klpete45

First, thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. As it turns out, there were in fact two separate, unrelated problems (as some of you had already guessed). A new clutch master cylinder solved one problem and allowed my to resolve the second as well. Once the clutch was working, I was able to rock the car back and forth and pop the frozen rear brakes loose. I had previously determined that this was the problem by removing a rear wheel and attempting to rotate the tire. The tire would move only as much as the the brake shoes would wiggle on the backing plate - the axle never even wiggled. Sounded terrible when it popped loose. I will never leave the emergency brake on for extended periods again.

Ok, just to confirm that I"m confused, I don't understand why the clutch pedal would fall with no resistance if the clutch plate is stuck to the flywheel. Since contact is the normal position, and depressing the clutch pedal causes the pressure plate to disengage the clutch plate, wouldn't that (a frozen clutch plate/flywheel) have no effect on the movement of the pressure plate? Or, are you saying that since the clutch plate stays frozen in place, the pressure plate may also be frozen? If this is the case, wouldn't that make the depressing the clutch pedal more difficult instead of less?:stupid: Oh well, hopefully I'll find out this weekend. I have already checked the front wheels and they spin freely. I also tried the starting in gear several times with no apparent luck. So now to the back end which is going to be a real challenge in a one car garage. I need some of those wheeled car movers that one puts under each wheel and then pushes the car around. Thanks, Ken

I wasn't aware of the correct protocol for posting. Didn't mean to offend anyone by posting on 2 different forums, I just wanted to get the greatest exposure. Sorry, now I know better. :nervous: Thanks to all of those who have responded. I tried starting the car in gear, but didn't do any good. Brakes are not locked - I pulled the wheels and checked. Will try the master cylinder route this pm . Thanks again. Ken

I've also posted this on the Engine and Drive train forum: I've been out of town for 2 months and today I decided to take the ol' Z for a cruise. However, this was not to be. The clutch pedal fell to the floor with no (or very little) resistance. OK, I figure that since it worked perfectly last time it must not be very serious, after all what can happen to a clutch when the car is just sitting in the garage? My first thought was that the master or slave cylinder may have failed (I've never had to replace either so they must be fairly old) and the clutch lines appear to be intact and there is no fluid on the floor. So, I'll just push the car outside where I can work on it - oops, it won't move. With the emergency off and out of gear, it still remains firmly planted. I can put it in neutral and start it and it sits still and if I try to engage a gear, it grinds (as expected). However, what would keep it frozen so that I can't push it? Can the throwout or plates rust in place so that the clutch would not engage? If so why wouldn't the car move when I started it? It bebaves as though the gears where engaged. Does any of this makes sense to anyone? I would appreciate any suggestions. Specifically, 1. Why can't I push the car when its in neutral and the brake is off ? 2. why might the clutch pedal fall as it now does? 3. are these two events related (I''m sure they are)? 4. which caused the other to occur? Thanks for any help, Ken

I've been out of town for 2 months and today I decided to take the ol' Z for a cruise. However, this was not to be. The clutch pedal fell to the floor with no (or very little) resistance. OK, I figure that since it worked perfectly last time it must not be very serious, after all what can happen to a clutch when the car is just sitting in the garage? My first thought was that the master or slave cylinder may have failed (I've never had to replace either so they must be fairly old) and the clutch lines appear to be intact and there is no fluid on the floor. So, I'll just push the car outside where I can work on it - oops, it won't move. With the emergency off and out of gear, it still remains firmly planted. I can put it in neutral and start it and it sits still and if I try to engage a gear, it grinds (as expected). However, what would keep it frozen so that I can't push it? Can the throwout or plates rust in place so that the clutch would not engage? If so why wouldn't the car move when I started it? It bebaves as though the gears where engaged. Does any of this makes sense to anyone? I would appreciate any suggestions. Specifically, 1. Why can't I push the car when its in neutral and the brake is off ? 2. why might the clutch pedal fall as it now does? 3. are these two events related (I''m sure they are)? 4. which caused the other to occur? Thanks for any help, Ken

sblake01, not a problem. I received a couple of emails the intimated that I was recommending this swap and wanting to know what made me such an expert. I'm certainly not an expert, I was just trying to share my experience and opinion. I'm glad that your fan is acceptable to you, I sure wish mine was also. One has to really concentrate to feel the air coming from the driver's side vent and the passenger side is not much better. I really can't imagine anyone who could be comfortable in my car on an August afternoon. I have read of others who also share the same problem. My compressor and other A/C componets are ok. Air temp at the center vent is ok ( I forget exactly what it was, but the tech said it was more than satisfactory). I'm certainly open for sugguestions. As I mentioned before, I'm going to look into the electrical side of the equation.

sblake01, not a problem. I received a couple of emails the intimated that I was recommending this swap and wanting to know what made me such an expert. I'm certainly not an expert, I was just trying to share my experience and opinion. I'm glad that your fan is acceptable to you, I sure wish mine was also. One has to really concentrate to feel the air coming from the driver's side vent and the passenger side is not much better. I really can't imagine anyone who could be comfortable in my car on an August afternoon. I have read of others who also share the same problem. My compressor and other A/C componets are ok. Air temp at the center vent is ok ( I forget exactly what it was, but the tech said it was more than satisfactory). I'm certainly open for sugguestions. As I mentioned before, I'm going to look into the electrical side of the equation.

The question has come up as to why I would put a Honda blower in a 280. The answer is twofold; 1) the old blower had died and I had to replace it anyway and 2) since it didn’t pump enough air to cool the car in 80 – 100 degree weather (which covers at least 5 months in Oklahoma) and I had seen several threads on several sites that indicated that the Honda blower MIGHT be an improvement over the stock 280. I have previously insulated the firewall, tunnel and floor with a dense ½” foil backed foam insulation and my duct work has been sealed so that there are no leaks. My A/C system has been checked by a certified shop who concurs that the inability to cool the car is due to insufficient air flow. Since I don’t like to leave my Z idle for 5 - 6 months, I thought why not try the Honda motor? Would I take out a functioning stock blower for this swap? Probably not. And if you are happy with your stock blower or don’t mind sweating giant puddles every time you drive, then leave it alone. I posted the step by step because I hadn’t seen it done elsewhere. I don’t believe that I advocated or recommended this swap to anyone.

Well, I finally got around to installing a 1992 Honda Civic blower motor into my 1976 Z. While I had every intention of photographing the operation, I didn’t! I got carried away in the process, and didn’t think of taking pictures until the motor was installed.:stupid: Oh well! Here is the procedure I used and the results: 1. Remove the plastic trim piece under the glove box to allow better access to the blower. 2. Remove the glove box lid and liner. Even though I have a full dash cover, I was still able to pull the box liner out through the front opening. It was tight, but by wiggling it around a little I was able to pull it free. 3. Remove the air hose that goes to the passenger side windshield defroster. This has no purpose except to provide better access. 4. Unplug old motor and remove it. Remove any gaskets that stick to the air housing and the 3 rubber mounts that fit between the fan motor and the housing. 5. Try the new motor for fit. Yep, that’s right, it doesn’t fit! At least mine didn’t, the blower cage was slightly larger circumference than the stock unit. From what I have read here and other places, apparently the 280 housing has a smaller opening than the 240. 6. Plug the new motor into the existing power supply plug and make sure that it works. The fan motor has a female T plug and the car power supply is a male T so that works perfectly. I found that this step was much easier is someone worked the ignition key and fan switch while I carefully held the unit by the motor. Be careful and don’t let the fan hit anything (especially your fingers). I don’t believe it would hurt anything, but it sure would be startling. 7. Using a 2” diameter by 2” long grinding wheel on my electric drill, I enlarged the hole in the housing. Actually, it took 2 wheels as they were cut up rather quickly by the narrow, metal around the opening. Wear gloves and safety glasses as this is a rather tight work area and I frequently slipped and hit my knuckles on various hard things. The top half of the opening is accessible through the glove box opening. I didn’t use my battery powered drill because I don’t think it would cut as well as a faster plug-in type. While this was certainly not my idea of fun, it didn’t take nearly as long as I thought it would. I didn’t time myself, but I don’t believe it took more than 30 – 40 minutes including several short breaks and trial fittings. 8. The open end of the blower fan (the end that goes into the housing first) has a reinforcing ridge around it, so it is larger than the rest of the fan. If you can squeeze the unit into the hole, it should have enough clearance to work. Once inserted, hold it in position, plug in the power and have someone help you through the power-up procedure again. If there is no rubbing, then you’re good – to – go. 9. My fan came with a good gasket. If yours’ didn’t, then you will need one. I mounted the fan flush with the housing (as opposed to mounting it with the 3 rubber bushings between the motor and the housing). 10. Plug in the power supply (a perfect match on my motor) and run the fan through its speed range. Check for rubbing and/or air leaks. In a perfect world, the power cable in the car would be several inches longer, but it works as is. I didn’t do all of this at one time, but I don’t think it should take more than 2 – 3 hours to accomplish. Was it worth it? Well, I don’t know. The fan performed much better than the stock fan on the bench, but in the car it was barely noticeable. The real test will have to wait until this summer to try the A/C in the Oklahoma heat. In the meantime, I’m going to do some tests to determine the current available at the fan. I suspect that I’m not getting full potential because of poor current flow in the old wiring and slider switch. This is a simple project, and if you attempt it, I wish you the best of luck. Ken

Did you use just the motor and the 240 fan, or did you use the Honda motor and the Honda fan? I tried the '90 civic motor and the Z fan, and it wouldn't fit. thanks, Ken

Thanks,turns out it was the ignition relay under the dash. I didn't even know there was such a thing until it was replaced. Thanks for everyone's input. Ken

sblake01, wow! Thanks, it is support like this that lets a marginally compentent person like me survive the trials of an older car. My dealer didn't even have manuals for a '76 and none of the mechanics had ever worked on one (actually, one guy had done struts on one). They had no more idea of what the problem was than I did:stupid: However, they have a dealer network and that is how they came up with the ignition relay idea. I had been through the wiring diagrams that I have and done continuity checks on all of the circuits that I could identify and they all checked out. I was oblivious to the fact that there was an ignition relay. Guess I really should break down and get a factory manual. Thanks again, Ken

Ok, thanks, I feel a little more confident than I did earlier. :stupid:

I finally gave up trying to fix my own car (reference: New alternator and new vorltage regulator and still won't charge thread). Now the dealer tells me they THINK it might be the ignition relay. They want over $250 to install a new one. I have looked at the wiring diagram in my Haynes book and the index and can't see that it has an ignition relay. A web search of Autozone also doesn't show one. I also checked two aftermarket catalogs and they don't show ingnition relays until 1980! Does my car have one (or should it have one)? TIA, Ken

Only one of my fusible link boxes is labeled. The one closest to to battery is labaled IGN and H.L. What are the other two links? I built a jumper with spade connectors and a 20 amp fuse and replaced each link in turn. My gages still didn't work. How about wiring to the switch? any possible connection there?