26th-Z

Back to the restoration program and the car on eBay....I would find favor with an automatic because they are not popular making them more rare. I don't think they will ever command the price though. Still, in good condition, I think this example would clean up to be a $20 - $25,000 car. It would be easy enough to clean the overspray off the door tag and I have a spare door handle around somewhere. A documented car can only appreciate. There is information around about the restoration program. I have one of the checklists describing the work - essentially everything was inspected and replaced as required. The 3M tape used to wrap wiring harnesses is specified, for example. A great deal of the FR information references Wick Humble. "How to Restore..." seems to be the best guide - still.

Vicky, There's a number / date stamped into the outside of the steel rim. For that matter, many parts are stamped with numbers and dates - inspection marks (ken), and production-line humor. Geez, I call YOU GUYS picky!!! Ben, It's a real dilemma for me!!! Here I look at how nice the suspension and subframe would look all powdercoated with shiny cadmium hardware, and then....the factory slapped yellow paint on the suspension nuts when they were torqued - just slap-splashed yellow paint all over with an old brush from a can. Talk about anal. I have a drawing of all the connections that were splashed - some in red paint. While cleaning everything carefully, I notice that some hardware brackets and bits are gloss black, some are satin, and even some are flat grey zinc. I am of the mind set to put this back together just that way. Powdercoating would be nice, but I can't help but do a better job with just paint. And the pressure's off!! I can be sloppy and get away with it!!! I have most of the parts to restore Her Majesty to dead stock original. Its looking pretty good at this point. A cloth radiator hose? Perhaps I should buy it and make a mold for "fabric textured radiator hose condoms". I also have a bunch of custom parts including that sexy Momo steering wheel. I should be able to display the car both ways. Some people say the factory did this only during early production, but I have seen it on later cars. This suspension is powdercoated.

Good job noticing the passenger grab handle is missing! Man, you guys are picky. I think the seat belt buckle is camera flash redeye or something as the rest of the pictures seem good. I have "reproduced" a number of items for the restoration of my car, but I would never go as far as making up RP documentation. That's just absurd. And if I were going to pay that kind of money for any car, I would get on a plane and go see the car, or at least have someone look at it for me. Vicky's description is right on for how to go about buying a car like this. Granted, $10,000 (or $30,000 for that matter) is inexpensive in the collector car market, but to a large extent, these cars are investment grade items like fine art and people don't purchase whimsically. My take on this deal - after reading you nit-pickers take it apart - is that this car was probably driven, used, enjoyed, and left out in the rain once or twice. It's no garage queen - I think we would all agree on that - with paint damage and signs of saggy baggy door panel old age. "No! We want fresh, young perky door panels"!!! This looks like a car that could be purchased reasonably and fixed up to a higher value. Vicky brought up an interesting thought I want to share with everyone when she compared her FR car to Zrush. If you have never seen Zrush in the metal, it will leave you with your jaw on the floor. The attention to detail is beyond description. Original, off the factory production line cars were NEVER that nice. They were cheaply constructed, quickly constructed, mass produced with very little attention to detail. Remember, these were cheap cars brand new and a lot of latitude was given when comparing Datsuns to market competition. This is the primary reason they sold so well - bang for the buck. I have struggled with this issue and had a long conversation with Mike McGinnis about this the other day. I intend to discuss this with Les Canaday when I see him at the ZCCA National Convention in a couple of weeks. Do I restore my car to outstanding standards or restore it the way it was originally constructed. There is a world of difference. Just for instance, I'm in the process of rebuilding the engine at the moment. I bought "I-ain't-bullshittn-you-Nissan-engine-blue" to spray the block. Should I assemble the block with the plated water tubes and engine mounts before I paint - getting overspray all over the bolt-on parts, or should I carefully paint the block and then attach the parts? Should I leave the paint runs on the engine mount brackets, or have them powder coated? If I show up at a car show with Her Majesty all decked out and you are the judge, will you blast me for my sloppy attempt at restoration, or will you appreciate the time and effort I went through to replicate exaclty how the babe was built? I took lots of photos. I can document all of it.

Hey, thanks Vicky. Jim and Carl both talked about someone locally, but they never gave me a name. I'll check it out. I have quite a bit to do. Two sets of bumpers, two sets of hubcaps, and assorted other stuff. I talked to a lace in Pennsylvania and a place in Alabama.

Isn't landmissle a memeber here? Mark is first in line. I've had enough trouble bidding against my fellow club members. I'm staying out ot this one as much as I'ld like to have it. I'm almost positive kats bought the last (pair) I saw on eBay well over a year ago and as I recall, they went for well over $100. GO FOR IT!!!

I looked into chroming quite a while ago and tucked most of the info away for the future. A lot of places do chrome work for bikers - picky bikers. There are bunches of places around - start with a web search and see if you can't find some places locally, because more than likely, you will have to ship the pieces to the place you decide on. There are chroming services and there are chroming services. You get what you pay for. The original Nissan chrome bumpers were cheap to say the least, and that's why they rust. They are also not very bump resistant for a bumper. The chrome process is actually several electro-metallic coating steps, (3?) begining with copper as I recall. The amount of time the bumper sits in the electro-bath determines the thickness of each metallic layer. The thicker - the better. Original bumpers have color distortion because the layers ar so thin. Good chrome work will dip the bumpers three times longer than the original. Initially, the bumper is stripped and cleaned to determine what metal work needs to be done. In between platings, the bumper is buffed and filled just as a body shop would sand between primers. The final chrome plate is buffed and polished. A good chrome job won't show ridged edges and blemishes like an original and the color will be much more consistant. Chrome places will straighten and fill, but it's costly. The whole process is labor intensive and one can see what results come from various price ranges. You could say price depends on how picky you are! Generally speaking, the cost of a new bumper is right there with the cost of having the old one re-chromed. Add the repair and fill work and the cost will exceed the cost of a brand new one. VB is advertising $450 for a 240Z front bumper and that's almost what I expect to pay to have mine re-chromed and get a better, longer lasting finish. Do a little reading on the web, check out what you get for your deal and decide if that's what you want. $280 sounds very reasonable.

Man, you guys are picky! The wheels are exactly like mine - dealer add-on spun aluminum "slots" - period correct. Too bad about the caps, though. I was under the impression that the program did only one A/T until I saw this car. I would imagine it will go pricey after last week's $30,000 dry run. Evidently, there are people out there buying unique examples.

Nissan made a clay prototype of a roadster as well as a targa prior to production. Go check your Brian Long books. Page 46. You will also see a picture of Matsuo and the boys standing around seven clays used in the design process. There were a number of pace cars built especially for Ontario Motor Speedway that where sun roof cars. Go check that story out on IZCC. Those cars should also have some peculiar welding on the body - like tubes to hold flags and suspension mods. When you look at an early ( '70, '71 ) sun roof car, check for other peculiar items and you may have an old pace car which would be fairly valuable restored - like $30,000 or so. Most people say that cutting a hole in the top compromises the chassis structure, but that is easily resolved with shock tower braces or a roll bar fitted the way Nissan designed the roll bar. I think a sun roof could be a nice addition and fit well. If I went to all that trouble, though, I wouldn't leave it out in the rain. Billramsey2002, i boxed your dashcap and'll sent it outa here Tues.

That's where mine was before I took it out. Triangular?

I'm with your advice, Marty. Z Therapy SUs are really nice and work great. If you are a stickler for authenticity, Mikuni / Solex is what Datsun sold in the competition catalog. I have never had a fire, personally. But take it from all the guys here - wear a shield. :classic:

I don't recall the speaker wires in the loom. Nor do I recall a speaker on the left rear quarter for an early car like that. The two rear marker light wires should be black and green/white. However this is from the USA series manual. I would not be surprised to see the wires in the loom even though the marker light was not installed.

"dJACEY" and "abas" come to mind also. Try replacing the fuel filter first and see what happens. It wouldn't hurt to drain the tank, but if the filter clogs up again with trash, the gas tank and fuel lines are the problem. It has always been my experience to leave the carburetors alone as much as possible and seek all other solutions first. There is a UK Zclub website like ours, and even though I would rather you hang around here, the chaps over there might be able to help you find a mechanic. www.zclub.net

Thanks Alan, I just saw that plate. Evidently, we are seeing pictures of the same car in Canada and it makes me wonder what happened to the other one. Coincidence probably. Thanks kats, your information is superb! I am clear about the production numbers now. It is fascinating to discover the process by which Datsun produced the first cars and brought the design forward. Your explanation of the Japanese terminology brings life to the story. The conversation about saving weight is quite interesting in that by saving weight and reducing the amount of material, cost is conserved as well. We have discussed this "value engineering" topic before, and it is testimony to the designers how well thought out the S30 was. Andrew, count me in on the fabrication deal. Let me know if I can do anything to help. I was talking to Mike McGinnis from Banzai Motorworks the other day. He said it will take a strong willed person to restore a car to such standards when most of the show judges are not aware of such peculiarities.

Bill, I no your pain,man. Feel it in my bones. Why dont you try this cap on for size. You glue it in place with silicone and block it down for 24 hours. Gives the dash dash a fresh look. PM me.

Mark, If I may beg permission to use kats' photo of his restored seat, I'm talking about the plastic corner guard screwed on to the seat frame. I don't know anyone other than kats who knows what those are. Even the low-serial-number gurus in Tampa have never seen them. I can't find a part number nor any reference to them anywhere. I used to have a set on Her Majesty. They are not attached very well and when you plop down into the seat, the upper edge digs into your thigh. Of course, they break, as they are plastic. The pictures of the seats in my parts books illustrate them with no part reference. Her Majesty has authorized the restoration engineer to aggresively purchase a set.

Alan, I arrive at the same conclusion and thank you for the explanation of the "extra" column in the production schedule photographs. I have all of photos you e-mailed me which led to my previous comments. Incredible as it may seem, I believe the test cars were HLS30-2 and 3. They had to be made prior to October. Nissan Motor Corporation!!!!:stupid: Were the cars crated and flown to California? I don't have a still shot of the video showing a license plate. None-the-less, excellent stuff. Research with the California Department of Motor Vehicles is called for to determine the tag issue. I find it hard to believe two cas would be licensed the same 2177.

It took me quite a while to find this old thread, but we need to reference it to this conversation. Good stuff. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9318&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 I found the pictures I was looking for, Alan. They are in this thread along with some of yours from the '69 Tokyo Auto Show. Kats, you say the cars were taken out of their crates at NMC. What is NMC? The drive to New Orleans first would have taken Osawa san and Uemura san through the low desert at a very hot time of the year and from Texas, East, during the later part of hurricane season. They drove up North along the west coast highway in late fall and down through the Teton Mountains some time after Thanksgiving - early December. A testimony to the cars and the team. What an adventure! I still don't have pictures showing 3 different license plates. The picture from the Phoenix Dog Track shows both cars with identical front plates - 2177 perhaps Japanese - and the Canada pictures show 060 ACJ on one car. Would the third plate be the other car in Canada? Kats, you pose an interesting theory about the VIN #s for the Canada cars. My data shows 12 HLS30s prior to October, but that does not agree with the production schedule you are using. Also, when I read the production schedule, I see two listings for June. It follows: 1 export car May 1 export car June 2 export cars July 1 export car August 2 export cars Septermber The schedule shows 17 total cars (dom and exp) built through August and 28 by the end of September. I don't think it is possible for HLS30-00004 and 5 to be the NA test cars. It seems apparent that cars produced up to October were used for study and those produced after October were intended to be sold. Depending on which information you believe, 12 to 15 HLS30 examples would need to be accounted for prior to October. I am begining to think the figures from the Parts Catalogs include October production as the production schedule from kats does not agree with 13 HLS30s prior. Beck accounts for HLS30-00006, 7, and 8 on his site, and shows them as October 1969 build dates which would coincide with the 52 export cars built that month. Getting on to the parts that may have been modified or added due to the testing...very early cars do not have sound tar on the rear deck. I know car #s 16, 19 and 26 have clear hatch glass ( no defroster ) and I had seat corner guards at one time. The air filter box without the air damper is early. Would it be safe to say the early series one modifications were made as a result of the adventure?

I just got off the phone with Jim who talked to Burt this morning (Tuesday) Someone came to look at the car over the weekend, called his buyer on his cell phone, told him it was the real deal, and the bidding went up from there along with a conversation about the arrangements with the buyer's agent. This morning, Burt contracted seller's remorse, didn't know what to do and pulled the car. I haven't had a chance to talk to Burt myself, but evidently the car is not for sale - at the moment - at this time - for now - who knows. Stay tuned for further developments.

New batch of photographs. Here is the VIN page I was talking about.

Halz, Go back a couple of pages and check out the map kats posted. What a great time those guys must have had! What a drive! Take for instance, the leg South from Canada down to Los Angeles. That drive was through the Grand Teton Mountain range just West of Yellowstone and down into the Great Salt Lake Basin. Further South, they drove through the Indian reservations just North of Grand Canyon and then West through Zion and Las Vegas on their way to L.A. Striking country, this land will really make a believer out of you. The Southern leg to New Orleans and back would have taken them through the low desert along the Mexican border and then further East into the high humidity region of the Gulf states. On their way back, they drove through vast areas of farm and cattle land to the high desert in Death Valley before descending to Los Angeles. I can't tell you what a life's accomplishment it would be to drive that route and all the people involved should be honored for what they accomplished and what they hold in their memories. Just awesome. They experienced every climatic condition to extreme and did it all without cell phones. The North American test drive is something to really appreciate and admire in it's significance. It is not a normal thing to do and the drive would surely stress any automobile to it's limits. Not to mention the people who did it. The counrty is rugged and the weather conditions could be horrendous - ice and snow to extreme dry heat, blowing sand to blowing buckets of water. It kind of makes me laugh when I think about it, and I'll bet a lot of the members here would chuckle too. "Lets take a couple of cars over to America and drive around for a few weeks - see what happens".

I just posted on "Z Car Value" thread. It is Burt's car and according to Burt in this morning's e-mail, negotiations for the sale of the car are underway - evidently a deposit has been made and it looks like the deal is going forward. Burt did quite a bit of work to the car, however I can't tell you first hand about all the details. I took some of the pictures in the eBay add http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2479364353&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT when I saw it in Florida last fall. Burt regrets selling the car, but felt it was more of a "trophy" and feared driving it for what might happen to it and the additional mileage he would put on it. Burt will be with us at the National convention in June.

In the morning e-mail was a note from the seller of this car. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2479364353&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT You may want to take a look. I know the car and took several of the pictures in the add. How about that for price!

My HLS30 data is that exact page - thanks.

Hello Alan, Your L20 response drew an; "Oh...of course" from me. Yes, I could see the handwriting all OVER the wall. I would have thought just the opposite about an S30S - fully loaded "super" bersion complete with Hitachi Surround Sound and Tokico heated seats. I was hoping you would comment on the printed data showing 12 VINs unaccounted for. Beck posts an interesting article which should be referenced; "The First Load of Z Cars to the United States" for our discussion of how to consider the production volume. He locates several of the early numbered cars demonstrating their existence and supposes what happened to the rest. I might take issue with which cars were on the first boat, my car breaking the rule Carl proposes. My car went to the East coast. True, it could have been off-loaded in California and many years ago I was told by telephone conversation with Nissan that my car was transfered from an Arizona dealer, but my documentation does not support either theory. Nor do the dates of delivery fall within the time line. Similarly, why would the Parts Catalog show C/# 00013 if the first car sold to the public was C/# 00016. I'll go out on a limb and support inclusion of the cars not sold to the public with the total production figures. C/# 00001 may have been destroyed, but evidence supports the fact it was built as a numbered chassis indicating commitment to production of the model. I do not support inclusion of the "white body" chassis or those without VIN stampings, rather viewing them as spare parts. I can just hear us go into the part number one discussion, but I just can't subscribe if the part doesn't have a part number. I'll get a picture of the Parts Catalog page tomorrow. I don't know what one might surmise other than a printed source of date / VIN relationship. The technical bulletins would have to support the data.