26th-Z

Even though I am still collecting information, I stick to my guns. "As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people (edit: sources), including Katayama." As soon as I find any sort of NMC documentation that uses the word "factory", I'll let you know. Promise.

Carl and group, When I started this thread, I received a few e-mails from people concerned that the conversation would turn into another "he said / she said" dispute and I pledged to "report" corroborated, documented information - hard evidence that I could point to and perhaps share. There is plenty of it around. I also pledge to retract anything that I "report" incorrectly or misinterpret. That happened a few posts ago. I am also very amenable to report all the “he said / she said” conversations I hear and suggest they be represented as such. I am still aggressively gathering information. I don’t think there is enough material to write a book about or that anyone would buy it, but there is definitely enough to write a long essay and as of this post, I announce my intentions to do so. I will be conducting this similarly to a “semester research project” that I’m sure many of you can relate to. Everyone who contributes gets credit and the final document will be available to everyone. As I write, I will post so that everyone can comment, contribute and encourage. I think that Vintage Zs represent a unique chapter in the history of a unique automobile and the story needs to be told accurately; however the chips may fall. It is a good reading story from the looks of it. Thanks for calling today, Carl. I will happily come and help you dig through your archives. I appreciate all the help you can offer. I don’t want you to think that I believe everything in print, either. Verbal recollections of events certainly help to reinforce what was written at the time. As we discussed over the phone, the letter makes no reference to buying up old cars, restoring them, and selling them again. However, it IS a critical piece of the story – no doubt. And that’s where this information is coming from. Old Z club newsletters, magazines, photographs and home movies. I’m currently waiting for a collection of photographs and a magazine article from Australia. I just received a collection from Atlanta. Another superb collection has been located in Washington. Several people actively involved in the Program have indicated their support. That’s how wonderful the response has been. I can’t thank everyone enough! I surely intend to do something worthy of all the help. Here are some pictures from home movies.

Jerry, I asked this same question to a bunch of people a year or so ago. The concensus was; "Its your car, you do what you want to". Frankly, no matter what you do, somebody is going say something. That's just the way the car game is played. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't pick on each other. I was so confused by the whole concept that I bought another car!! Yea....

Hey Carl, Just a quick reply to say that I have another long post worked up concerning the production process with a bunch of photos. Mike Taylor is one of four people with their hand in the air at the moment. And I haven't talked to half the people I really need to contact. You should see the information I'm finding. Right now, Mike Taylor has a 25% chance of being correct in my mind. I said in the begining post that this was a sensitive subject. Yea!!! As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people, including Katayama. The NMC U.S.A. invitation is entitled; "Vintage Z Quality Control Launch Rally" and the Logo for the event says; "Vintage Z Rally". Thanks for all that info, Carl. It is scheduled for another long write-up with bunches of pictures. The first car, silver '70, was there along with 3 other HLS30s and an S32. Katayama's famous yellow HLS30 was the lead car. Two of the Vintage Z HLS30s were automatics. I can now account for three automatics in the program. Oh! and Carl, we're planning a Z mecca day with honored guests 1/29. And I just registered for ZFest.

Pearl Jam "rearviewmirror" is in the Cd player right now. I do have a couple of special "road music" Cds people have given me. I'll dig them out and list what's on them.

Thanks! Here's the picture. Mindfull of the copyright - Nissan Motor Corporation.

Thanks Carl. That is pretty much the picture that is going to emerge. What does a corporation do when they kill the very car that made them famous? Katayama appeared at the induction ceremonies for the final 300 ZX proclaiming the Z was not dead and pitching Nissan products. Does someone have copies of the correspondence - say the invitation sent to Katayama? There are people writing to me asking about such documents. There are people writing me asking for hard documentation to corroborate many of these events. Case in point....Most people will tell you that there were two or three shops involved in the Program. There were four. Nissan documentation includes a production figure for two of the shops at a certain date. Another point…The Z Restoration Program was a two-phased program initiated with the sale of later model cars. That issue was announced at the Vintage Z Rally / Picnic in 1997. The later model cars were already on sale. For a fact, at least one Vintage Z was completed on a customer specification basis. It went to an editor of Autoweek magazine equipped with an Eibach suspension kit, custom exhaust system, spook and spoiler, and other modifications. I love the recollections that I have been hearing, but who was "a representative from the American clubs was sent to Tokyo to plead with Nissan to revive the Z." Representing what American clubs? Where is the correspondence surrounding that? With whom did this person meet? You see, the story is a good one and as I dig into this a little, I am beginning to see where a lot of it originates. Some of it is based in fact. Some of it is a little off color. Actually, I started all this because of the off color F word. The F word is a press interpretation of Nissan marketing. It is taking me some time to sort through the facts. I just got fooled by Road & Track! Many thanks to MikeW, Bambikiller240, 2ManyZs, gnose, halz, JLPurcell and others who have written with suggestions, comments, and information. Thanks to you, Carl, for the information you gave me the other day. I still have plenty to write about. Information is still coming in. I am hoping for a most factual discussion of the project. Here is Dale Ishimoto (I am uncertain of the spelling) with Yutaka Katayama at the Vintage Z Rally and Picnic, May 3, 1997.

Hey John! You make a good point about the pace cars. I see that Beck has updated his article about the cars as well as pictures. Trying to track these cars down is a huge task. Then there is the privacy of the owner factor. For that matter, trying to track down the Vintage Zs is going to be a task. Did anyone save pictures of the eBay cars (two or three of them) from last May? One of them was an automatic and I would dearly like to see pictures - any pictures - of any of the cars. Come-on you guys! Dig out your archives! In the mean time, here are some of my photos of the console plaque and glass emblems.

Before I sit down and write some more, I need to correct my post with the Road & Track photographed car. What bothered me was the issue with the dates. I understood the first car was completed in February, months after when this article would have been written. But look closely at the glass and you will find no Vintage Z emblems. This is not the car that "Autoweek on Speedvision" used for their report, March 1997. I don't see this car in the videos of the Vintage Z Rally, May 3,1997. Although, I do see the "Autoweek" car at the rally. I think the yellow example is a "pre VZ" car. Sorry.

Thanks, I have been watching it I don't need a piece of glass, but it would be nice to have a spare. However, the deal is that the glass is not rare. I know it is NLA, but for how many cars? How many show car projects out there need a piece of clear glass? I don't think there is much of a market. It is going to cost $130 to ship, so that's a consideration. The auction started at $100, then it jacked to $400, and now it is $300. I'm out - still too much for me. I am also in the midst of a parts trade for a piece of used clear glass and I'm afraid if my friend sees the eBay glass go for golden nuggets, our deal will fall through. The defroster option is much nicer and those pieces of glass go for around $150 or less. Seriously, there are pieces of clear glass out there. You just have to go looking. Don't let this eBay GAFFF continue! RARE IS A MISUNDERSTOOD WORD! I DID check Princess 27 for the wiring yesterday and she does NOT have wiring in her harness for the defroster. Her Majesty's harness is in a box...somewhere....

Hey new2z! It doesn't sound like the black paint is very well applied and stripping might very well be the best solution, especially with body work you are proposing, but consider just sanding it. Get somebody to show you how to sand a car, but get the rough spots with a rough grit first and then fine sand and wet sand. You will get to bare metal spots - don't worry about it. You are going to sand the car after you strip it anyhow. Try sanding it really well and see if that doesn't do it for you. It sounds like you have never done anything like this before. Do your hood first. It will give you a lot of experience and keep your car intact while you try this out. Take the hood off, lay it on a table, and re-finish it. That task will give you a really good idea of what the car is going to be like. You are talking about months of work to a garaged car. Winter will be long gone before you are ready to paint. As far as painting the engine bay- its just a matter of how much you are willing to take off or mask. I never liked Her Majesty's engine bay and that was another reason I took her apart. For color, I always prefer the cuffs to match the collars. That goes for door jambs too. As long as you have the rubbers, pop the glass and paint the whole thing. 907 green is possibly THE most common / popular color of the early birds - shows a nice waxing very well. Have fun and good luck!

Here is the Nissan published reprint from Road & Track's article on the Z Restoration Program. This must be the "journalist" car; one of the first completed. It was done by Pierre and includes a short biography of him; "An instantly likable, French-born former race mechanic, Perot headed the Renault racing effort in the early sixties, preparing an M63 Alpine prototype in 1963 for his close personal friend, Mark Donohue. More recently (for the past 21 years, to be exact), he has been racing, modifying, restoring and maintaining Z-cars out of his shop, Pierre' Z in Hawthorn, California." The date of the article has me a bit confused. My understanding was that the first cars were not completed before February and this article must have been prepared months prior. There was plenty of publicity though. The oldest reference I have is “Back to Its Rootz”; Automotive News, Mark Rechtin, October 28, 1996. Pierre recalls that Nissan approached him in October, 1996. You will notice a lot of modifications in the photographs. You will see custom mirrors and a stereo right off the bat. The article states that stock wheels and hubcaps were put on for the photographs (replacing slotted mags) and the custom air cleaner was replaced. I have long contended that many Vintage Z examples are not stock reproductions. I have been listening to a discussion about Nissan providing restoration services to private customer cars and I am aware that some pre-order Z-Store customers were able to provide their own spec. I am aware of those cars. Here is further proof. This material is copyrighted; Road & Track; "Datsun 240Z; Japan Reinvents the Sports Car", Douglas Kott, February 1997.

Yes it is pretty much the same - check the part numbers between the two. I am just now stumbling on to information like this. There are great libraries out there and as I get hooked into the banter between the librarians, I learn and find a great deal of information. Frankly, a generation of classic Z people have passed and we are still talking about the same stuff that made up tech articles in the 70s and 80s. There is a vast wealth of information out there. Mostly, held by the guys who have been around the longest. Still chasing the idea that Datsun issued a defroster "decal" to dealer fit the early cars with. Still rumor.

The trouble with getting But's car, is actually getting it! I saw it last night, and I did NOT leave the stain on the seat! Don't blame me! I think it's from all that crazy e-mail you have been posting, Burt, if you are reading this. You guys are comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Burt supposedly DID get a valid offer in the 30s range. He should have closed the deal. He also (supposedly) got a valid offer in the mid 20s and he should have closed that deal too, in my opinion. Am I mistaken, but is this eBay red car the same one that was in Colorado about a year ago? Remember that one was in the $25,000 range? Does anyone have old eBay pics of any of the Vintage Z auctions they want to send me? Congratulations to whomever bought it! Is that you, Jay?

Z Restoration Program – the program name Vintage Z – title of the cars Z-Store – outlets that sold the Vintage Zs The collection of information is growing and a few points about this discussion are beginning to clear. The cast of characters is widening! I just want express special thanks to everyone who has written, phoned, and offered information and opinion. This is a controversial subject, there is a lot of information about the program, and I am pleased to announce that so far, no reference mentions the involvement of Goertz! Most of the information I now have, is published by Nissan Motor Corporation U.S.A. and if I refer to Nissan or NMC, NMC NA, or NMC USA, I mean Nissan Motor Corporation U.S.A and respect the copyright. The “Z Restoration Program”, “Vintage Z”, and Z-Store”, are copyrighted names as well. The documents I have been able to secure include: “Rebirth”; 1997 “Greetings from the Z-Store at Nissan Corporate!”; No Date (late ’97, 25 cars produced). “Nissan Proudly Presents – “Vintage Z”; May 3, 1997 “Vintage Z Quality Control Launch Rally”; May 3, 1997 “News Coverage as of May 27, 1997” “Popular 240Z Restoration Parts”; 1998 “240Z Restoration Program Quality Control Checklist”; January 8, 1997 Let me begin by saying that it is quite obvious that the Z Restoration Program was a publicity / marketing focused effort. The bibliography I hoped to collect has now expanded to over 59 “news coverage” publications, 9 automotive magazine articles, and 25 television news programs with a combined estimated audience reach of over 84,252,000. By comparison, my bibliography of American automotive magazine publications – reviews and road tests – for the 240Z up to 1972 totals 19. The audience reach study was done on the 27th of May, just after the May 3rd unveiling. I think it is safe to say that Nissan did this for publicity and marketing reasons. Hoping to benefit from improved image and name recognition after slumped sales and the discontinuation of the 300ZX in 1996, Nissan Japan approved the Nissan USA proposal and a budget for the program was established. “Fortunately, the following for Z-cars is just as strong as ever. After the 25th anniversary celebrations in Atlanta, a representative from the American clubs was sent to Tokyo to plead with Nissan to revive the Z. President Hanawa and the staff in the USA were so impressed that a number of older examples were rebuilt with the backing of the factory and sold as new cars. This was an unprecedented turn of events for a major manufacturer”; Yutaka Katayama, “Fairlady Z Story” (translation), Long, Miki Press. “We hope this program has helped bring new life and new interest to all Z’s out there, and we anticipate that this program has increased the value of your own vehicle”.; Greetings from the Z-Store…1997 “As you may recall, several of the first cars delivered were for special programs, such as a “press car” reserved for journalists…”; Greetings from the Z-Store…1997 There are other references to how and why the program started. It seems the budget grew as demand and sales grew. It seems widely agreed that the program was beneficial, if not financially, for Nissan – calling on their successes of the past. It was not long after the program that the 350Z was announced. I am pleased to confirm that Vintage Zs were constructed at the following four facilities: Pierre Z Car Center; Hawthorne, California Classic Datsun Motorsports; Vista, California Old Car Service; Huntington Beach, California Datsun Alley; Signal Hill, California There is a lot to this story, guys. I can see why there is talk of writing books. This story is a journalists dream. ZCCA is heavily involved. Katayama spoke at the introductory event which included a car show and rally. I have a home video of the show, May 3, 1997 at Nissan National Headquarters, Gardena. There is a conversation about how the “Z-Store” was initiated. There is a conversation about how the program grew and about it’s demise; why ,when, by whom? A Vintage Z was sold at the 12th Annual Monterey Auction (Rick Cole) for $35,000. Vintage Zs were sold to Japan, London, and United Arab Emirates. There is a controversy about parts – what parts went on what cars – and authenticity of restoration. I have a definite opinion for an editorial, but I’m going to gather some more info for that thread. When the program ended, there were parts left over that went to private concerns. The restoration checklist document offers an insight to how the cars were restored and it appears as though Nissan kept records of the most popular replacement parts along with costs. A great many chapters, eh? Jerry, can’t wait to hear what Les had to say.

It turns out that the Technical Service Bulletins of that era were published in book form and include the full line of Datsun models. Searching for the one particular situation is rather complex and tedious. I did find this, and although it doesn't answer our particular discussion, it does offer some informative insight. Of course, I apologized for the quality of the copy. Only the best for you guys! I'm still working on more information. This is Service Bulletin TS72-29, Aprill 11, 1972, pertaining to HLS30 models. It outlines the installation of horizontal wired glass, but note the yellow highlighted sentences indicating that wiring for the heated glass is not in the harness for serial numbers below 1456. I will consult the Asian Twins and report back.

Is that a fog lamp switch in the mystery hole?

Just jumping in to compliment Ron. Seriously nice rig. I think that is the first time I have seen it. Last time I saw your car was at the convention. It's come a long way! Can't wait to see you again at the MSA.

With luck, I am going to come up with the service bulletin that advises dealers to install the heater elements with an adhesive kit. With more luck, I'm going to come up with the part number for the adhesive kit. The research monster is on a winter quest. There could very well be a correlation between the HLS30U and the HLS30UN, Bob. I was told the other day that 85% of 240Z sales were in the Sourthern part of the country. No confirmation of that. But, I will confirm that my cars do not have the extended air cleaner horn with air door or the pre-heater hose. I'll get you some pictures. They just have an open air horn.

During competition, Alfadog, no one is riding in the back. Too much extra weight, eh? Very nice, Ben, and all my jealousy for the new year! Thanks for the pictures.

Here are some good photos of restored suspension. The yellow dabs are inspection paint indicating the nut was torqued.

Add to the Bibliography: Sport Compact Car magazine, August 1997 Autoweek, May 26, 1997 Automobile magazine, June 1997 Here are a couple of scans from the Nissan publication "Rebirth", copyright Nissan Motor Corporation U.S.A.

Oh! That's Jim in the red shirt and Billy in the shorts. I'm taking the picture. I'm not an old guy. Well......I don't think I am. I'm in better shape than Jim! Good luck with Billy. I think I paid him $700 or so to get #27 from Delaware to Tampa. All the other places I called wanted $800 or more. 27 was a dead car, too. If yours starts up and drives, the price should be less.