26th-Z

I'll add to your answer Alan. HLS30-00026 is door date stamped 11/69 and HLS30-00027 is door date stamped 10/69.

Hi Kats! You propose a good method to establish a build date. So many people have questions about model years and build dates! I searched the archives for "date stamp" and there are several conversations about individual part dates and the meaning of the markings. Is you picture the back of your speedometer? Chris

I heard the seller had problems with the title, but.... When I first met Jim, we thought his was the only automatic VZ, but I have three accounted for now. Carl Beck remarked to me this weekend that we may find more because the automatics may have been a type of car that was used less and garaged more making them easier to find in better condition. Pure speculation, but interesting to consider. I have ten cars photodocumented, Vicky. Two yellows. Yours is the only yellow in that flavor I know of.

Check this site out. http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/ Kats is a member here and he deals with early car issues, but when it comes to nit-picky details, Kats is my hero. Get a Datsun parts book - one is sold here in CD form and pay close attention to the difference in part numbers and applications for your model. That will help. Otherwise have a good time and welcome aboard! Oh yes, make a good parts survey for your restoration plan and start buying parts as soon as you can. Good advice. It will save you $$$ in the long run.

The doors are going to look pretty funny with the window surround hanging off them. I spoke to Her Majesty about this issue some time ago and she advised that a proper 240-Z never has her doors hiked up in the air. (I think its a Fairlady thing)

Your reference is a Vintage Z. I think it will be expensive and a fine choice as a show car for someone's collection. Would really like to see this car in person.

I'm right there with ya, Stephen! I bought a $50 Triumph TR3 for a daily driver when I was 16. I walked a lot - bummed rides... It sounds like Scotty has about $5,500 to spend which is not a lot for something reliable. I will say this though, a 280Z would make a great starter car to learn on and tinker with.

Oh geez! I knew this was going to happen. I let my big fat fingers fall across the keyboard and now I'm in hot water. I'm caught on my normal perch; sitting on the fence watching passionate debate and admiring each presentation with the thought that we are getting far too anal. This is just like the good 'ol days in SCCA racing. We used to call it "bench racing". Carl, we are pretty much reading the same information. You want to know what I REALLY think? I think Nissan decided in the early '60s to look at exporting cars to compete in and increase it's automotive market share. I think Goertz was brought in for that reason - the Nissan design house began to broaden its focus - reflected in changes in hiring practices. For instance, Matsuo did not attend the design university Nissan historically hired from. I think that the initial concepts begun in the fall of 1965 were more in-house study than export oriented, but by the time the design studios converged in the fall of 1966, the project was export oriented. The S30 chassis is far too symetrical for me to believe that the Z was focused to one specific sales market. Too much effort has gone into the design of mirror image parts so as to economically produce quatities of either side drive. There may be a bias to right-hand drive, but that would be logical and there is hardly any evidence of it. The reverse image chassis design scheme is far too dominant. Actually, the S30 chassis tub is quite sophisticated for not only its structural rigidity, but the ability to economically produce any model version. Clearly, the Z car is export oriented to both left and right hand drive markets - which includes the home Japanese market. Now, bring in Katayama san. The success story of the Z car is clearly here in America and squarely in the lap of Mr. K. The bragging rights thing should be a nonsequitur and I wasn't involved in that statement. The vast majority of units were sold in America. There is no reason to belabor the point. I do not think Nissan had any idea the Z would be so popular, however. I think Mr. K and Matsuo san had high expectations and I am happy to see they were confident, but the guys back in Japan were clearly caught flat footed. They couldn't meet the demand for HLS30s. In the begining, there were six? build configurations of the S30. The S30, S30-S, HLS30, HS30, PS30, and PS30-SB. That doesn't indicate an American export focus to me. That indicates to me that I have two Japanese cars that were built to be exported to the United States. Now, it just so happens that the HLS30 comprises the vast majority of the six models built. I think Katayama had something to do with that more than luck. I also think that Katayama had something to do with the build specification for the HLS30. I find it in many ways unique compared to the other model build specifications and options. And this is what is going to bring me back to the topic! I think that in order to fully understand the American Datsun 240 Z, one must at least be cognizant of what was not exported to America. The Fairlady Z in question offers a unique opportunity to see a car we did not get. Its an early one, too! Cars out of market are always valuable in the collector world because we are striving for "unique" in our collections. So much for my thoughts and "bullshit". I don't want to hear any crappy remarks. Thats what I think and I am happy to sit here and watch the show. :knockedou

I wrote the seller but haven't heard anything back yet, Ben. This car is one of three I have documented automatic transmissions. Two of them are this color and one is 907 dark green. I believe this car as well as the dark green car were some of the first completed by Pierre and appeared at the May 3rd 1997 Vintage Z Rally. It is also quite possible that this car is pictured in the Z-Store brochure.

I enjoyed that. Thanks. I had missed it.

Will, You are technically correct about the zoning issue, but I think the business description is a stretch. Thats a low impact business. I do custom garages for clients all the time. Typically, my residential work involves four and six car garages incorporated with the house. I'm doing a house for a baseball player now, and the motor court provides comfortable spaces for twelve cars. It would be nothing to hire a mechanic to come in and work on his buddies' cars. I know mechanics with that kind of clientele. If you can afford to build it, you can afford to have someone come in and clean it. Some "garages" are built as entertainment rooms and the car is simply part of the art work. Some are grimey shops. Mine is a little of both with heavy emphasis on grimey shop.

This is great! We have bets going here! I'll bet over a grand. Do I win anything? Over on the IZCC site, bets are starting to come in on the Vintage Z on eBay. You guys are great! I didn't realise you needed pictures, Will. I didn't realise the trim rings came in two different finishes. Wonder what I have. Were there different part numbers for the different finishes? I saw a used set traded a few months ago for around $500. The new owner tells me that the lenses polished up very well. I hope to see that car at the national convention. I'm sure there will be cars fitted with the headlight covers at the MSA show. Mine will go on Her Majesty to support her bodacious scoops. I saw a set of ZG headlight covers on eBay in early summer 2003. If you search back, my thread should be in the archives. They were on for about three hours at "buy it now $200" IIRC.

Thanks. I recall a similar amount and will be pissed if they sell for less.

What does IIRC mean?

Eloquence fails me sometimes, Stephen. Nothing deragatory intended. I like the direction this conversation has taken. NovaSS deserves a big round of applause! AND probably a beer! Don't you think? The study of architectural history has been a similar experience for me. Trying to understand "origins and intentions" is very difficult. They are "moving targets" with respect to an evolution of design. The perception of one moment from the distance of another moment must be considered also. Take a look at the movies Kats posted of events in late 1969. Notice how different things appear to be from what you might expect to see today. Ask yourself how you might describe the events or write about them. I find myself in a very similar situation writing about the Vintage Z program. It is difficult to ascertain fact from the collective opinions of those involved.

Congratulations Stephan! You just got bullshitted! Took it hook line and sinker!

The letter Z is pronounced many different ways in different languages. For instance, German pronounces Z as "tsett". Z has meaning also and is used to symbolize "ultimate" and conveys the idea of infinite.

Should work real well then.

Zowwie! No intention on my part to get into an argument, however a few of the facts are getting a little distorted and I am begining to believes that whats I thinks are facts might very well be my own opinion. With regard to what I paid for #27 and what I got...I was offered twice what I paid for the car the day after I bought it. Fact. I was flattered and the fellow who made me the offer is one of my closer Z friends. The parts that came with #27 were very nice indeed, but hardly worth $1,000. I have purchased similar parts for #26 - on eBay. No "anyone" cannot purchase HLS30-00040 for $5,500. It was sold within days of the advertisement. Deals get snapped up fast. It was gone with hours of my hearing about it. Another low VIN car that sold for a similar price to #40 needed floors. I recently saw a low VIN parts car go for $1,000. I have been watching early VIN car sales and Vintage Z car sales for quite some time. I have been competitively buying parts and restoring components from dashboards to engines for two years. I think I have a pretty good grip on the market. I stick to my guns on the values I have mentioned. You have, in my opinion, a very restorable and potentially valuable car, NovaSS. I'm surprised it hasn't been snatched up like white on rice. It has long been my opinion that one cannot fully understand the phenomenon of the 240-Z without understanding what happened in Japan. Your example has several unique qualities which gives it a high value potential. RESTORE THAT JAPANESE BEAUTY What do you gus think of the dancer look fenders? Zebra stripes!

Electrolytic rust removal is just fine for blocks, but if you just had it hot tanked, what rust? The reason you can't find anything on the internet about hydrogen embrittlement from the electrolytic process is because there is none. Hydrogen embrittlement comes from acid cleaning processes.

Here is where it gets interesting. The backing plate to the air cleaner "lower" is part number 16528-E4600. The one on the left is from 26. Notice the nice round air horns. The valve cover breather vent tube bends inside the cleaner. There are other vent tubes on the outside for the carburetor vent hoses. The crankcase breather vent is just a hole in the backing plate. The mystery air cleaner has none of this. Notice the air horns are nipped off. Notice the screen for the valve cover breather - no tube. Also, there are no vent tubes for the carburetor or a vapor recovery system hose. There ARE dimples in the metal to mark the locations of where these lugs would be welded on to the backing plate, but nothing is there and there are no signs of modification. The piece is real clean. In my parts book, the air cleaner assembly is superseded a number of times. 16500-E4600 is good to 8/71. Then E4700 to 6/72. Then E4701 from 7/72 to 7/73. There is optional 16500-E4610 introduced 8/71. There is also 16500-E8800 introduced 9/71 "L24 Tropics". What do you think I have?

Lets start with the "can" - the outer "upper" part that has the air horn. The left picture is the can from 26. Notice how the air filter is held in place by spring clips. The picture on the right has rounded tabs to hold the air filter in place. The mystery cleaner has this type. From my parts book, both of these types are 16526-E4300.

You all must know what an eBay junkie I am. Over the months, I have picked up two early style air cleaners. These are the types with an open air horn and no damper or preheater outlet. I want to show you three cleaners using the original from 26 as an example to describe the other two. The air cleaner can and backing plate on the left is original from 26. The one in the middle is a later style that incorporates a vent tube for the fuel vapor recovery system in the Z. 26 has no fuel vapor recovery system and that is a peculiar issue with very early cars. The air cleaner on the right is the mystery cleaner. I can't figure out where / what it came from. Perhaps it doesn't belong on a Z car. Who has seen one of these? Here are all three. Detailed explanation and pictures to follow.

Ok! I got my pictures of my alternators! These came off 26 and 27. I just had both of them restored. They were both frozen solid and the staters had to be rewound to have them function again. The front fan and pulley need to be plated - not painted black. The fans are in good enough shape to be plated, but both pulleys are pitted from rust and must be replaced. The Datsun patches are just there for photographic interest.

Y'all make me laugh. Thanks. A 1969 produced Fairlady - VIN 144 - in poor condition, not running, with floor and frame rail rust issues, requiring full restoration but quite salvageable is worth between $3,500 and $7,000 in the United States. It may be worth more on the East coast than the West coast, but it is only worth what someone is willing to pay and accept at any given time. Those numbers are close to what the last four double-digit VIN cars in comparable condition I have seen trade for. This Fairlady may very well start, but I am not under the impression that she is a driver. Princess 27 was a dead toad and I paid $2,350. Carl Beck, you’re dreaming! Nice condition drivable Fairladys have been selling in the high teens to low twenties over the last year-and-a-half. A buyer should expect to spend over $30,000 to restore the car to show condition and I will use the Vintage Z program quality as a guideline. Easily $30,000. The same car completed is worth $35,000 and up. If you all think I would part with my "common" low VIN cars after they are complete for anything less, you need to go home, close the doors and windows and have a good cry. The last few Vintage Zs have traded in the high $20s to low $30s. Chris