Av8ferg

Was working on the Pertronix Digitsl HP install yesterday without luck. I wired it up exactly as stated in the manual, and I couldn’tt get the car to start. Spent 45 mins on phone with tech rep and no luck. The module has an led that flashes error codes and mine came up as possibly a bad unit. Bought it on Amazon (because of ease of return), box appeared to have been opened and instructions were missing. I think it may have been used before and returned. So I pulled it out and sent it back today, You get one shot with me on products. I won’t come back if I get a bad one. So, I’m back to the drawing board. All this research on ignition units is creating lots of questions. It seems the primary cause of many of these ignition unit failures is one of two things. Heat and/or using the improper coil, burning it up. The E12-80 module is in a terrible location right under the rad hose on the distributor. This is a hostile location. What if you moved it to where the coil is located and just extended the wires from the distributor? This is what is essentially done on a GM HEI module mod. I went ahead and bought an Pertronix HEI to test it out. Again on Amazon so I can send it back, it’s a $50 version. I also bought a heat sink to mount it on. I know this discussion has been done before on here and I’ve been looking at those posts. It seems the GM HEI needs a matching coil to keep it from burning up. I saw mentions of a .5 ohm coil. I have a 1.0, .6 and a 1.5 ohm coils here. (Primary resistance) which is more likely to burn up the module to coil a low resistance coil or a higher one? I really don’t understand the relationship with coil resistance and what that really means and how that effects the module. The HEI seems to get s bad rap because I think guys have the wrong coil and are just cooking them and/or buying crappy cheap ones, I was at my local NAPA , the manager was chatting me up and we are talking ignition units and he was swearing up and down how great the GM HEI is. He was confident I’d be happy. So. I was thinking I could move the Nissan module mount it on the heat sink I bought and also test the HEI there Question is can I safely use the 1.5 ohm coil for both. Also what do you do about the hole left behind in the distributor where the module wires exit? I thought o screw a plate where the old one mounted and have the wires pass through a small hole and put a rubber grommet there,

Great posts guys. I’ve already removed my old ignition unit when I swapped to the ZX distributor and e12-80 ignition. I’ve also removed the ballast resistor. Steve, that’s an interesting approach using the oil ignition wires, might be worth a look. ZedHead the problem with my mounting in the foot well is that it will be hard to adjust those settings. I don’t think I’ll ever adjust these once it’s set up. I’ll se the rev limiter to 6,000 rpm and won’t need the other limiters. I could mount in the engine compartment and it would probably be fine and I’ll go that route if mounting in the cabin is too hard.

I called the and spoke to a Pertronix Rep today on the phone to ask questions about their Digital HP Ignition unit. The rep was super nice , very knowledgeable and said the ignition unit should work just fine on the Z. I was worried about the tachometer having indication problems but he assured me there a 2 different wires to use based on what type of signal the tach gets. Worst case he said call us and we’ll walk you through it and find a solution if in the rare circumstance it doesn’t work. I was impressed with the guy’s knowledgeable and amazed I could call a company and within 2 mins be on the phone with a tech rep. He also said the product was released in 2016 and they spent 18 months engineering this unit after asking what customers wanted. He verified is was built in the USA. I don’t expect all the components to be made in the USA. When I was 21 I worked for Bose, the speaker manufacturer. I worked at the factory in Framingham, MA. Almost all the electrical sub-components were from Asia but we made the speakers right there in MA. That’s not unusual in the electronics industry. So I have one of their boxes on the way as well as a new .32 ohm coil. He said it was designed for that coil in mind and that the tach signal won’t come from the coil anymore but the ignition unit itself so i should not have any tach issues. I plan to put it in the passenger footwell where the stock Ignition Unit went. Safer to be in the cabin vs the engine. I’ll report to you all my findings, detail the install and all the pros and or cons I run into.

There is some good Fast EFI videos from 280z installs.

ZedHead, I noticed that wiring colors were the same too. I think it was done so the swap from MSD is plug and play.

I agree, I want to go to carbs too at some point. I may start rebuilding my other L28 (one that came out of my car) and go the SU carb route there. Would probably forgo the old points approach just because the newer systems are better and more reliable. I have a set of SU carbs that I sent out to a forum member to do some refurbishing. I’d honestly rather have carbs on this car now. EFI was the fastest route to getting it driving, I’d be interested in doing this mod over this winter. He’s a busy guy so not sure if those carbs will be ready that soon, but definitely want to go with the carbs 100%. I may be opening a can of worms but I don’t think the whole world would have changed to electronic ignition systems to if it were a worse technology. Points require more care and maintenance. With my ZX distributor I don’t think I can go back to he 77 ignition? I’d need another distributor and I think the general consensus is the ZX distributor and ignition system is an upgrade to my stook 77. The faster and cheapest way forward is just getting a solid module that isn’t 35+ years old. Hopefully the Pertronix Digital HP is the answer and it will also work with my future carb set up.

Great responses gents, thanks, ZedHead and Captain Obvious regarding GM HEI. Yes, I agree the placement of the HEI under the distributor cap was a bad location causing premature heat failures. Heating and cooling of electrical components over time isn’t good nor the constant vibration. I know people,have successfully put these in. There are so many manufacturers of these. Unfortunately, you never know what you’re getting anymore. So many companies rush off to China to save money and end up with inferior products. The problem is you can never tell what you are getting. Even the Delphi ones are probably made there in the same couple factories. Go on Amazon and look at the review for these GM HEI modules….they are not good. ZedHead, I did some research and you’re correct. MSD was bought out and now has moved its production from El Paso to China. Many unhappy customers with the later Chinese models. Same reasons stated above. It’s hit or miss it appears. I can go on a long rant about what Chinese production has done to America. The bottom line overseas production has benefited companies balance sheet while killing US jobs and undermining our national security. I resist to say more. So after some research I’m considering another option. Pertronix has a product called the Digital HP module. Saw only one short thread on here from 2017. Again, I’m not trying to get power increase. I’m looking for reliability. ZedHead commented on the 2017 thread but the price had just hit the market and there was little to no feedback from car owners. After 5 more years the reviews are good. This product is made in the US, had good reviews and wires up exactly like the MSD at almost 1/2 the MSD cost. Amazon sells it and had free returns. I might test it and report back my findings. 95% 5 star reviews on both Amazon, Jegs and Summit. Haven’t read a bad review yet online, Right now I can’t confidently drive the car any distance from my house and while it’s running fine now if I drove 25 miles from home and I had another failure again i won’t be happy and it would be a major inconvenience . If the car is not reliable then it defeats the purpose of what I’ve done to this point. I’m willing to be the 280z Guinea Pig. If it’s not good I’ll return it.

Okay, squirrel moment here. I got a couple things I’m working on. One is I pulled my thermostat to confirm the temp rating and it was in fact 180 deg. I did this because I felt the car is running on the warm side. Wanted to make sure it wasn’t a 190 deg unit. I ordered a new “high flow” thermostat made by motorad. The Nissan ones are no longer available. I also order a Gates premium one. Mine I pulled from the car is a Stant. I’ll post pics of the differences once they arrive from Rock Auto. The Stant outlet orifice seems too small. And why it is offset from center? The stock Nissan one doesn’t appear offset lie that when I looked at stock pictures. I think my problem might be the lack of a lower radiator fan shroud. Second thing on my mind is after my flameout due to an ignition failure I’ve lost confidence in the car. That e12-82 module is in a location that is so susceptible to heat that I want to go with a different option. I read a lot about the GM HEI but it seems like a poorer option. These GM modules have high failure rates and many complain about issues above 5000 rpm. I need reliability not headache and not doing module swap outs on the side of a highway. So I’ve been now considering a MSD 6AL ignition unit. I haven’t read a bad review from someone who is using one. See a lot of install errors but once worked out they run smooth, better idle, cleaner acceleration. Im not expecting a increase in power, just a reliable option to what I have. A capacitive discharge ignition like the MSD with my 280ZX distributor is supposedly a good way to go. I’d love to hear anyone’s thoughts and options, on these topics.

I’ve never heard of that HR1 oil. I’ve been using the Valvoline VR1 oil. So I opened the owners manual for my car to see what it said about oil. It was pretty generic unlike what new cars recommend. I took a picture of the section. It basically says that the weight is dependent on the a temperature you plan to operate the car in as your leading factor with the caveat of not to use 5W-20 for sustained high speed driving. Reading this chart, I should probably use a higher weight oil. The chart is a bit cryptic as it shows 10W-30 and 10W-40 in the 0-60deg F range and also list those oils in the 20-100def F range? I have 5 more quarts of 10W-30 in my garage and will use that and then swap over to a heavier oil. Maybe 10W-40 next purchase. Check it out.

I’ve never heard of that HR1 oil. I’ve been using the Valvoline VR1 oil. So I opened the owners manual for my car to see what it said about oil. It was pretty generic unlike what new cars recommend. I took a picture of the section. It basically says that the weight is dependent on the a temperature you plan to operate the car in as your leading factor with the caveat of not to use 5W-20 for sustained high speed driving. Reading this chart, I should probably use a higher weight oil. The chart is a bit cryptic as it shows 10W-30 and 10W-40 in the 0-60deg F range and also list those oils in the 20-100def F range? I have 5 more quarts of 10W-30 in my garage and will use that and then swap over to a heavier oil. Maybe 10W-40 next purchase. Check it out.

So what is the consensus on oil weight for these engines. I don’t disagree with you on an older (as in lots of miles) engine. My engine was a complete rebuild, as in all new rings, bearings, seals etc. I agree 10W-30 seems thin but I bought this weight because I read somewhere back when doing my rebuild that this was the weight to use. I live in a temperate climate. It’s been in the 80’s the past few weeks, we get some mid 90’s now and then and the winters are very mild too. We might get 10 days with temps below where the clear liquid turn to a solid. High 40’s to high 50’s in the dead of winter. We had a 24deg day last year and people freaked out and were chanting to the pagan gods asking for forgiveness. Good question to throw out to the community. What oil are you all using …..let’s hear it and why.

Good comments; so the injectors were sent off to be reconditioned and they were cleaned, spray volume tested. They looked brand new when I got them back. Cost me $130 for all 6. The CSV is a good idea. It is not new and I haven’t tested it. Maybe I could disconnect it and see. Car doesn’t seem to run rich, at least no more rich then these cars tend to run on this old injection technology. I think that the fact the ECU fires all injectors every time is going to set the car up to be running rich. I also want to make sure the CSV isn’t staying on longer that required and might just test the pig tail after start to ensure it’s no longer getting power after the key is released. Im no expert, I think gasoline flash point is around -45F and I’d imagine mixed in oil it would be much higher. I never small gasoline in my garage either. I saved a 8 ounce sample of the oil and on next oil change I will send both off for a lab analysis. My neighbor does this on every oil change on his cars. He has a Porsche GT3 RS but also does it on his Subaru Outback. 🤨

Turn signals broken again. Will check fuse and see what’s happening. Frustrating! I finally got around to doing the first oil change. The engine has about 300 miles on it. I’m glad I changed it now because I thought about going to 500 miles but after looking at the oil it should have been done sooner. The oil looked very thin first off, it is 10w-30 VR1 oil but I think all the start attempts early on trying to get it running has introduced a lot of fuel into the oil. The oil has a fairly strong gasoline smell, way more that usual. The oil was darker than I expected, on a engine that was immaculately clean inside.

Reading this thread because after getting my turn signals to work they’re once again not working. Hazards are good but no turn signals. Gonna check the fuse I guess. So as far as hand signals, I’ve been using them too. The last time I’ve was given the bird was in Philly. That’s SOP up there, sorry Bruce [emoji1787]. So I’m not worried about it. Where I live people never toss that out.

Thanks Bruce for the pics, I’ll take a look and see.

I know this is going to sound crazy but I don’t mind the buzzer. I actually bought a replacement buzzer when rebuilding the dash Good reminder you left the key in the car. I looked tat the wiring diagram and it doesn’t show those two red w/ blue strip wires for the key anywhere. I know it’s for the buzzer because it’s the only connection left on the ignition assembly and the buzzer sounds when the key is in.

I have an ignition switch/cylinder lock question. I bought a whole new in ignition assembly because mine is worn so bad the key practically falls out and it’s finicky. Hard to turn, hard to know what position the key is in, key goes in both ways etc.. The new one arrived and reading the forum is appears I have to cut a notch in two of the mounting screws to remove them. Secondly my old assembly has two wires coming out of a small black plastic piece right near the key. This is separate from the actually switch. I’m assuming this is what activates the buzzer to let you know the key is inserted. The new assembly just has a plastic piece there, no place to attach wires. Is this something I need to remove and then attach my old wires too? I didn’t want to pry that plastic piece off and break something. Anyone else down this job recently?

Cliff, that’s crazy. You need to catch that monster and get it out of your garage!

Found the steering wheel in a junkyard on a 240z. I acquired 2 on them that way and bought one for $165. This one in the pics was the worst condition one of the batch. It was really bad. I decided to attempt a refurbishment of this one as a test and it came out great so I didn’t bother with the other one. I donated the one I bought to a friend that has helped me out on this build. Will probably sell the last one I have. Here is what it looked like when I got it.

Wrapping up the interior. I’m pretty happy with the outcome. It’s not perfect but it has come a long way. I wish I had great pics of the interior to show the before and after. The bottom line my car had no interior and no seats when I bought it. Everything is new or something I either bought or salvaged. The only interior pieces that I had were the plastic panels that go around the rear quarter windows. The headliner was also in good shape and required no work. There was no vinyl on the shock towers or wheel wells. I salvaged mine off a junked Z in a salvage yard. You can see in the before pics the interior was just bare metal. Still haven’t figured on the center console arm rest mechanism. I have all the parts (springs and wires ) just haven’t figured out how is works yet. I also need new sun visors, or to have mine refurbished.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I will get a can of that stuff for the future. so I had a couple back up E12 modules so I just swapped one out. Cleaned the connections with contact cleaner and triple checked the connections. I also tested the temp sensors resistance to make sure it was in tolerance. 300 ohms at the sensor and 307 at the plug to the ECU when engine was hot. Thanks S30driver for that advice. Car is running now, let it heat up and took it for a spin. Stayed less than 1/2 mile from gloss at all times and put my kids electric skate board in the back incase I needed to get back. So far so, it’s shaken my confidence so it will be awhile before I hit the real roads. I like the idea of the GM HEI as a back up. Would be nice to mount that near the coil and have the wire coiled up and ready to go. ZedHead, what’s requited for that mod where I currently sit?

Looking for some advice, Been working on the Z this week with success. Hazards, Radio installed, lights all working so I was pretty happy until yesterday. I hadn’t driven the car in a couple weeks as I was working on fixing the above items and general interior work. I decide to take to car for a short drive. Total distance was about 3-4 miles but never far from home. The car was driving great, the best I’ve noticed since I had got the timing perfect and the idle mixture set right, I got a timing light with RPM and advance capability. Did this over a month ago but haven’t really driven it any real long distance . So, I was driving and all of a sudden the engine began to shutter, it felt like it was cutting out I was at about 3800 rpm when I notice the power loss. A few moment later the engine total died. Pulled off into the grass in shame. Tired to start it and got nothing, Cranking just produced a fuel light cloud of vapor out the tailpipe. Sometimes it would hint of starting but nothing, would just crank. I pushed the car to the next neighborhood (sweating my arse off) along the 2 lane road by myself with a 35 mph speed limit and left the car there. Came back 45 mins later and tried starting the car and it started but ran really bad, very rough as it were misfiring. Exhaust was still very rich smelling. I went back home got a new ECU and my tools. By the time I got there (had kids to shuttle around first) it had been sitting about 90 mins. I put the replacement ECU in and it started right up. Began to drive it home, 2 mins into the drive it began to slight misfire again. Temp was not at the center position on the gauge yet. By the time I was in my driveway it was running really bad again and at operating temp. Barely made it into the garage.. I know the fuel pressure is good. Gauge in engine bay is stable around 35 psi. Car has a new coil, which I replaced 6 weeks ago and it’s run fine with that one previously. Took it at least 50 miles with that coil. So what could be the cause,? Obviously not the ECU because the problem came right back once the engine got hot. I checked the temp sensor on the head between cylinder 5 & 6 (yes ZX setup with P79 head), it was secure. I know this popping of will give you a rough runner. I’m leaning toward a problem with the ignition module. The E12 type on the side of the ZX distributor. It sits very close to the coolant hose and was very hot to the touch yesterday. Hasn’t been a problem in the past but it’s where my thoughts are focused. Cold the engine fires right up. I’ve read that there have been problems with these modules at time when they get hot. Anyone with any good ideas to begin my troubleshooting?

The Chinese are a threat to the world in many ways. They are the leader in CO2 emissions, are an authoritarian government that keeps its foot on the neck of its people, steals intellectual property, undermines civil liberties and uses it power and influence to strong arm companies and governments. The least of our problems are the crappy stuff they make but I agree. Not sure why we (western democracies) do business with them. The only reason I can guess is that we value money more that our western values. It’s like feeding the neighbors dog steaks over the fence, when everyday it threatens to chew your face off. We deserve what we are getting !

Cliff, when was the last time you rolled that queen out of the garage? Did you take it to the local ZCON festivities happening.

Thanks Gents. It’s sure easy not to take your own advice, Hard to believe I use to run a 300 man maintenance department that maintained 20 jets for the USMC. We had smart guys working in there and I was very familiar with the jet. I could land, and tell them….you need to inspect and or replace the “blah blah valve” before they put any test equipment on the airplane. Like DutchCarGuy said. I would then say. go through the maint publication step-by-step before you replace anything. My policy was to verify every gripe before throwing a part at it. The difference is with my Z parts aren’t $90k. E.g: My reverse lights don’t work. The switch on the transmission is $16, instead of testing I’m wanting to just replace it. If I’m gonna jack this car up I want to do it once. Sounds lazy?