26th-Z

Billy Springle, Springle Transportation Services www.stscars.com 14656 63rd Court North Loxahatchee, Florida 33470 (561) 436-4681 TugRacing@aol.com I met Billy at Hooters during the Porsche Rennsport Reunion. He had just delivered a bunch of Porsches. Billy delivered Princess 27 to me last summer. Cool guy. Pay him in cash and tip him. Use my name. Chris Wenzel

Complete agreement, Phred.

Thanks Bob and thanks Jerry! I'm taking the day off Thursday to devote to a research mission. I have arranged an audience to one of the great collector LibraryZ. Bob, your connection is another great LibraryZ. We should find some interesting information and expand our bibliography. Jerry, I have not contacted Les. Go for it! I want to mention that I am hoping to come up with some other interesting information from my visit to the LibraryZ. It seems some documents I have been looking for are closer than I thought. Should be fun. I also want to mention some of the private e-mail I have been receiving and thank everyone for their interest and writing to me; their suggestions, contacts and comments. I think I discovered the origins of the F word. I also think we might run into some sensitive issues about the Z Restoration Program as we get further into this. I want to reiterate my intention to establish a comprehensive bibliography of the published material on the subject. Not that all the written material is completely factual, rather identifying what was said and in what context. It would be a dream to account for all the cars. Lets see how far we get. How many of you saved pictures from Restoration Program cars that have been on eBay or other classifieds? Here is a blurb from the Nissan publication "Rebirth"; 1997. "When available, genuine Nissan parts are used. And in those cases when non-Nissan parts are used, quality non-OEM parts are approved by Nissan engineers, specifically for use on these restored cars". "Some vehicles shown with optional equipment. See actual vehicle for complete accuracy". And ..."not all model years, colors or option combinations will be available".

Thanks Eric! I had remembered that there was at third shop involved - Datsun Alley. I was also told today that Marc sold the business. More as that develops. Let's add to the bibliography of essential reading: Long, Brian; "Datsun Z, Fairlady to 280Z", Veloce Publishing 1998 - chapter 8, "Buying and Restoring an Early Z". The pictures I posted of the silver car came from Nissan N.A. press pack about the Z Restoration Program. Those and several more are published in Long's book. "An amazing restoration - the result of around 300 hours' work. Nissan North America will sell the restored cars through a limited number of dealers across the States, with prices running at around $25,000". The postscript paragraphs of Chapter 8 describe the essence of the program. Many of the points we have discussed in the past, in past threads, are brought to light in this reading. We are going to discover / uncover quite a few issues that have been points of debate in the past; that which may debate what Nissan published to the press concerning the intent of the program.

You are writing the book, Tomohawk!

Would you put me in touch with Marc, please, Juan? My e-mail address is cwenzel at earthlink dot net I'm still raising the troops and would love to speak to him. If anyone wants to write me, put Z Restoration Program in the subject line. Thanks I had the chance to express some other thoughts to a private message this morning. I want to emphasize respect for the privacy of car owners and copyright laws. I plan to put watermarks on information I scan and describe where I got the information. I don't think we really need to know who owns what cars. What comments do you have concerning copyright issues, Mike? Let's keep this discussion professional.

This is going to be quite an undertaking and I’ll need as much help as I can get. Don’t you think? Should be fun! I know there is a lot of published information out there – magazine articles and such. If anyone would like to mail information to me, use my business address; 513 Central Avenue #101, Sarasota, Florida 34236. I will gladly return material as requested, but I don’t mind copies at all. If you have magazines, post the issue and date for the bibliography. In order to obtain information, I’ll need to write e-mails and letters. Any introduction you might be able to give me would be appreciated so that I’m not given the brush-off as if I were some quack or ricer fanatic. I seem to have more information about the PierreZ operations than anything else. Most of the info I have is PierreZ related and I have this nifty video. Perhaps still photos can be made from the DVD to post. I have almost nothing about Les Canaday’s involvement. Nissan contacted Pierre Z Car Center in September 1996 based on references they had about their work. An agreement had been reached by October and the first car was completed in February 1997. Nissan envisioned restoration of approximately 200 cars and Pierre Perrot proposed limiting his private customer services in order to accommodate the Nissan project. Facilities had to be organized to physically restore the cars and special equipment such as body dollies and rotisseries had to be fabricated. Initially, the agreement was for restoration of one car to see how the project was going to work. (See photo below) By May of 1997, the project was in full swing and Katayama san visited the facilities at Pierre Z Car Center in Hawthorne, California. A number of candidate cars were purchased based on their condition and “restorability”. Primary emphasis was placed on the condition of the body shell – meaning “rust free”, and matching serial numbers were verified. The cars were disassembled by hand and all parts were cataloged and examined. Parts that could not be restored were replaced with new (NOS) or original (OEM) or from donor cars. We will get into the parts conversation more in depth as we will see that parts became a defining issue with the program. To the best of my knowledge, all the selected candidates were 1970 – 1972 model years. I am not aware of any serial number accounting at this time, however I believe all the cars were HLS30U types. During this time, ten Nissan dealers were selected to sell the “Vintage Zs” based on the past sales performance and interest of the dealers. They were: Jake Sutherlin Nissan, Tampa, FL Sutherlin Nissan, Marietta, GA Esserman Nissan, Miami, FL Coggin Nissan, Jacksonville, FL Universal City Nissan, Los Angeles, CA Performance Nissan, Duarte, CA Stevens Creek Nissan, Santa Clara, CA Bankston Nissan, Irving, TX Courtesy Nissan, Richardson, TX Brown's Fairfax Nissan, Fairfax, VA I don’t know much about the dealer distribution program. It seems that initially, the distribution was California focused, but as you can see, there are three dealers in Florida for me to contact. I find it very interesting that Bob Sharp Nissan is not on the list and that the list does not contain distribution in the Northeast and Midwest. For those of you who own one of these babes, or know someone who does, please describe the car and post photos with the model date, date of original manufacture (on the door jamb) and serial numbers including the Vintage Z number. As parts and originality seem to be an issue, the peculiarities of your car would be very interesting. I can assure everyone that strict adherence to part / year correctness was NOT made and that many cars were equipped with modifications. We can get into that issue as well. Thanks for all the interest! :classic:

I'm starting a discussion about the Z Restoration Program. Far too often, I see the program described as "Factory", have been guilty of using the F word myself, and objections have been justly raised in the past about the misleading term. I hope to gather accurate information about the restoration program in a comprehensive thread. Please refer back to the thread "wow-just listed". http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15893&page=1&pp=15 where this thread idea started. I want to assemble a comprehensive discussion of the subject. There are many aspects about this program that apply, such as the financial health of Nissan in 1996 and the discontinuation of Z car sales in the United States. There is no doubt that the Z Restoration Program was a marketing ploy, but a lot of interesting stuff can be discussed including the “value” of these cars. I want facts and references; serial numbers, colors, special fitment features – an accurate accounting of all the cars. I have started a bibliography. Look up the references. This is going to be along term project, so go out and do your homework and come back with your contributions. No bitching, dissing, or bad-mouthing allowed. The F word is out – don’t use it. V12horse – “There is a big difference between saying "Factory restored" (Which this car was not!) and being restored by respected restorers authorized by selected Nissan dealers (Which this car was!). I don't want to start a war about this, but I hope you and others realize the difference between the two”. Bambikiller240 – “It was not the dealers that authorized the refurbishment of theses cars. AFAIK, It was Nissan USA”. “Nissan is proud to announce our Z Restoration Program, a trailblazing venture committed to elevating vintage 240Zs to their original glory and, thanks to today’s technology, even beyond”. (Nissan Motor Corporation U.S.A. Nissan Z Restoration. 7-97-5M-CMG) See the two brochures -yellow and red - shown on the left side of the attached picture? I have those. The red one is entitled "rebirth" and describes what is officially termed as the "Z Restoration Program". Initiated in 1996, the Nissan program contracted private businesses to restore selected HLS30U types purchased by Nissan and resold through selected Nissan Dealerships termed “The Z Store”. The actual Nissan production facilities in Japan (factory) had nothing to do with the program. The 40-odd cars were produced by Classic Datsun Motorsports, PierreZ, and I thought Banzai Motorworks, however: Daddz – “I can safely say without a doubt that Banzai Motorworks was not involved in restoring any of the 50 or so Z cars purchased by Nissan N.A. However, Mike did sell 50 of his reproduction "OK" stickers to Nissan N.A. (When it's good it's good). The only two shops ever mentioned in the magazine articles of that era were Classic Datsun and Pierre Z. In one of the articles there was mention of a mass purchase consisting of somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 cars. There is a photograph depicting a bunch of them all chained together much like prisoners; only problem is that about a third of them ever saw the loving hands of either shop. You may recall that on ebay in two separate auctions some of what was left of the program was sold off very cheaply. In the first auction a BRG 240Z still installed on its dolly awaiting re-assembly that sold for approximately $6-8,000. As proof of that car's tie to the program was a letter from Nissan, N.A. written to the State of California asking that the new owner not be responsible for any fines or fees should the car be re-registered in the State of California. In another auction a lot of about 10-15 cars was offered at a ridiculously low sum of money and if I remember the auction wasn't completed. In that second auction it made mention that the cars were awaiting the "factory restoration"--the auction wording not mine-- and that since the program terminated early the remaining cars were to be sold off”. So fire up your scanners, practice your copy-clip technique and lets see if we can assemble a discussion of serious, complete, and accurate information about these babes. I gathered some information from PierreZ when I was out in California last spring. I’ll be working on posting some of it. Especially the way the engines were installed. Why, might you ask, am I interested in this? Because, I’m restoring two cars. I think this is THE standard by which we look at restorations of the 240Z. There is no intention implied that there are not other shops performing equal or better workmanship. The Z Restoration Program is simply a benchmark. Bibliography http://www.classicdatsun.com/zz/nissan.html http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6790&highlight=factory+restoration http://www.zonc.org/TechnicalInformation/VintageZ.html http://www.geocities.com/z-car/rebuild.html http://www.geocities.com/~z-car/rebuildpics.html

Ok, I'm starting a new thread.

Really good article, Carl. I lament over the racing we don't get in America, but then I shouldn't bitch for as close as I am to Sebring, Daytona, Hollywood/Miami, Moroso, Gainesville, and Road Atlanta. I loved the tri-lingual reference...ouch! So true. Froeliche Weinachten

Hello Kats! Great to here from you! Great news about the test drive cars. Wow! You have better photographs - I know! My best wishes to you and your family, my friend. If Sarasota was not so close to the tropics, it would be snowing this morning. Quite cool and raining lightily. The palm trees glisten in the mist and one can only imagine. We decorate palm trees down here!

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I have learned that Australia (go figure) commonly has clear glass. Cool! I confirm the part number for the clear glass. Add that to the hypothesis, Alan. It looks like the intention was specifically export oriented? I also agree with the idea that horizontal lines work better and go back to my statement about Datsun / Nissan on the cutting edge of design in 1969. The hidden hatch hinge sealed in a rubber boot was cutting edge as well. Compare the hinge to the S30's contemporaries. Now, I am not completely certain that the North American Testing Program cars had clear glass, but all the photos I have show no indication of heater lines. I wonder why Datsun would have not tested the heated glass. It seems like the perfect opportunity. Do we know anything about home market testing programs?

Who actually did the work? I think there were three shops - Les Canaday / Classic Datsun, Pierre Perot / PierreZ, and ?Mike McGinnis / Banzai? Am I correct about Banzai? Who were the body shops? Want to see pictures of the body cradles that were used in the chassis prep? Do you all want to know more about how they were restored? What the shops looked like? Three shops??? would indicate three different mechanical techniques and a distinguishing "fingerprint" of restoration? Is there any accounting of who did what cars? Have we ever discussed this, or have we always simply dissed the F word. Let's turn this into a legit piece of carcheology and bring together some information. I'll start a thread after the holiday. I have a bunch of stuff from PierreZ including a video that has been transcribed to DVD. I have a Nissan brochure from the Z store. Ol' Yeller is a Pierre, I think. Zmecca in Tampa has one of the automatics. I'll start a new thread. Interested?

Greetings gentlemen and happy holidays! Let the Tomas call me up and harrass me, Alan! I love hearing his point of view and don't you think for a minute that I believe all of it. :eek: The first "window sticker" I have posted is from Her Majesty; the yellowish print. The second is from a known 1970 production car. And the third is a blank from the 1972 model year. I am working on a collection of North American Service Bulletins which may indicate when the "change" was made, but this is a patient game and it may be some time before I aquire the information. I DO know that the illuminated switches began in January 1971 with what is refered to as the Series Two cars. I am glad to see people jump into this conversation. As "nerdy" as it may seem, some of us enjoy this aspect of "carcheology". I tend to think of it as an appreciation of what we are looking at when we view someone's car. I thoroughly love looking at cars, all cars, and like savoring a fine wine or topless dancer, I like to know a little bit about what I am looking at. Alan, you asked me if I have arrived at a conclusion. No. Here are some thoughts about the subject from my opinion. The clear glass was an intentional decision for the initial HLS30U cars. I used to think that the change of spec came from the North American Testing Program, but evidence of the clear glass in the higher serial numbered cars blows that explanation - perhaps. The hatch vent situation changed much later, and I am convinced that the hatch vents changed because of the Canada tour of the Program. I am fairly certain that the NATP cars had clear glass. There is no reason to discount the economic explanation. I am of the opinion that the HLS30 is more closely tied to the S30, however. The wiring harnesses contain the same features. We could argue floor mats and carpet, but these photos all indicate carpeting as a standard feature. For the record, 26 has rubber floor mats and 27 has rust. I suspect that the HLS30U (N,V) is a fully independent model specifically geared to a certain marketing profile. I don't know why, but it seems obvious that Datsun marketing thought to "tone down" the spec for the North American market. I think they underestimated what they could have sold for a higher price. I think that this conversation is fuel to argument that Datsun had no idea how popular the 240Z was going to be in the export variant. The rear window defroster was a cutting edge feature in 1969. Further indication of what impact the Japanese manufacturer's had on the American car market. I can only imagine if the Z would have come with cup holders! It seems some of the very first cars were sold with the defrosters as an option or dealer installed standard. Perhaps Datsun did not know if the Americans would appreciate heated glass? Perhaps some cars were fitted as an attempt to judge marketing reaction? I'm going out on a limb, but I think we are going to find that the vertical lined defrosters became standard some time around July through October of 1970. This was a period of major modifications and I think the heated hatch glass was one of them. The production numbers for the Series Two cars are too high to support the idea that the change was made at that time. This seems to be a low serial number thing. Thanks to every one who writes in and polls their car. It helps the collective knowledge.

I started a new thread.

I'm starting a new thread from the ash tray thread. The topic drifted from ash trays to console face plates to heated rear hatch glass. I am looking for the plug that fills the console plate area for the rear glass demister switch and we got into a conversation about the model types that were delivered without heated glass. Hi Alan, Happy Holidays The whole idea of which Japanese model was used as a basis for the American HLS30U model fits into this conversation, indeed. There are a number of peculiar fitment examples, both pro and con, for the conversation. Initially, the first American import 240Zs did not have rear window demisters. My shipping bill does not list the option as I have seen it listed as standard equipment on later cars. They came with clear glass. Give me time to go out to the shop and check; I have the part number. When I bought 27, it arrived with a bunch of spare parts. One large box contained a brand new piece of clear hatch glass. I can account for a number of early cars and have no idea when the part changed to the vertical lined demister glass. Here is what I know. Car #'s 16, 19, 20, 26, 27, 33, 40, 42, 52 and 95 have clear glass. Car 332 has clear glass, 279 does not. I think 793 has clear glass, but I'll have to check with the owner. #215 is on this site regularly. What say you, Mark? The demister "wires" on the glass seem to be applied to etched glass. I have not had any luck scraping the wires off. Cars equipped with clear glass had that blanking plug in the console switch location. The wiring harness has the leads for the demister glass, but the plastic interior headliner panel does not have cutouts for the wire connection. I can do a little more research on the subject and report back. I am always in the market for a piece of clear glass. And I have a brand new piece of vertical lined glass to sell or trade. :classic:

Brandy, No they are NOT all the same. Depending on your chassis (early series one or later series one) there are subtle differences in the mounting bracket distances and you might have to use a shim. Most anything past '72 won't fit the brackets at all. For the connoisseur, the early center valances have a larger return lip on the top. The lip is about 1/2" rather than the shorter 1/4" lip for later cars. The price mentioned is about right for decent pieces.

I did a blurb on ash trays a year or so ago. It's in the archives somewhere. Early ash trays came in black plastic with hollow handles and solid handles. They also came in grey plastic painted black. The little L shape chromed piece that mlc240Z talks about could very well be the tab with the grill broken off. I would be interested in seeing a picture. 26 didn't have a chrome grill inside - just a little L piece. I'm wondering. 27 has the chrome grill...err...rusted chrome grill. They both have grey plastic painted black a peculiarity of the early cars. I was able to find ash trays easily a year or so ago for around $25. Then they jumped to $75 minimum and I sold my spares. Should have held on to them, huh? I think the new one in my pictures above went for $250. Consoles have done the same thing in price, and now the choke plates have gone thru the roof. I am looking for the filler plug on the choke plate that fills the defroster switch cutout. Every console has the plug for the driving light / parking light switches, but I want one that fills the defroster switch as the babes don't have rear hatch defroster glass. Another peculiarity of the early cars.

Soap and water is just fine. Seat belt restoration services: http://www.ssnake-oyl.com/

Is this being cruel? The only glue I have found that will work on repairing ash trays is "SuperGlue". Ash trays have indeed risen in value over the last year or so. Yes, the series one snufter is quite different. Actually, there are three different variants of the original snufter. I saw a new one on eBay not too long ago. And before you ask, this is an old photo. No, I don't have any.

Thanks Vicky. I'll look into it. 29th would be a vintage racer in my stable. Perhaps restored to Ron Carter's standard or how about a Bob Sharp replicar? I would buy some land and build a barn big enough to hold all the cars. You DO realize that 20th- Z is available, don't you, Stephen? I would emass the entire 20 series family line and buy a huge tractor-trailer rig driven by Hooter's babes to travel the country and display the cars. I would have a whole swarm of Japanese Umbrella Girls to pose as spokesmodels and as soon as I win the lottery, the plan begins. Of course, we could start taking up collections here at the club. Send me your certifeid cashier's check for twenty thousand yen and I'll gladly refund the balance of your personal contribution!

Greetings RedHotZ!

Have you talked to Les Canaday? http://www.classicdatsun.com/ Try John Jefferies http://www.baddogparts.com/index.htm

I thought you were headed that way when you first wrote me. Lets see if we can't find 29th a good home. I must say that over the past year or so, I have seen quite a few nice cars trade hands. Keep your eyes peeled.

Replacement mast kits like that one have been unobtanium for some time. That little baby is worth some bucks!