26th-Z

I'm starting a discussion about the Z Restoration Program. Far too often, I see the program described as "Factory", have been guilty of using the F word myself, and objections have been justly raised in the past about the misleading term. I hope to gather accurate information about the restoration program in a comprehensive thread. Please refer back to the thread "wow-just listed". http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15893&page=1&pp=15 where this thread idea started. I want to assemble a comprehensive discussion of the subject. There are many aspects about this program that apply, such as the financial health of Nissan in 1996 and the discontinuation of Z car sales in the United States. There is no doubt that the Z Restoration Program was a marketing ploy, but a lot of interesting stuff can be discussed including the “value” of these cars. I want facts and references; serial numbers, colors, special fitment features – an accurate accounting of all the cars. I have started a bibliography. Look up the references. This is going to be along term project, so go out and do your homework and come back with your contributions. No bitching, dissing, or bad-mouthing allowed. The F word is out – don’t use it. V12horse – “There is a big difference between saying "Factory restored" (Which this car was not!) and being restored by respected restorers authorized by selected Nissan dealers (Which this car was!). I don't want to start a war about this, but I hope you and others realize the difference between the two”. Bambikiller240 – “It was not the dealers that authorized the refurbishment of theses cars. AFAIK, It was Nissan USA”. “Nissan is proud to announce our Z Restoration Program, a trailblazing venture committed to elevating vintage 240Zs to their original glory and, thanks to today’s technology, even beyond”. (Nissan Motor Corporation U.S.A. Nissan Z Restoration. 7-97-5M-CMG) See the two brochures -yellow and red - shown on the left side of the attached picture? I have those. The red one is entitled "rebirth" and describes what is officially termed as the "Z Restoration Program". Initiated in 1996, the Nissan program contracted private businesses to restore selected HLS30U types purchased by Nissan and resold through selected Nissan Dealerships termed “The Z Store”. The actual Nissan production facilities in Japan (factory) had nothing to do with the program. The 40-odd cars were produced by Classic Datsun Motorsports, PierreZ, and I thought Banzai Motorworks, however: Daddz – “I can safely say without a doubt that Banzai Motorworks was not involved in restoring any of the 50 or so Z cars purchased by Nissan N.A. However, Mike did sell 50 of his reproduction "OK" stickers to Nissan N.A. (When it's good it's good). The only two shops ever mentioned in the magazine articles of that era were Classic Datsun and Pierre Z. In one of the articles there was mention of a mass purchase consisting of somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 cars. There is a photograph depicting a bunch of them all chained together much like prisoners; only problem is that about a third of them ever saw the loving hands of either shop. You may recall that on ebay in two separate auctions some of what was left of the program was sold off very cheaply. In the first auction a BRG 240Z still installed on its dolly awaiting re-assembly that sold for approximately $6-8,000. As proof of that car's tie to the program was a letter from Nissan, N.A. written to the State of California asking that the new owner not be responsible for any fines or fees should the car be re-registered in the State of California. In another auction a lot of about 10-15 cars was offered at a ridiculously low sum of money and if I remember the auction wasn't completed. In that second auction it made mention that the cars were awaiting the "factory restoration"--the auction wording not mine-- and that since the program terminated early the remaining cars were to be sold off”. So fire up your scanners, practice your copy-clip technique and lets see if we can assemble a discussion of serious, complete, and accurate information about these babes. I gathered some information from PierreZ when I was out in California last spring. I’ll be working on posting some of it. Especially the way the engines were installed. Why, might you ask, am I interested in this? Because, I’m restoring two cars. I think this is THE standard by which we look at restorations of the 240Z. There is no intention implied that there are not other shops performing equal or better workmanship. The Z Restoration Program is simply a benchmark. Bibliography http://www.classicdatsun.com/zz/nissan.html http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6790&highlight=factory+restoration http://www.zonc.org/TechnicalInformation/VintageZ.html http://www.geocities.com/z-car/rebuild.html http://www.geocities.com/~z-car/rebuildpics.html

Ok, I'm starting a new thread.

Really good article, Carl. I lament over the racing we don't get in America, but then I shouldn't bitch for as close as I am to Sebring, Daytona, Hollywood/Miami, Moroso, Gainesville, and Road Atlanta. I loved the tri-lingual reference...ouch! So true. Froeliche Weinachten

Hello Kats! Great to here from you! Great news about the test drive cars. Wow! You have better photographs - I know! My best wishes to you and your family, my friend. If Sarasota was not so close to the tropics, it would be snowing this morning. Quite cool and raining lightily. The palm trees glisten in the mist and one can only imagine. We decorate palm trees down here!

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I have learned that Australia (go figure) commonly has clear glass. Cool! I confirm the part number for the clear glass. Add that to the hypothesis, Alan. It looks like the intention was specifically export oriented? I also agree with the idea that horizontal lines work better and go back to my statement about Datsun / Nissan on the cutting edge of design in 1969. The hidden hatch hinge sealed in a rubber boot was cutting edge as well. Compare the hinge to the S30's contemporaries. Now, I am not completely certain that the North American Testing Program cars had clear glass, but all the photos I have show no indication of heater lines. I wonder why Datsun would have not tested the heated glass. It seems like the perfect opportunity. Do we know anything about home market testing programs?

Who actually did the work? I think there were three shops - Les Canaday / Classic Datsun, Pierre Perot / PierreZ, and ?Mike McGinnis / Banzai? Am I correct about Banzai? Who were the body shops? Want to see pictures of the body cradles that were used in the chassis prep? Do you all want to know more about how they were restored? What the shops looked like? Three shops??? would indicate three different mechanical techniques and a distinguishing "fingerprint" of restoration? Is there any accounting of who did what cars? Have we ever discussed this, or have we always simply dissed the F word. Let's turn this into a legit piece of carcheology and bring together some information. I'll start a thread after the holiday. I have a bunch of stuff from PierreZ including a video that has been transcribed to DVD. I have a Nissan brochure from the Z store. Ol' Yeller is a Pierre, I think. Zmecca in Tampa has one of the automatics. I'll start a new thread. Interested?

Greetings gentlemen and happy holidays! Let the Tomas call me up and harrass me, Alan! I love hearing his point of view and don't you think for a minute that I believe all of it. :eek: The first "window sticker" I have posted is from Her Majesty; the yellowish print. The second is from a known 1970 production car. And the third is a blank from the 1972 model year. I am working on a collection of North American Service Bulletins which may indicate when the "change" was made, but this is a patient game and it may be some time before I aquire the information. I DO know that the illuminated switches began in January 1971 with what is refered to as the Series Two cars. I am glad to see people jump into this conversation. As "nerdy" as it may seem, some of us enjoy this aspect of "carcheology". I tend to think of it as an appreciation of what we are looking at when we view someone's car. I thoroughly love looking at cars, all cars, and like savoring a fine wine or topless dancer, I like to know a little bit about what I am looking at. Alan, you asked me if I have arrived at a conclusion. No. Here are some thoughts about the subject from my opinion. The clear glass was an intentional decision for the initial HLS30U cars. I used to think that the change of spec came from the North American Testing Program, but evidence of the clear glass in the higher serial numbered cars blows that explanation - perhaps. The hatch vent situation changed much later, and I am convinced that the hatch vents changed because of the Canada tour of the Program. I am fairly certain that the NATP cars had clear glass. There is no reason to discount the economic explanation. I am of the opinion that the HLS30 is more closely tied to the S30, however. The wiring harnesses contain the same features. We could argue floor mats and carpet, but these photos all indicate carpeting as a standard feature. For the record, 26 has rubber floor mats and 27 has rust. I suspect that the HLS30U (N,V) is a fully independent model specifically geared to a certain marketing profile. I don't know why, but it seems obvious that Datsun marketing thought to "tone down" the spec for the North American market. I think they underestimated what they could have sold for a higher price. I think that this conversation is fuel to argument that Datsun had no idea how popular the 240Z was going to be in the export variant. The rear window defroster was a cutting edge feature in 1969. Further indication of what impact the Japanese manufacturer's had on the American car market. I can only imagine if the Z would have come with cup holders! It seems some of the very first cars were sold with the defrosters as an option or dealer installed standard. Perhaps Datsun did not know if the Americans would appreciate heated glass? Perhaps some cars were fitted as an attempt to judge marketing reaction? I'm going out on a limb, but I think we are going to find that the vertical lined defrosters became standard some time around July through October of 1970. This was a period of major modifications and I think the heated hatch glass was one of them. The production numbers for the Series Two cars are too high to support the idea that the change was made at that time. This seems to be a low serial number thing. Thanks to every one who writes in and polls their car. It helps the collective knowledge.

I started a new thread.

I'm starting a new thread from the ash tray thread. The topic drifted from ash trays to console face plates to heated rear hatch glass. I am looking for the plug that fills the console plate area for the rear glass demister switch and we got into a conversation about the model types that were delivered without heated glass. Hi Alan, Happy Holidays The whole idea of which Japanese model was used as a basis for the American HLS30U model fits into this conversation, indeed. There are a number of peculiar fitment examples, both pro and con, for the conversation. Initially, the first American import 240Zs did not have rear window demisters. My shipping bill does not list the option as I have seen it listed as standard equipment on later cars. They came with clear glass. Give me time to go out to the shop and check; I have the part number. When I bought 27, it arrived with a bunch of spare parts. One large box contained a brand new piece of clear hatch glass. I can account for a number of early cars and have no idea when the part changed to the vertical lined demister glass. Here is what I know. Car #'s 16, 19, 20, 26, 27, 33, 40, 42, 52 and 95 have clear glass. Car 332 has clear glass, 279 does not. I think 793 has clear glass, but I'll have to check with the owner. #215 is on this site regularly. What say you, Mark? The demister "wires" on the glass seem to be applied to etched glass. I have not had any luck scraping the wires off. Cars equipped with clear glass had that blanking plug in the console switch location. The wiring harness has the leads for the demister glass, but the plastic interior headliner panel does not have cutouts for the wire connection. I can do a little more research on the subject and report back. I am always in the market for a piece of clear glass. And I have a brand new piece of vertical lined glass to sell or trade. :classic:

Brandy, No they are NOT all the same. Depending on your chassis (early series one or later series one) there are subtle differences in the mounting bracket distances and you might have to use a shim. Most anything past '72 won't fit the brackets at all. For the connoisseur, the early center valances have a larger return lip on the top. The lip is about 1/2" rather than the shorter 1/4" lip for later cars. The price mentioned is about right for decent pieces.

I did a blurb on ash trays a year or so ago. It's in the archives somewhere. Early ash trays came in black plastic with hollow handles and solid handles. They also came in grey plastic painted black. The little L shape chromed piece that mlc240Z talks about could very well be the tab with the grill broken off. I would be interested in seeing a picture. 26 didn't have a chrome grill inside - just a little L piece. I'm wondering. 27 has the chrome grill...err...rusted chrome grill. They both have grey plastic painted black a peculiarity of the early cars. I was able to find ash trays easily a year or so ago for around $25. Then they jumped to $75 minimum and I sold my spares. Should have held on to them, huh? I think the new one in my pictures above went for $250. Consoles have done the same thing in price, and now the choke plates have gone thru the roof. I am looking for the filler plug on the choke plate that fills the defroster switch cutout. Every console has the plug for the driving light / parking light switches, but I want one that fills the defroster switch as the babes don't have rear hatch defroster glass. Another peculiarity of the early cars.

Soap and water is just fine. Seat belt restoration services: http://www.ssnake-oyl.com/

Is this being cruel? The only glue I have found that will work on repairing ash trays is "SuperGlue". Ash trays have indeed risen in value over the last year or so. Yes, the series one snufter is quite different. Actually, there are three different variants of the original snufter. I saw a new one on eBay not too long ago. And before you ask, this is an old photo. No, I don't have any.

Thanks Vicky. I'll look into it. 29th would be a vintage racer in my stable. Perhaps restored to Ron Carter's standard or how about a Bob Sharp replicar? I would buy some land and build a barn big enough to hold all the cars. You DO realize that 20th- Z is available, don't you, Stephen? I would emass the entire 20 series family line and buy a huge tractor-trailer rig driven by Hooter's babes to travel the country and display the cars. I would have a whole swarm of Japanese Umbrella Girls to pose as spokesmodels and as soon as I win the lottery, the plan begins. Of course, we could start taking up collections here at the club. Send me your certifeid cashier's check for twenty thousand yen and I'll gladly refund the balance of your personal contribution!

Greetings RedHotZ!

Have you talked to Les Canaday? http://www.classicdatsun.com/ Try John Jefferies http://www.baddogparts.com/index.htm

I thought you were headed that way when you first wrote me. Lets see if we can't find 29th a good home. I must say that over the past year or so, I have seen quite a few nice cars trade hands. Keep your eyes peeled.

Replacement mast kits like that one have been unobtanium for some time. That little baby is worth some bucks!

Jerry, Start with a web search on chrome plating and read up on the subject. Then contact a few different platers and discuss your project and their services including pricing. Most platers won't quote you over the phone. A leap of faith is probably going to be involved. But read up on the process and the different types of services you can find. Discuss in full the type of work you think you will need and what your expectations are. Then decide who to deal with. There is cheap, thin plating like Nissan provided, and there is thick lucious chrome plating for museum pieces. I found a place in Alabama I will probably use. I know there is a drop dead fantastic place up around Philidelphia, but they were the priciest I found. Most plating shops will strip, weld, fill and grind. (edit) Sorry, I had to loose an eBay auction while I was writing this. :mad: The chrome plating that Nissan used is very thin and the base metals are thin. That is why they rust. Most chrome shops are going to provide a better result. As they say; "It's all in the prep work". And finally, I think it is still cheaper to buy new bumpers than to have them re-chromed. Rubber is getting harder and harder to find. I imagine someone will start making repro rubber soon.

All the time. Don't let them fool you into thinking that everything you can look up is available. What you do is order, give them your credit card number, and they bill you for what they ship you. Quite often they e-mail confirm the order prior to shipping and billing

Alan, You are absolutely right. And, looking back, I noticed I said the same thing. It's the "race-on-Sunday / Sell-on-Monday" American way of looking at things. Like NASCAR fans actually think there are Chevrolets racing out there! It's simply the American way of expression and no harm is meant. To us, the Fairlady is the 350 because that's what we can identify with. Porsche, BMW and Mercedes people have the same problem. Incidently, the NASCAR engineers and designers spend most of their time out of the country talking to European and Japanese teams about the latest technology. Few Americans realize that.

Yes perhaps, Vicky. Check this JGTC link http://www.jgtcusa.net/jgtc_origins.html The California event was more of a demonstration of how much fun they are having over in Japan. The top 25 cars from the series were invited as well as some American entrants. The race was 200km? I think and this car won in the GT 500 class. It is a Type Z33, 3 liter, twin turbo DOHC 24 valve developing 465+ HP at 5600 rpm (ie. "rocket ship"). Toshihiro Kaneishi and Erik Comas drove the car. The Xanavi Fairlady Z won the championship in the GT 500 class. I love that picture with Ron Carter's car; "A pair of champions"!

Yes it does remind me of IMSA, and that's exactly why I like it so much. Rock'm - sock'm - let's race action and spectacle extrodinaire. Money is no object / talent prevails, and may the best effort win. You all check out that link I posted a few threads up and make sure to catch the Umbrella Girls in the photo galleries. It is all part of the show.

Here are a couple of early photographs I have from the archives. The early poilce cars were indeed 432s. Hope this helps. Why deosn't someone build a replica?

Hello Jerry! Sorry to jump in on this thread so late, but I made it!!! Welcome to the club and thanks for posting your car (s). Pretty cool, huh everyone? Her Majesty the 29th is a racer!!! Jerry, there are a few fellows here who are well versed in the competition parts subjects and you will find quite a bit of information in the archives. Mr. W?? You make me smile HLS30-H!!!!