Matthew Abate

So it turns out the guy thought I wanted them to do the whole project even though I had specified just stripping, painting, and metal work. We'll see what he says. As far as not giving estimates goes, anyone who can't give me an idea of the possible range is not doing business well, regardless of what the industry standard is. This is different from an estimate, and contracts should be written in such a way so as to make sure the job doesn't get into a jam, but refusing to scope the project outright is BS. And as far as AZ is concerned, I had a 1965 Corvair stripped, dipped, epoxy coated, and painted, plus under coat for $8,000 in 2000. Inflation hasn't climbed 8 times, so it's either a premium the Barrett Jackson crowd is pulling or some other crazy BS. /M

I ended up impulse buying a Hobart Handler 140 from northern tool because I had a couple coupons that didn't cancel each other out, plus free shipping, so not a bad deal even if I maybe should have gone up a notch, or maybe a different brand if I hadn't had the deal. /M

Update: This project isn't dead, It's just not moving. I spent the last few months doing research and getting my garage in order for snow. so there isn't a whole lot of room or time to do anything to the Z directly. But I have been working on my Z knowledge. Two developments: I bout new floor panels from Zed. I learned how to weld. Now, to be sure, I suck at welding. I need some serious practice and don't feel confident that I could do the floors correctly at the moment. But I will keep practicing as I look for a shop to paint my car. Maybe I'll get good enough before I find one and end up doing it myself. Maybe I'll end up finding one and just having them do it. Either way all the supplies and materials are in hand so my knowledge is the only thing holding it up. Finding a shop in northern New Jersey is proving pretty tough, though. They seem to want about 8 times what it would cost me in Arizona, where I lived the last time I did this. I'm also looking into a new engine. I don't need one, but I am inclined to go 2800cc and sell my non-original-to-the-car '73 engine, keeping the '72 SUs and whatever else can be repurposed. Right now I'm leaning F54/P79, but I would love to hear that an E88 the better choice, because I have one of those right now. Anyway… ONWARD!

By the way, this is the description of the car that I sent to these shops:

So on Friday I sent emails to about 7 car restorers and body shops in northeast New Jersey to get informations so I can choose a shop. These places ranged from auto body shops that do new cars and collision repair to antique car restorers that specialize in porsches and American midcentury stuff. So far everyone is refusing to give me an estimate, even ballpark, which I kind of understand but kind of don't I work in a field that is prone to scope creep and schedule slips due to unforeseen issues (digital experience design), so I get that people don't want to get locked into estimates that are wilding out of line, but I also know that once you've done similar projects more than twice you can get fairly close, given the condition that the budget is renegotiated after things pop up. Long story short, the first response I got back quantified the labor for stripping, welding in new floors and filling belt line trim holes, dipping, epoxy priming, 3-stage painting, and undercoating at 950 hours or more at $85 / hour. This seems insane to me. Can anyone give me an idea of what this kind of bodywork should take, labor wise? Or conversely, can someone talk me into not doing all of this stuff? I understand that dipping could probably be the first thing cut from my list, but I have seen a lot of projects that get completely stripped and quality paint done, and I can't imagine that that many people are over investing in their Zs.

Did this today: /M

Try a wet on wet application. If the chemical compositions of the two paints are compatible they should fuse without causing any blistering or crinkling. Then it's just a question of how well the base layer sticks. /M

Back on the topic of transmissions and gear ratios, here's some info I've dug up that could use vetting... From this thread on HybridZ (http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/106071-is-the-280zx-na-tranny-the-same-as-the-280z-5-speed-tranny/): And various ratio data for FS5W71B transmissions from all over:1977-1979 280Z (3.321, 2.077, 1.308, 1.000, 0.864) 1980 280ZX (3.062, 1.858, 1.308, 1.000, 0.773) 1981-1983 280ZX (3.062, 1.858, 1.308, 1.000, 0.745) 1977-1978 620 (3.321, 2.077, 1.308, 1.000, 0.864) 1979 620 (3.592, 2.246, 1.415, 1.000, 0.882) 1977-1980 720 (can't find ratios) 1980 720 2WD (3.592, 2.246, 1.415, 1.000, 0.882) 1981+ 720 (can't find ratios) 1977-1979 810/Maxima (3.321, 2.077, 1.308, 1.000, 0.864) 1980-1981 810/Maxima (3.321, 2.077, 1.308, 1.000, 0.833) If anyone can help fill in the blanks, verify or counter the HybridZ statements, or advise, it would be much appreciated. Here are the 240 4-speed ratios for reference: 3.592, 2.246, 1.415, 1.000 /M

This the one I was talking about earlier: http://jdm-car-parts.com/products/datsun-competition-steering-wheel-240z-260z-280z-510 There is a picture of it on top of the stock wheel for comparison. /M

Have people found that the smaller diameter wheel paired with wider rims (8") makes the steering too heavy? I would expect the reduced leverage plus the larger contact patch to create a noticeable difference. Something to consider in your choice, maybe. /M

I'm curious if the steering feels much heavier with the 8" wheels over the 7" ones you used to have. /M

There's a repro of the Datsun performance wheel floating around on the internet that looks nice. Basically a stock wheel but smaller in diameter with a fatter, leather grip. /M

Well, I think I might be able to get it on the road by this time next year then. I had a guy from Kanter Auto Restoration come by today and check it out. His welding quote was pretty high, but he was talking about cutting a bunch of pieces to fit instead of using new floors. If I get new floors the price comes down, but he prefers to do small patches if possible because he said he can make it look original without compromising the structure and geometry of the car. He also expects me to strip it and do the undercoat myself. For no more than $6,000 he will weld it, etch prime and then do a wet on wet epoxy coat, and paint the outside, door jambs, and engine bay. The inside is not included and would just get a coat of "plastic" over the repairs. This isn't really what I was intending to do, but it would get the project moving. I had planned to completely strip it, paint the entire car with fresh paint, have it under coated, all with the suspension off. Lots to think about...

Joeybricks, Have you thought about doing it yourself? I was just reading the thread about POR15 and think I might try it. /M

Sure, but what's the deal with these specific shocks? I've seen two models of Koni shocks discussed on this forum, one for racing only and one for street use that is super harsh, but neither of those are the one on this site. Also, this is the only place that has this particular model. /M

Okay, most of what I've been doing this week has been on the house work, so the Z work has been limited to research. Originally I had intended to figure out what I wanted the finished car to have on it and just do the installation of all of that stuff once, but the more I look into it the more I realize that the things I had originally intended to do might make the car no fun on the street, and I really don't intend to ever take it on a track day. I might do some autocross stuff at best. So I am bailing on the majority of the mods until the car is on the road. This should help my budget a bit in the short term, but will probably result in wasting money on fixing up parts that eventually come off in the long term. Whatever. Right now I think I am going to continue to body / paint work (obviously) and keep the original engine and suspension until I find out how I feel about them. I am limiting the immediate mods list to the 5-speed and the Subaru differential (unless I find something else that is better or more cost effective). This should give me a pretty satisfying car. Who knows. Maybe I'll be happy with just that stuff.

Thanks! /M

I was looking around for info on Koni shocks and found that Zcar Depot has front and rear sets for $389.00 a pair. Then I started digging around in here to find out what they feel like on the street and noticed that no one has mentioned this particular model number. I can't find it anywhere on the internet except for this site: https://zcardepot.com/suspension/shocks/koni-shocks-strut-adjustable-front-new-240z-260z.html?search=Koni Do they have a typo in the model number? Is this a new item? Am I missing something fundamental about how to shop for these? /M

Wait, so the only difference between the '72 and '73 mounting brackets is the cylender welded to the front? I was going to wait until much later to research this, but since you guys are talking about it now, I'll interject. The guy who sold me my car cut those cylinders off in order to fit a towing bar to the car (and bent them out of shape in the process of dragging it 1,000 miles to my house). Can I theoretically just bolt a '72 bumper on and call it done? /M

Hmm. Interesting. I'll look into it and see how it is compared to the Citristrip, which I can buy locally at Home Depot when I go get the lumber I need to block the ceiling under my kitchen that my idiot contractor FORGOT to do and has made making nag dinner like getting on a trampoline. Then I get to retile the floor. Fun times with home ownership. In other news, I am employed again, so I can get back on the car floors project once the savings has been refilled from three months of no deposits. I have a few options lined up now. It's all going to depend on the total cost and the order things need to happen. Quite a few people have offered to do the welding jobs, so I just have to pick one and plan out the schedule. /M

I need a source in NJ as well. Preferably north eastern in the Newark area. Did a search and there seems to be about 20 places that do that and radiators. /M

I took a break from the interior and pulled some more exterior parts. Nothing major. Yesterday was the 5YO's birthday so not a lot of free time lately. The rear bumper was sort of a bitch to get off. Looks like it had been tapped or backed into something, because the bracket was bent on the left and the mount point on the left fender is a bit dimpled and the bracket inside the bumper is bent up where it was pushed forward a touch. Nothing I can't bang back into shape in two seconds, but it really drives home how terrible the design for these bumpers is for repairing the car after a collision. Also pulled the sheet metal that protects the fuel lines behind the right rear tire, which brings up two questions I haven't had a chance to research: 1) is there supposed to be one of these on the left side? I didn't see any holes for one so I assume not. And 2) are these little holes in the fender arch supposed to be there or did some dirtbag put aftermarket mudflaps on my baby? I assume the latter. /M

Pro tip for people thinking about the Subaru diff swap: while the WRX STI didn't always come with one, it looks like the Subaru Forester and maybe the Outback might have used an R180, so that could open up the options. I need to verify this, but there's one on eBay out of a Forester right now. I believe the ratio was 4.44, though. /M Edit: the Subaru r180 seems to be limited to turbos and 6-speeds, so that might help with searches.

Hmmmm, sounds like having it stripped for me might be the way to go. My garage sits underneath my house and I don't want to fill my kids' rooms with fumes. Either that or find a spectacular blasting guy. Thanks for the tips! /M

You can get red LED lights meant to go on the back plate or any number of other places on a motorcycle. If there are any places to mount them that you could run a wire this might be effective, especially if you can swivel them around to point directly into the following car. I haven't gotten to that part of my restoration yet, so I can't think of where would work best. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk