26th-Z

http://www.ssnake-oyl.com/

Thanks, Phred. That was a great explanation.

There have been a lot of threads in the past about favorite penetrating oils. The Marine / boat industry has some interesting stuff. PB Blaster is my favorite along with Kroil.

A Z can never have too much rust. There is only too much money involved in Z cars.

Oh, I love the boobs thread!!!! I was being real tongue-n-cheek with my comment. The boobs thread is a serious grin! Its so "car guy". Sorry, sorry, sorry. Lets see...I search the archives by keywords and the search engine pulls threads that have that key word included in the text. Three or four trys to find the old thread I am lookng for is not uncommon. And by all means, buy a service manual if you are going to work on your car! Duh!!!

Will, You wrote a very polite reply and that is pretty much the crux of the issue, here. I might add that over my months of time spent on this forum, I have found a number of people just don't read. I don't know if they are lazy or what, but I believe this web site is a reading type of "magazine" and reading is required. At times I can be patient and even go as far as look something up for someone, but I would really encourage everyone to realize and appreciate the amount of time it takes and what a great favor we are doing for each by responding to similar questions over and over again. I don't reply to everything, even the questions I might know the answer to, and I skip on a lot of stuff. There are many times I see someone doing something I consider stupid and before I write my sarcastic slam, I think to myself; "let them ruin their Z. It is one less car out there which makes mine more valuable". Hows that for attitude! The other day I was reading a posting about some guy who had mistakenly poured antifreeze into his engine and wanted to know if it would hurt anything. I thought to myself that if he doesn't know, he shouldn't be changing the oil in his car, but I said nothing. I want to suggest that for fun and grins, everyone should browse through the archives every now and then instead of going directly to the current topics. You will be amazed at what you find and written by whom. The archives on this site are one of its greatest assets ( along with the photographs ) and are really under rated compared to the "Boobs" thread. Can you imagine? Here we all are - Z heads - with all this documented knowledge, and the seemingly most successful thread, in spite of the arguments about keeping our material relevant,....Oh, I'll just sit down and shut up.

All of a sudden it occurs to me; "Look it up in the book"!!! Here is what I have. The FSM goes on to say; "WARNING BUZZER It operates if the door is unlocked with the key inserted in the steering lock" The warning buzzer is installed on the steering support. And then back to Kats' original question; would the judges mind"? I find it hard to imagine the judges would know, let alone object. Further more, all of this would require removal of covers and peering up under the dash to see. Of course, it could be audibly demonstated. I'll also comment that the more I look at my cars and compare parts to later manufacturing dates and later models, the more I find different. It's maddening, the number of peculiar parts I have to deal with. I could hypothetically go down to my Datsun dealer and buy new replacement parts for my car and I would probably end up with something like a Vintage Z. Or I could take the original stuff and restore it to good working order - used, but still working. What a fun game, huh?

Yea, mine is different, Carl. 1969 stuff, ya know. It takes the single sided, egg lobe key (short one). I won't be able to get out to the shop to look at it until Sunday. The picture I posted was in the files from when I rebuilt the locks for 26th.

Don't listen to all the whining and complaining SportZ. Great magazine, love the 350Z and you guys do a great job.

Carl, Looking at your pictures again, I am noticing discrepancies between what I have and what you have. The chassis number HLS30-05401 is listed as 05041. Also, why are you listing the chassis numbers as six digits? They are five digit serial numbers. Then, you have a red car listed as a serial number I have for another car altogether! Holy Smoke! We need to get together and compare notes! I have a serious bunch of photographs of Vintage Zs for which I have no serial numbers yet. Working on it. One of the key cars missing is the first silver Vintage Z. Some of this info can be tracked down. We'll get there!

I think Kats is talking about this type of ignition switch. Notice the black box on top of the cylinder.

Carl, This is my favorite picture of Ol Yeller. Looking at your pictures, HLS20-96203 is a dead attachment. HLS20???? Here is HLS30-00630, also. "Are you saying that you have found 26 of the VZ's? Is that the half you have?" I have so much stuff here, Carl, that there are probably pictures of all 52 of them! As soon as the building boom in Florida slows down, I'll sort through all this and get something organized! Middle of May. Chris

Flip over to the ZCCA site - Zcars - Z history and check out this "compendium" about Mr. K. http://www.zcca.org/pages/ZCarsZhistoryMrK.htm This is a good example of what I am up to. Not really a book....a booklet.

Thanks Kats! I want to let everyone know that I am working hard on my research paper. A growing number of Vintage Zs have been found and documented. I have photos of probably half the cars. I have seen and photographed four of them myself. Current values have been documented. The research material includes over 30 articles and related documents. All kinds of activity is going on and I have scheduled a meeting in Virginia with my "mentor" to go over the rough draft and set the "compendium" in its final direction this May. The final document is planned to be ready for the national convention in August and I plan to discuss making it available with Mike here on this site. So many people have helped and I really appreciate every bit of information sent my way. Everyone keep your eyes peeled for Vintage Z information, cars, and photographs. Many, many thanks! Chris I hope to assemble a very comprehensive, informative look at the program and the cars. So far, the work has taken quite a bit of time, but the final result should be great reading

Ok, (Kats will love this conversation) so lets say I bring 26th to the stock class and Kats is the judge. Lets say my stock steel wheels do not have the correct date for my car. And lets say my hubcaps are the later style. As the car sits, Kats cannot tell if the hubcaps are correct or what the date is on the wheels. Should he make me take the hubcaps off? Should I refuse? Perhaps I should buy Kats a beer and try to distract him! Yes...good idea I made plans to attend the Tidwater Z Car Club "Z Odyssey" in May and hope to participate as a judge. This conversation and your other thread, Ed, will go with me. I should be able to get some good answers from the gang in Virginia. Keep the faith. Try to be as correct as you can. And we all have fun!

I suggest we not try to compare "correct" by Kats' standard, or mine for that matter, with Vintage Z Restoration Program cars. Vintage Zs are not "correct", they were not intended to be "correct", and don't belong in a "correct" conversation. Perfect examples of the differences were pointed out by Kats in the original thread. Lets say you bought a Vintage Z. Would you really want the "correct" fan that ate water pumps? Would you really want a 40 amp alternator that wouldn't power a flashlight? How about hub caps that fall off when you go around a corner? Want to pay $25,000 for those? Vintage Zs are not "correct" for many, many good reasons. I suggest we admire each other for our "correct" cars and our insane efforts to reach the ultimate "correctness" at any cost. Its a different game we play. We are crazy, correct, and it makes us smile!

Kats, I saved that list and use it for reference. You lead the way for detail - impressed Jim and many others. You would make a good judge! It is fun to talk about the different parts from early cars. If you ever see the Vintage Z in Japan again, I would love pictures and the VIN # for my research. Judges will only subtract points for incorrect parts they see. Fuel vapor tank, ignition lock and such cannot be seen easily and the chances of having points off are small. Cars cannot be viewed for a very long time because of the show schedule. Only the obvious is seen, but if the car makes it to the medallion round, judges take a longer time. For most of your questions, I would say the judges would mind if they knew what they were looking at and could see it. My impression at the moment is that very few people know as much as you do about early cars. I thought you entered the Daily Driver class on purpose! Chris

No need to fret. No gold plating - just that golden zinc / cadmium stuff!

Writing in to clarify a couple of points. 26th-Z is NOT being acid dipped. I consider acid dipping destructive. I have no intention of letting 26th or 27th (restored) go for anything low like $30,000. Any car is only "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it at any given time. Thank you.

My guess is 919 sunshine yellow.

Cloth insert seat upholstery has been a popular aftermarket item for decades. This is because they are more comfortable and the original vent buttons used to tatoo people before it was fashionable.

Alan, My first, from the hip, thoughts were to not allow ourselves to get caught up in the lingo, but you bring up a good point. Actually two points. Is it fair to equitably consider all the HS30 variants? Is it fair to group the S30 variants with the HS30 variants? After all, distinction is made between engine size of the American exports. Perhaps the ZCCA rules are American oriented, but what blame can be cast? HLS30s are simply too common in the States. I might suggest that - for example - a Japanese HS30 (2.4L) or S30 (2.0L) would have a uniqueness edge, all things equitable. Another example; a Fairlady Z-L 2 by 2 (GS30, 2.0L 5sp) and a Datsun 260 Z 2+2 (GRLS30, 2.6L, 4sp). Both were produced during 1974 - 1975. No question in my mind over the presence of a PS30. Thus the subjective nature of judging. I must agree that clarification should be addressed. I might also suggest that written clarification be given to what constitutes a modification. Aside from the obvious, do the "allowances" in the class descriptions make for a considered visible modification, or are they assumed modifications beyond the limiting number of visible modifications permitted? A friend of mine just bought a low VIN car and called the other night to ask about the choke cable. He has an original braided wire type and I told him about the service bulletin that replaced those with solid wire. The ends are clearly visible at the carburetor linkage. Personally, all things equitable, I would have to go for the braided cable. However, I wouldn't normally deduct for the solid wire type. The conversation resulted in the preservation of the braided cable. I'll also take this opportunity to stress the cleanliness oriented aspect of the current rules and how it keeps the format light and fun. The whole affair is clearly subjective and is probably more competitive on these pages rather than on the showing field.

TomoHawk, Stock means stock. If a part is replaced during the life of the car that is not exactly like the original, then it is not stock. That goes for everything on the car. People spend fortunes and hundreds of hours replicating the exact assembly "as it left the factory". It takes a lot of training and knowledge to discern between model years and types. There are informational resources that will tell you what month a certain part was changed, for instance. It can get that picky. Did you know that original spark plug wires were dated? They can't be replaced! But we seem to spend too much time belaboring the stock idea. The stock guys know what stock means. Alan, I might suspect you would ask how the foreign irrelevant cars might be treated. :laugh: We had such an experience in the Stock 280ZX class at Z-Fest last February. A 1981 280ZXT in silver and black. 20,000 original miles. As I understand, one of three exported. Fortunately, it was clean and there was no real need to pick at it. Won the class and was one of five contenders for “Best of Show”. I don't think there would be head scratching over a Fairlady. More like total delight! Think about this: a "stock" 432R. gnosez, Your comment about engine paint points to the need for more clarification in the rules. Exterior body color is open, but engine color is a mod? Lets say I put an L28 in a 240Z in Street Modified. I get penalized with a mod because the engine color isn't correct? WTF? Let me try to start an argument, please. Wheels and tires are 0 mods.

I understand that the gold car was a clay and only 3/4 completed. Almost thrown together for the 1998 Nissan "Road Show". That was the "Field of Dreams" promotion photographed in a corn field. Development of that prototype incorporated a DOHC four cylinder engine. But Z cars have six cylinder engines! The new 350Z incorporates all sorts of design technology that the S30 didn't have. Mid-ship design and the flat ride concept have been brought to the new Z. The wheels are on the corners to emphasize squat and stability. There is 4" less wheel overhang than previous models. The corners are tapered so that the body overhang is diminished from the quarter views. The top is concave to appear lower and sleeker. The 350Z presents a contrast between soft body curves and sharp geometric accent. It is an expression of current automotive design theory. In contrast, see the pictures below showing concept cars from the period of the S30. Notice some familiar lines? I contend that the original S30 was intended to have headlight covers and the characteristic scoop we Americans have come to love is peculiar only to the States. See my picture of the P2 prototype. By expression, the 350Z headlights mimic the original. I love the 350Z. Ok, trivia question: what do the three squares in the new Z logo signify? Suggestion: read "Lust, then Love"; Ron Sessions, Publications International, Ltd. 2002

Nice! Congrats!