. But Tappet lift on all pushrod engines is the accepted standard and has been for a long time. No engine builder worth a dime degrees a pushrod engine at the valve. It's all .050" at the Tappet. Our Datsun engines are a different matter as mentioned. The rocker arm ratio is asymmetrical, It starts off low then rises away as the cam lobe sweeps from the valve end of the wipe pad to the pivot end. Add to that the geometry change allowed by the L-seriers design which affect rocker ratio ( SBC etc designs are fixed ) and you can see the difficulty it entails. BTW, it all may be a lot of worry about nothing. Isky has very high standards, as do most Cam grinders these days. Computers, Cam Doctor and CNC machining makes human error less likely than in the 70's and 80's . Put it in at 2 degrees advanced as you plan for the head planned it will probably be just fine.

Yes, you can measure at the valve retainer... it is just subject to more errors as the Isky article mentions. BTW, this is not unique to Isky. Most Cam manufactureres ( Crane, Sig Erickson , Lunati, Comp Cams ) all recommend measuring at Tappet lift. The only reason why some guys use the Valve retainer measurement on Datsuns is because of convenience. It's hard to get the Dial indicator positioned over the Camshaft correctly. And you often have to fabricate a special bracket. But reading directly off the Camshaft is definitely more accurate. I'm heading out to Mission Raceway for some Historic races this weekend. I'll talk to Andy Pearson of Specialty Engineering on this. He is a top engine builder for L-Seriers on the West Coast of North America. His Datsun engines have won numerous SCCA National Runoffs and dozens of SCCA events. It will be interesting to see what he has to say, although I'm pretty sure he always degrees directly off the Cam lobe.

Not repeating already stated facts. In fact I'm trying to correct some misconceptions. As far as N = S and F = L . Internal or external regulator does not matter. That is an industry standard taken from alternator rebuilders. Z Car creations does not screw up the proper operation of the Dash light. It does it correctly by going through the charge lamp for a 1976 2880Z's . I just did the swap from an External Regulated 60 amp 1976 280z alternator to a 1985 300ZX IR 70amp alternator. I specifically used the Z car creations article because it takes it uses #1 lead to connect to #5 ( #1 Lead is Ignition switched source that goes through the Charge Lamp ) That is the CORRECT way... for a 1976 280Z. Which is what OP has. Atlantic Z uses a constant 12 V source for the pairing to #5. I can't remember which one and their site is down. It will probably work as well, but not sure if Charge light will go out on a 1976 280Z. I wasn't taking a chance. And it leaves the constant battery connection to the circuit which leaves a minor draw on the system. Not a lot.. but it can drain the battery. This is all documented if you research enough. BTW... a 1982 280ZX wiring diagram is not really relevant to a 1976 wiring diagram is it. Bottom line is the Z car Creations site for 280Z cars is in fact correct. I just did the swap. Viewed from the engine harness side ( Important little step ) you connect #1 and #5. and #3 and #6. Charge and Brake lamp work perfect. I get a solid 14.3 volts at idle ( 1,000 ) RPM and 14.54 volts at 2,000 rpm. From Z creations site: Wiring With the old VR connector plugged into the engine harness connector, there are six different wires: Connector Position WIRE COLOR New Connection WHERE IT LEADS (Refer to PicC) 1 white/red connect to 5 goes through the charge lamp in the dash to a +12V ignition source at the fuse box 2 white NOT USED battery connection - constant +12V 3 yellow connect to 6 goes to "S" connector on alternator 4 black NOT USED goes to "E" on alternator - ground 5 white/black Connect to 1 goes to "L" connector on alternator 6 white/blue Connect to 3 a true +12V ignition source That is it. The charge light will work correctly and the remaining two wires (white and black) are unconnected and unused. Enjoy.

Steve. Don't forget Lash Caps if you don't already have them. Stock ones won't work. Link that ZH supplied shows you need .175" Lash Pads with that regrind. . Stock is around .120"

Personally, I would check the Cam lobe lift as per the first card. At the Cam lobe. Make sure that the dial indicator is lined up EXACTLY 90 degrees to the crank center-line. Don't forget that the engine is tilted about 6 degrees from vertical and so the Dial indicator must be aligned the same. I'm thinking the numbers will come out correct then. You will likely have to add 180 degrees to the timings on the card. Reason being is that they are a generic card printed for Domestic pushrod engines. The Cam on those is beneath the tappet and pushes upwards. The L-series OHC engine has the Cam located above the follower and pushes down... so that changes the Cheby/Ford/Chrysler cam card readings 180 degrees. If Ron made even a minute miscalculation in the rocker ratio, his numbers will be off. And the Rocker ratio of an L-series engine is not symmetrical like that of a SBC or other engine with round tappets. One other thing. Back in the 70's and 80's all you could buy was OEM Datsun rockers. These days you can get aftermarket rocker arms. But it's already been proven that the ratio can vary from factory. So that throws even more errors into the equation. Edit: In the original Racer Brown article ( Page 99 on How to Modify Datsun Engines . by Bill Fisher and Bob Waar ) he mentions that Datsun produced two different rocker arms. An Early and a Late style. The early ones could be " fudged " to produce a 1.5165 to 1 ratio. The later arms could be " set up " as high as 1.5438 to 1. Some aftermarket rockers these days are as low as 1.48 to 1. And where the lobe is positioned on the wiping pad also alters rocker ratio ( see " fudging " ). All in all there are just too many variable in the Datsun finger follower design to measure at the Valve Retainer. Bottom line. Measure at the Cam lobe for the most accurate job. It's funny that Isky doesn't even follow there own advice... Ed would have never allowed that.

Atlantic Z car site seems to be down. Z car creations has some good info as well, including proper connections on rear of LR160 alternator. BTW... make sure that you do have an LR160 alternator ( IR ) and not an LT160 alternator ( ER); http://www.zcarcreations.com/technical/lr160term.htm On back of Alternator: Top horizontal connection of the Terminal is your " S " or Sense signal. Also called N or Ign on some alternators Should be a Yellow wire on 280Z. Vertical connection is your " L " or Lamp signal. Also called " F " or Field on some alternators.

4:30ish in the morning... and I'm dreaming about damned MS problems instead of scantily clad girls. Thanks Chris!! Steve previously mentioned the need to adjust some parameters in both software and hardware. Noise filtering for VR sensors is one example. You have to turn the Noise filtering on in software ( Tuner Studio ), but you adjust the setting in the hardware ( Via the R56 and R52 pots ). I can see how that gets confusing. And MS doesn't make things any easier by spreading the information in different sources rather than all in one area. Information does seem to be scattered all over the place. Haltech, AEM, Microsquirt, Link ECU's etc, all do the same thing for noise filtering of VR sensors ( just one example ) ... but it's all done in the software. You never have to open the Black Box on any of these units to adjust pots, switch jumpers or solder in different components. That doesn't mean that MS is any less capable than these systems.. but it is definitely less user friendly because of the necessity to keep jumping between software adjustments and hardware adjustments. And it is up front about being a DIY system. On the plus side, you certainly aren't paying the same money for a MS as a Haltech or AEM etc. It's all a trade-off and a learning curve I guess. Let us know how you make out Chris. You'll get there. And you can't get any better than Matt Cramer to help you out. GL

Yes... that's a good link. Just saw it myself now. Could be an issue as the two Pots effectively adjust sensitivity for individual VR's. If they were left unadjusted it could cause a problem. BTW, in the mountains of MS info that ZH linked to, there is a reference a reference that the MS ECU requires a minimum of 20 Millivolts AC to work correctly.

GN: Read the whole article above. This second to last paragraph is a doozy:

Check this article out regarding VR settings on the main board. I'd say those are two pretty important adjustments.... http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm

GN HEI module not required. MS2 3.57 with Extra already has the convertor built in.

Here's a VERY interesting article on VR polarity. Seems BMW may have switched the wires around from normal, and Yellow is negative and Balck is positive. Just came across this, so haven't researched fully.... but very interesting!! VR sensors are very sensitive to polarity. Might be something else to check?? http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1121490-Putting-the-VR-sensor-polarity-information-to-sleep-once-and-for-all

^ Note the wording in the Shneider card at right upper corner. Checking clearance at .050" ( at Tappet ). Not at valve. Also note duration is checked at .050" Camlift .... not Valve lift. Isky has a warning about checking at Valve lift because of measurement errors introduced by clearance ramps and rocker arm ratio variances. A sliding finger follower is particularly, bad because the ratio varies as the cam lobe wipes across the rocker pad. All pushrod engines are checked at Tappet lift and you must use a solid tappet. The Tappet is really just a solid spacer to get the Dial Indicator located on. OHC engines are usually measured ( these days ) directly off of the cam lobe. Back in the 70's they used to measure off the Valve retainer... but that introduced too many errors. I'd call Isky and ask if the specs are checked at the Cam Lobe or Valve stem. Cam Lobe is much more accurate and is the standard these day. Scroll down about halfway. http://www.iskycams.com/cam-degreeing.html CHECKING VALVE SEAT TIMING - CLEARANCE RAMP ERROR Checking the cam at the lifter is much more accurate but can still cause confusion if you try to check the actual valve seat timing, which involves checking on the clearance ramps of the cam lobe. The clearance ramps are the slow lifting portions of the lobe which provide a smooth, transition between the base circle and the cam flank on both the opening and closing sides of the lobe. On the clearance ramps, the first .010" or .015" of lifter movement is usually at the slow rate of .0005' per cam degree. In addition to gradually taking up the valve lash (necessary because of valve expansion and small deflections of the valve gear components), the clearance ramp provides the initial, gentle acceleration of the valve off its seat. An example of these clearance ramps is described in the cam lift curve of Figure 9. As indicated in Figure 9, only the end of the clearance ramp directly adjacent to the cam flank is actually used to open and seat the valve, while the remainder is used to take up the clearance and compensate for small deflections or runout in the valve gear. Since the clearance ramp rate of lift (velocity) is .0005" per cam degree, a slight error on your part of say .001" in checking the valve seat timing at a certain point on these clearance ramps, could account for 2 cam degrees (4 crank degrees) of error in determining the timing point as exemplified in Figure 10. And it is very easy to accumulate .001" error if the dial indicator's stem is not running parallel to the lifter (cosine error) or if you view the dial indicator's calibrations from an angle (parallax error) or if the cam bearings or tappet bosses are worn slightly. Obviously then to properly determine the position of your camshaft in the engine, the cam timing must be checked at a lifter height off the base circle where the velocity (rate of cam rise) is high enough so that small checking height errors of .001" or so will not result in gross degree wheel reading error. ISKENDERIAN .050 LIFTER RISE METHOD Many years ago a standard height was sought after by ISKENDERIAN engineers where all racing camshafts could be timed to give accurate results and in 1958 it was decided and later published in our top tuner's manual, "Valve Timing for Maximum Output" that .050" lifter rise off the base circle would be the accepted standard for our camshafts. This figure was ideal because it was not far enough off the base circle to confuse the engine builder when timing the camshaft, and it was high enough to show effective valve timing (a point where the valve is far enough open to pass an effective air flow). Also, the velocity (rate of cam lift) of most camshafts is approximately .004" per cam degree at .050' lifter rise. Therefore, a .002" error in checking height would only affect the degree wheel reading about 1 crank degree as shown in Figure 11. The ISKENDERIAN .050" lifter rise check has now become a standard in the racing cam industry.

You have a VR sensor correct? I noticed that you have Noise filtering turned " Off " in your Ignition settings. VR sensors and Magnetic sensors usually require Noise Filtering to be turned " ON " and adjusted to get a strong clean signal.. Hall sensors and Optical sensors usually do not require Noise filtering to be turned on.

Delete

I usually pull a critical part ( or two ) that is not obvious and will disable the car. Had to Park the Z at an Airport Lot on a recent vacation. My other car ( Audi ) was down for a while. Airport Security check had a WTF moment when they saw some mysterious electrical devices in my luggage. Fortunately one of them was a car guy and understood why I had these weird relays and things in my luggage. Took some 'splainin' though!!!

Left handed Cobalt or Titanium drill bits are also a God send for removing broken studs and bolts. Spend the extra money and get high quality bitsl. And some cutting fluid... studs are usually very hard.

One thing with Freeze spays is that they work a lot better when a bolt or stud is not already snapped off. With stud or bolt intact, freezing is conducted through body of fastener and shrinks the fastener itself. When a fastener is snapped off, you generally end up shrinking both the fastener and the surrounding area. It works, just not as well. You may be right about dissimilar metals as well, although I've found it works well on Marine applications with Bronze bolts and steel housings. But that's not the same as Steel fasteners in Aluminium... which can be an SOB.

Body shop probably did some welding without disconnecting negative battery cable. That will blow electronics in a hurry. Since the Kenwood radio was likely the only modern electronic device on the car... it was toasted.

There is a modern alternative to heating. Handy for the DIY who may not have torches. It is extreme cooling sprays. Various " Freeze " sprays are available from CRC and Weicon that freeze a bolt down to -30F or lower in seconds. The bolt shrinks, the rust crystals are broken and the Penetrating fluid now has room to " wick " into the threads by capillary action. This stuff works amazing and is used by a lot of Industrial firms. I've used it on frozen turbocharger bolts and flanges on Marine engines ( Salt water corrosion ) and the stuff works extremely well. CRC Freeze Off: https://youtu.be/b0BaowQvL6c Weicon Rust Shock: http://www.weicon.com/pages/ca/products/spray/dissolving-separating/rust-shock-spray.php

Yes, being triggered by the module allows you to keep all the programmable features of the 123 Ignition, while vastly increasing the ignition output. It's also a very handy way of bumping the Ignition output on the stock 280Z Trignition. The 75 and 76 Trignitions are very weak, only drawing about 2 amps maximum. That's not much better than points. The Crane HI-6S solves that problem, giving you a high current spark of nice long duration and the ability to use low resistance coils with no ballast resistors. That really helps an inductive system big time. Honda guys also like the HI-6S as a lot of Honda's use an Ignition module contained inside the coil, but timing is controlled by the Honda ECU. The Crane HI-6S gives them an affordable way to bump up the ignition output while retaining the Factory ignition module and ECU And it's relatively cheap. Over all a nice package for anything other than Forced Induction cars, which may need CDI or COP. .