Matthew Abate

Here's a quick recap of the engine @Takhli is building me: F54 block with 87mm bore L28 Crank with factory 79mm stroke L24 connecting rods (133mm long) P90a head converted to static rocker pivots CompCams Stage 1 camshaft Custom JE pistons designed for 9.80:1 compression and relieved for valve clearance Round-top SU carburetors on a European balance tube Various other optimized parts (flywheel, etc.) Deleted smog system Things I may do in the future (if I don't do them for the initial build): Replace the mechanical fuel pump with an electric one Switch to FI Switch to COP/DIS

I did not know that. Everything I’ve read about this pushes the ‘79 specifically. It’s been maybe 27 years since I rebuilt a distributor so I kinda forgot how they work. Clearly I wasn’t paying attention that day in class. I’ll dig into it. i still want to know what people are asking for one, though. What I’ve found online isn’t great, but I’ve found a bunch of scrap yards quoting $40 to 125.

When I looked at the advance curves spreadsheet that Walter Moore put together I saw that he recommended against the 80-83 distributors because the mechanical and vacuum advances together were potentially dangerous, so I was prioritizing the 79 in my search. However, I have found one or two errors in that data so maybe it’s not the case.

I’m starting to research my options for the ignition on my car and the ‘79 distributor swap is one of the paths I might take. Since total cost is a factor in this, I thought I should see what they run. Do any of you have one in good shape (preferably with minimal to no refurbishing required) to sell? If so please send me a direct message with your asking price. I’m not ready to jump on it yet, but finding one here and getting a good price could push me into a decision.

I’ll admit that I’ve only been looking for about a week and haven’t posted a WTB in the classifieds, but so far I have not been able to find a rebuilt ‘79 at any price. In an effort to get back on topic and make this thread helpful, here are some questions to the guys who lost the distributor: Why did you do it (frustration, experimenting, parts availability, etc.)? If you were starting from nothing and could choose anything, what would you do and why? Was a DIS “worth the cost” to you (someone dependent on your previous answers, I guess)? Are there any big flags we should be aware of before choosing the DIS path (outside of the technical details of doing it correctly)? Did anyone revert to a distributor? Why?

@siteunseen, This thread? Back to my question above: given the options I listed and the additions from @Zed Head, are there any general recommendations or categorical options? The ‘79 distributor seems very hard to find, putting it in the same bucket as any S30 distributor. The HEI options seem interesting, but I wonder if it wouldn’t be nearly as much work/money/time to get it going as the COP/DIS options. Obviously the specific parts chosen can drive up costs, but I’d love to hear from someone who has tried a few or several options. I know there is no “best.” Just looking for sign posts to point the way.

Oh, cool. I’ll search for it. @Zed Head, thanks for filling in the gaps!

Question for @z32 fairlady: why are you considering this modification? The reason I ask is that I am also considering it, and your answer may help me clarify my own situation. I’d like to just do this once. Right now I have an engine being built with no ignition system at all, so anything I get will be new parts. I’m trying to make the right (for my situation) decision the first time. The new engine is an F54 block with P90A head converted to mechanical (non-hydraulic) rocket pivots, running a stage 1 cam and rebuilt SUs. I may convert to DCOE FI (Jenvey) or the like later. For posterity, these are the options I’ve identified so far: A 240z distributor (hard to find, hard to get parts, solid performance) A 240z distributor + Pertronix (easier to maintain, no real performance improvements) A ‘79 280zx distributor (requires a particular base, strait forward if you have the parts) A later ZX distributor (no balast resister, hotter/better spark, tach won’t work, needs a recurve, vacuum advance is “wrong”) Mallory Unilite (no longer manufactured, hard to find, no vac advance) GM or equivalent HEI distributor (available anywhere, requires machining/fabrication/module/etc.) 123 distributor (great performance, poor quality control, several failures documented in this forum, tunable on the fly, set and forget) COP + DIS (great performance particularly at high RPM, damned expensive, requires a pro to tune, clean look, as far from “period correct” as you can get) I’ll put this question to the group: if the points distributor is on one end of the spectrum and the DIS is on the other end, how does one find the sweet spot for their car?

Ah damn! I wish I had seen that before I did the wheels. I didn’t know that it was supposed to be non-metallic. They would have looked better like that. Okay, so Dupli-Color CBFM0360 it is. Thanks for the help guys!

Okay, so now that the rack is done, I have two projects in flight while I wait for the car to come home. One is the rear exterior panels. I am testing various paint strippers on one piece right now and intend to paint that whole set up with rattle can paint. I think I remember someone saying that Duplicolor HWP102 Graphite is the right color. That’s what I used on my wheels, but I need to do some research to make sure. The other project is a ground up, from scratch wiring setup. That one is going to take a minute. Here is my current list of things I’m thinking of doing to car that would need to be considered for this: Air conditioning Electric fuel pump 123 distributor or DIS Alternator upgrade Gear-reduction starter Lithium battery Fuse-box upgrade Swap cigarette lighter for 12v plug Tachometer or full gauge set upgrade (if necessary) Radio / Antenna delete Driving / rally / fog lights Turn signal circuit mod Headlight upgrade LED lights throughout 3rd brake light USB plugs to charge phones Power for a Bluetooth speaker Electric radiator fans Seat warmers Sat Nav power Just some thoughts for now. Gotta get on the research. Any suggestions, tips, or word of caution are appreciated.

Done. Everything specs out to the FSM. Just need to attach and lubricate the outer tie rod ends. ...

Bought another Moog OTRE and finally got the right part, so I’m back in business on the rack. Should be done by Monday. Hoping to have a progress report on the body by Thanksgiving. I passed on your comments regarding the door, so we will see if he’s receptive to those ideas.

My body shop is telling me that it only happens on the driver side. They want to cut bottom of the door and reshape things so that it mates all the way around. I have asked for pictures.

Question: is there a difference between 250z doors and 280z doors? The bottom of one of my doors does not meet the rocker correctly. It sticks out about a quarter inch. We checked the shape of the car and it’s not that. I’m asking the shop to measure the doors to compare them. the only things I could think of are the holes are drilled wrong or one of them is off a 280 and 280 doors are different.

Made progress today... They forgot the sway-bar reinforcements, so they started that. Not pleased about the sequencing of this but they assured me it will be great in the end. ? I put the rear suspension in: I put the front suspension in: And it looks like a car again! No more spaceship z. Theres still a pile to do, including fixing some things they already sprayed, but it’s coming along. Panels and doors should be getting gapped shortly.

In other news, I went with undercoating on the floor, mostly to black it out when viewed from the side.

Question: is this an AC drain tube hole? The body shop and I are debating what to do about it. I’m thinking cut it to be nice for a rubber grommet but keep it since I plan to put a Restomod Air system in. Edit: I just got off the phone with Restomod Air. They recommended cutting it to fit a 5/8” rubber grommet so the 1/2” drain tube from their Vapor II system can run through there.

Things are happening today!

Thanks guys. CO, I’m adding that to the glossary. I think what was meant in the thread I referred to is that crank sensors give you accuracy (flywheel versions specifically) whereas the cam helps you understand which valve position for spark. “Accuracy”

Have you finished the fuel return line charge yet? I’m curious to see how that turned out, as I am considering several of the same mods you’re doing. I have seen people use 280z gas tanks to solve for this, but I’m thinking the vapor tank suggestion made earlier is a great one. Incidentally, I know the vapor smell getting into your house was a consideration for all of this. I’m thinking of using a II Much vapor canister in place of the OEM one in my ‘73. Something like that may help with options for getting that return to work.

Awesome! That’s what I like to hear. I don’t suppose you can put any numbers on it. Any chance you have a link to dyno charts for comparison? Regarding cam sensor, I had read somewhere (Duffy’s thread?) that the crank sensor doesn’t tell you which of the strokes you are on, so pairing the two gives you that plus accuracy. I’m paraphrasing big time here.

Thanks @Zed Head I’ll get those edits in. If everyone else could make recommendations on components or provide links to how-tos or instructions I would appreciate it. I’m starting to dig into Hybridz right now and plan to transpose what I find into the above post.

I am also in the beginning stages of doing this research and was planning to do some sort of write up on it. I just reached out to Wheee! and have been digging through Duffy’s thread to get started. I think this thread is as good a place to compile notes as any. This is what I have gathered, plus contributions by @Zed Head, @duffymahoney, @wheee!, and @madkaw (please suggest edits as appropriate): Benefits Better Performance? - Yes, in the form of hotter spark, less chance of misfire, more efficient combustion, and better emissions Better power? - Maybe. Full control of timing in any load situation is a far and above the compromise of a dizzy - however it might be recurved. Lower cost? - Not initially, but parts are easier to find that the original setup once a system is in place. Tunable? - Yes. Programmable ignition curves allow you to optimize for power and efficiency. Required Components Coils (6) Spark Plugs (6) Coil Bracket Camshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor Crankshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor Ignition Control Unit / Module Battery Wiring Harness Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Tachometer Signal Converter Considerations Cost - Is the cost of the system worth the benefits for your car vs OEM parts or other options? Availability - Can you find replacement components to get your build finished and keep it working? Difficulty - Will you need to have help getting it installed, tuned, and keep it working? Appearance - Which of each component is right for your build style? Heat - How will heat be managed to ensure proper function and longevity? Positioning - How will you route the wiring through firewall and what mounting points will work for each component? Accessories - Will you be running AC, the headlight relay harness, non-original alternator, other hard-wired electronics, etc.? Glossary Smart Coils (from AEM Performance Electronics) “Smart” Inductive Coils are designed for use on applications that do not have an external igniter. Wasted Spark (from Wikipedia) In a wasted spark system, the spark plugs fire in pairs, with one plug in a cylinder on its compression stroke and the other plug in a cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The extra spark during the exhaust stroke has no effect and is thus "wasted". This design halves the number of components necessary in a typical ignition system, while the extra spark, against much reduced dielectric resistance, barely impacts the lifespan of modern ignition components. In a typical engine, it requires only about 2–3 kV to fire the cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The remaining coil energy is available to fire the spark plug in the cylinder on its compression stroke (typically about 8 to 12 kV). “If you're running a wasted spark system, you don't need cam sensor. Two pistons will be approaching TDC at the same time. Of the pair, one of the rising pistons is approaching TDC on it's compression stroke, and the other one is approaching TDC on it's exhaust stroke. A cam sensor would allow you to differentiate between those two, but if you're running a wasted spark system, you don't care... Just spark both of them at the same time. If you had a cam sensor, you could spark just the cylinder on it's compression stroke alone without "wasting" a spark on the other cylinder.” - Captain Obvious COMPONENTS: COILS ACDelco D585 Nissan R35 COMPONENTS: COIL BRACKETS Blake Machine Co. http://blakemachine.com/performance_parts_by_blake_machine/datsun_coil_on_plug_brackets_6__4_cylinder List of Options for Crank and Cam Position Sensors @ Hybrids -https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/126710-list-of-options-for-crank-and-cam-position-sensors/ COMPONENTS: CAMSHAFT ANGLE SENSOR Jeep 4.0 CAS in stock distributor location https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/125904-jeep-cam-angle-sensor-for-l-series/ 1998 Nissan Quest (PN: 22100-P8500) https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/58568-duffys-171-series-1-240z-build/?page=19&tab=comments#comment-582356 COMPONENTS: CRANKSHAFT ANGLE SENSOR 1982-83 280ZXT distributor with DIYautotune wheel XXX Austin Hoke Bolt-in-Kit http://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/l-series-crank-angle-sensor https://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/store/l-series-crank-angle-sensor-kit BJH Dynamics / Robello Racing XXX Damper-mounted universal or OEM trigger wheel XXX Flywheel Hall Sensor XXX Top End Performance Trigger Wheel fab Service XXX COMPONENTS: ECU Crane: Electromotive: Haltech: https://www.haltech.com/ MSD: Megajolt: https://www.autosportlabs.com/the-new-megajolte-mk2-is-here/ https://www.mgexp.com/article/mgb-edis-installation.html https://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p72.html

Precisely, which is why I’m eyeballing the harada. one thing I’m wondering about these Mangoletsis is why all the extra casting? Is that a balance tube going between the inlets or just reinforcement. Here is the manufacturer’s site: http://www.mangoletsimanifolds.com/manifolds/datsun.html There sure is some big talk in the brochure!

I just stumbled upon a site offering Mangoletsi triple side-draft manifolds. I had never hear of them before. This thread Lists all of the ones I had ever seen mentioned and then some, and they don’t show up here either. There are only two mentions of Mangoletsi on this site, and nothing very informative. Any opinions? —- and while I have your attention, is there anything wrong with the Harada manifolds? They seem readily available and relatively low price.