waynekarnes

Wayne - Amen! I am copying that reply and I'm going to send it to people from now on... HEAVY praise from the person i consider to be one, if not the most knowledgeable Z person i have the pleasure to associate with. thank you !!! I'll only add that IMHO the PT is the spiritual successor to the 240-Z. WHAT??? agreed ! right car at the right time in the right place. landed with a splash that inspired a love of cars again. what the public was hungry for. inspired ford to restyle the mustang, gm's pending reintroduction of the camaro, chrysler to build the challenger, nissan to climb on the history of the 240z and toss the 350 into the ring. without the pt and the new vw bug, none of those cars would be here. back on point, the 280z is a fine car. thing is, is just inches away from being a 240z. a person that isn't happy in a 240z is not gonna be any happier in a 280z. this is why i'd recommend the 280zx over the 280z. has creature comforts not offered in the 240z or the 280z. as Carl suggests, the 510 may be a better choice for a guy moving from a pt as it is has a back seat, and a trunk. the 1600 cc engine is almost bullet proof. has fully independent rear suspension. the 5 and dime website offers plenty of support. they are fun to drive and offer more every day use than the 240z. my son wanted one, we looked at a few. oddly enough, here in the bay area ( san jose, frisco ) the 510's go for more than the 240z cars do. possibly because they are more user friendly. can haul more stuff, including friends and family in em and they blend in with traffic. for my son, to buy him a 510 as nice as the '95 2 door civic, i would have to had spent another 1500 dollars and it would not be anywhere as reliable as the "bolt the hood shut" honda. no matter what you decide, try and find one that is as close to stock as possible. the wiring harness has not been chopped up, idiots have not added their personal touches using bailing wire and adapted parts from a honda or a volvo to keep the hood closed. you will spend a small fortune correcting these "custom" touches. oh the 510's are worse than the 240z when it comes to the doors staying closed. a whole lot worse !!! fortunately the latches for rear doors on the 4 door are the same as the front or the 2 doors, you can swap em. you know Carl, you just put a bug up my backside to get a 510. AND i know 99% of the evils a 510 comes with !!! why do you do these things to me ???

the 240z is basically a tin can on wheels compared to your pt cruiser. no power steering, rides and steers like an old truck. noisy on the highway, rattles on the street. you will find that until you drop the tail lights replace the seals, replace the lift gate seals ( on the lift itself and the body ) replace the seals around the side marker lights, that everytime you drive with the windows down, exhaust gas is gonna come in the cabin. the hoses for the charcoal cansister and gas fume recover system are most likely gonna need to be replaced. you will get wiffs of raw gas and wonder where it's coming from. as a pt cruiser driver, you are unfamilar with a choke and carbs along with a low voltage ignition system. on a cold morning, you can not hop in a 240z turn the key and expect to jump on it to get into traffic. it needs to be warmed up a bit, the choke set. the wipers and heater do not work as well as your pt cruiser. if you drive for any distance with the high beams on, most likely a fuse is gonna blow. there are often wiring issues under the dash and melted fuse boxes. for what ever reason the nissan engineers ( datsun ) decided to cheap out and ran all the car's electrics through the amp meter. they used a rivetted fuse holder. resistance at the fuse box causes the wiring to over heat. being as they were trying to keep the car light and cheap, little attention was paid to rust proofing. they also used a flap as a seal over the front of the area of the doors where they close under the fenders. when that flap dries out, water runs into the cabin. that water causes the floors to rust out. drain holes plug on the bottoms of the front fenders, they rust out below the 240z script. water and dirt get into the rocker panels below the doors, the rocker panels rust. some how water gets into the dog leg area of rear fenders directly behind the doors. rust there as well. where the lift gate meets the flat panel of the body where the latch is located, that flat panel rusts. datsun/nissan had a tray with a drain hose that went under the battery. most back yard mechanics tossed that tray and set the battery directly on the shelf. acid from battery ate holes in the shelf as well as the firewall below it ( sometimes even melted the wiring harness running on the frame rails ) speaking of frame rails, they are another place to look for rust. california cars are not exempt from these rust problems. they just take longer to show up here. brakes on the 240z are no where as good as the brakes on your pt cruiser. brakes on my 86 nissan pick up are better than the brakes on the 240z. headlights dim when you turn the heater fan on. if previous owners were door slammers , you may find the doors pop open as the metal latches on the body need to be replaced as well as the white plastic guides that line the doors up to the latches. car will wander if the bushings on the rack and pinion steering system are worn or loose. the wipers and blinkers won't work if the contacts in the switch stalks are worn out. most of the ignition locks are worn out and just about any 2 sided key will turn the lock, or the lock won't turn at all and the anti theft bolt won't move to release the steering. rear brake wheel cylinders are getting harder and harder to get and if someone hosed up the install, the rear brake shoes will drag on the drums. some times locking up the rear brakes. the heater valve is in a poor location, if the coolant isn't every couple years, acid builds up and eats through the valve, causing coolant to leak into the cabin. oh back to door slammers, the guide and the window regulator may get knocked off the rack and the plastic roller inside the door that braces the window may get bent or broken. door glass rolls up or down crooked or is difficult to roll up or down. in the front, below the windshield is a cowl cover plate with slotted vents. the factory had customer complaints of rattles. the fix was to put a cushion between the body and the cowl cover. another bad idea. cushions tend to stay wet, rust forms and bubbles up from the back side to the top under the paint. when fools don't change the coolant, crap tends to collect in the adapter for the lower radiator hose at the block. this limits the flow of coolant through the radiator. lots of over heating issues can be attributed to this. this often leads to seepage between the head gasket between the block and head near the number 6 cylinder. if things get worse, a blown head gasket, same location. other factors also contribute to blown head gaskets. most often is carbs set too lean combined with a heavy footed driver using low grade gas. what do you think ? sounds as if i don't care for the 240z ??? far from being correct. i have owned 5 of em. currently have two 1972 240z cars in my driveway, one is the famous "Bambi Killer". i love the 240z. i have busted my knuckles, shredded skin, cracked my head, burned myself working on 240z cars. my 19 yr old son has caught the bug from me. if i were to sell my 240z cars, i know i would buy another one. once they get under your skin, is just the way it is. but, i am no fool. i know what i am getting. know the ugly side hidden in the beauty of the 240z. you say you know nothing about cars. i want you to know what you are getting into if you buy a 240z. i don't want you biting off more than you can chew if you buy a lesser 240z. a cheap 240z is not a cheap 240z. it will need lots of repairs. i have tried to point out the most obvious problems. if you have limited skills and no money, the cheap 240z will break your heart. because no matter how much of a beater your 240z may be, you will fall in love with it. you will forgive it faults and dump tons of money into it to prove it. f you are looking for a car that is gonna leave a smile on your face everytime you drive it or just back it out the driveway and park it on the street, the 240z is the ticket for that . in the los angeles area, figure on spending around 5 grand for a decent driver. find a club member in your area that for the cost of a combo meal at jack in the box that will be willing to go with you to check out a 240z that you are interested in. don't get sucked in by shiny paint. shiny paint hides a lot of evil. remember every 240z is at least 35 yrs old. it will need maintenance. things that haven't been replaced by previous owners are on the edge of needing to be replaced. the little tang on the exterior door handle is just waiting to break off at the worst time and the door won't open. do you have a friend that is good with a wrench ?? a place to work on the z ? if you don't and don't have 5 grand for a decent 240z, i might be thinking of the 280zx, it is not the thrill a 240z will give you, but it is a more modern car. more what you'd be used to driving the pt crusier. and still has the basic lines of the 240z. you will spend less for a nicer 280zx than you will for a 240z. they all suck for gas mileage. especially a 280zx with an automatic. expect around 16 to 17 around town in 240z with 4 speed. around 22 to 24 at constant 65 mph. back in 81, my 79 280zx GS with 5 spd got 13 to 17 around town, 28 on the freeway. swap a 5 speed into the 240z and expect around the same mpg city and 24 to 26 or so on the freeway. i am in san jose, still see lots of 240z's used as daily drivers. i see on avg 3 to 4 a day being driven in commuter traffic. i am sure is the same in fullerton. check local craigslist, get a trusted car friend to go check it out with you ( or a club member ). take the list of faults i wrote above with you. tell you what, if you have at least the 5 grand. buy a 240z, drive it for the summer, see if you like it, if not your cup of tea ... has no power windows, no airconditioning, thin seats, suspension is tuned for the car guys of the early 70's late 60's. if it didn't add to performance it had no place on a car guy's car. federal safety standards and tightening emission standards began to tame the 240z. to increase sells datsun/nissan started building to non car guys. building for the gold chain wearing disco dancing crowd. progression, the 280z, the 280zx and the flattened 300zx. in 1990 they got it right again with the car guys by revamping the 300zx. although they look like a cross between a fiero and a saturn, get behind the wheel and you will know what i mean about it being a car guy's car. that said, none of the other z series cars have the heart and soul of a 240z. the 240z is the only true datsun/nissan z car. for your own soul, maybe buy a 240z, buy a nice one. drive it for the summer. if you find you miss all the good stuff that goes with a modern car and like the lines of the 240z, then sell the 240 and buy a 280zx. it still sort of looks like a 240z and is a modern car with creature comforts. again, don't buy a 240z beater fixer upper or one in need of small repairs ( no such thing ), it will break your heart. this may not be the advice you were looking for. but is as honest as i can be with you. my son's 1st daily driver was a 1990 300zx. he wanted a 240z. he wasn't ready for a 240z. right now he's in a '95 honda civic. he could not afford the gas for the 300zx and needed a back seat. he doesn't turn his own wrenches ( has the talent but not his thing ). unless i get in a financial bind, he will end up with The Bambi Killer. but right now, is not the right car for him. occasionally he drives the Bambi Killer and he smiles from ear to ear everytime. as much as he loves that car, he understands as a daily driver, he's better off in the civic. these are things you need to consider. no one can make up your mind for you. your money, spend it anyway you want. the 240z is a machine. an old machine. remember this and go in with eyes open, see all the faults, search for them and the don't let your emotions lead you into buying a junker just because it is a 240z. wayne

if you are running wide tires and car is gonna rub the tires you will need to cut the inners and possibly the fenders. but, for most people the factory ZG flares are decorative. just mount em and enjoy the look. you want a particular look for your car go for it. later if you want to return to the plain jane cookie cutter look, remove the flares, weld the holes, little body work and there you are. again, it's your car. enjoy it.

unless your engine is coked up with carbon, you can run the lower octane fuel. the 73 was designed to run on the lower octane unleaded. i want to say the 71 and up are all designed to run on the lower octane unleaded. now, i like the castrol 20/50. though with the newer oils for older engines i am looking into that. lot's of talk and articles in hot rod, popular hot rodding, ect. about how the newer oils have less zinc and such, thus less protection for lifters and bearings in the older engines. they are recommending royal purple or using oils with a diesel rating. have more protectants.

unless your engine is coked up with carbon, you can run the lower octane fuel. the 73 was designed to run on the lower octane unleaded. i want to say the 71 and up are all designed to run on the lower octane unleaded. now, i like the castrol 20/50. though with the newer oils for older engines i am looking into that. lot's of talk and articles in hot rod, popular hot rodding, ect. about how the newer oils have less zinc and such, thus less protection for lifters and bearings in the older engines. they are recommending royal purple or using oils with a diesel rating. have more protectants.

damn impressive ! made me drool ! same color i had wanted to paint my scarab before the body shop went belly up and i was lucky to get my z back. interior is a perfect update. gives me some ideas. how much work were you able to do yourself and what did you have to farm out. i am guessing, like most of us, you did what you could and reluctantly paid or traded for the rest. knowing what you did yourself, might encourage me to at least give it a try myself before paying someone. again DAMN !!!!

i have done that. however i had stock metal wheels at the time. with arse end in the air, drums off, i slid the wheels and tire back in place. when it bottomed on the flange i took a flash light, looked up in there and turned the wheel, checking for clearance. nothing was touching the brake shoes, wheels cleared the backing plates. ran the lug nuts tight, jacked car up, removed jack stands, lowered the arse end. tightened the lug nuts just a hair. tied a string around the brake pedal to the steering wheel to remind myself NOT to press the brake pedal. will hyper extend the rear brake cylinders. may cause em to leak. i have also done this with the konig wheels and the cap style lug nuts. moved wheel from side to side, didn't move. figured was okay. as was suggested, car ain't going anywhere, doesn't have to be torqued down. as others have said, grab some fender washers and stack em. with the konig rewinds i didn't need em.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wheel_fitment.shtml

from another website : basic test. To check the booster, pump the brake pedal with the engine off until you’ve bled off all the vacuum from the unit (the pedal will feel firmer and you won’t hear any sounds from the booster). Then hold the pedal down and start the engine. You should feel the pedal depress slightly as engine vacuum enters the booster and pulls on the diaphragm. If there’s no change, the vacuum hose to the booster may be loose or blocked. If the vacuum hose is okay, the problem is in the booster and the booster needs to be replaced. If your brake booster has failed, your brakes will still work but will require increased pedal effort. The pedal will feel much harder and will take a lot more pressure to stop the vehicle. Driving with a bad booster can be dangerous because the vehicle may not be able to stop as quickly or in as short a distance. So don’t delay. Have the problem diagnosed and repaired as soon as possible.

the 240z was built to bring car guys that couldn't afford a porsche or corvette into the datsun dealership. the sizzle had steak. car guys got a bargain, a true GT, that would out run a porsche. properly equipped from the factory,comfortable bucket seats, 4 speed with leather shifter boot, big tach, 160 mph speedo, full array of gauges all tilted at the driver. am/fm stereo with power antenna. full front and rear independent suspension. disc brakes on the front. large drums on the rear. inline 6, with exotic dual carbs. fit and finish to rival cars costing 3 times as much. the XKE comes to mind. remember this was 1969/1970, japanese cars were still being smirked at. the 240z shook loose of the japanese car stigma. it only took a year or so for the 240z to be accepted by the european sports car drivers . a true sports car without the european price. the 240z broke new ground. the 350z is meant to appeal to one that would nomally buy an eclipse or ford focus but had enough money to step up to a more expensive cookie cutter look alike car. the 350z accomplishes this quite well. as stated earlier, the 240Z was intended to appeal to the vette and porsche driver. the 240Z accomplished this very, very well. i think this is the major difference between the 350z and the 240z. 240z = Grand Touring Car ! 350z = sports tuned people mover ! wayne

use masking tape. put it around the edges of the fenders. this will help to avoid scratching your paint. the cowling as you suggested has screws just below the hood. remove, out in sandwich baggie so you have em. remove the wiper assembly. put the nuts back on the shafts ( again so don't get misplaced ). the cowl cover is held in place in the rear by tabs into slots. lift from the engine side, slowly. if car has been repainted, expect paint to be gluing it down a bit. also watch for any paint that might tear. if paint is tearing use a razor or sharp knife to cut paint so doen't tear and peel. under the windshield side there are rubber supports in the holes that the tabs slide into, watch for those. they usually stay in the slots but sometimes come out with the cover. don't lose them. slide the cowl towards engine and upward, just enough to clear the ridge on the engine side. cover is off. now would be a good time to remove that foam from the underside, rust proof the metal and replace the padding. also grab a vac cleaner and get any leaves or squirrels that might be under the cover cleaned out of there. when you put it back in, make sure to use something ( tape ) to protect the fenders and such from scratches. good luck. wayne

gotcha ! thanks ! getting late in Ga. good night

so, get a test fitting with the body kit parts. remove the kit parts. run the wax paper. temp remount the kit parts. run a line on the wax paper marking the top of the kit part. remove the kit part. sand the parts where they meet the body, so that they will absorb and stick to the glass strips. lay the strips of glass soaked wit resin and catalyst on the wax paper, estimating the thickness of the space between the kit part and the car's body. while the strips are still sticky, temp remount the body kit part back on the car. compressing the kit into the strips of fiber glass. this will create a flange for the body kit and fill the spaces between the kit and the body. is this correct ? if not, please correct me step by step. much appreciate your help ! want to make sure i get this right . by the by, do you know Dave Mc Kenzie, buford ga. ?

hmmm, maybe i am seeing this all wrong. are you suggesting that one lays up the strips of glass on the body and while the fiberglass is still wet attach the kit parts and let it dry for a few days. seems like it would be hard to get the kit parts mounted without knocking the strips of glass loose. or let the laid up strips dry for a few days ? then sanding them to match the body kit ? something here i'm not visualizing.

thanks for info. this was posted at hybridz.org i am not 100 percent sure i follow it. seems to me, be easier to build up and grind on the part being installed. the poster suggests one can build a flange by using the car's body as the guide. sand the flange you made on the body to match the body kit. i am tempted to try this. ANOTHER question : i'm gonna finish the body work on my 72. primer and paint the car. now, do i primer and paint the kit off the car or primer and paint the car with the kit on it. stock z color, med blue. i think it has a light metallic in it. ou are SO right Mike, but that is because 99% of all manufactures are using Poylester and Vinylester resins to build their molds and parts with instead of the more stable and expensive Epoxy resin . I ONLY build with Epoxy due to its stable non-warping, non-degrading state. It does cost a great deal more up front,but the end results are obvious and lasting. As far as the kit fitments on the MSA parts,I've got one of the full kits here and took a good look at it.Its a standard thats common.It has NO "face to body flange" . Meaning there isn't a flange that contacts the metal of the car,only a stabbing unfinished edge of glass rubbing the paint on the car ! (EDIT): however,the other MSA kit here, does have an ill fitting partial flange ! It STILL would require modification as stated above to make right ! Here's a way to get a perfect fit for you guys (providing your shop of choice or YOU,are willing to do it). ..........With bumpers off......cut a strip of wax paper long enough to wrap clear across the area where the part will make contact to the body. Tape this in place.Place the part into its final resting place for fitment and use a permanaent marker to give the top outline onto the wax paper.Remove the part. Now use some fiberglass strips wetted out with resin, and place them ON the line (wax paper line) going just about a quarter of an inch over the line and the ends of where the part ends.Let the first layer GEL,then repeat with more strips. Three builds with cloth and mat should suffice for this step. NOW....once the strips of glass has dried,(no longer tacky) Take a 36 grit sander and somewhat smooth out the texture of the glass so there are NO high spots. Reposition your body part...and attatch your newly made flange to your body part(with more glass mat/cloth and resin )that now has a " Body matched" fitment ! Of course all finishing stages are neccasary before final paint. Now,I gotta get back to work !.................Vinny __________________ 70 240Z - Widebody RB26DETT AWD Carbon Fiber body 68 2000 - Roadster,V6 turbo,steel flares 73 240Z - 3.0,T3/T04E,Tial 40mm,Wolf-3D,Veilside17x9.5 74 260Z - T4/T3,44 Solex,C/F airbox,ZG's,G-nose,Scarab wing Last edited by Vintage-TechZ : 01-10-2005 at 07:56 PM. Vintage-TechZ View Public Profile Send a private message to Vintage-TechZ Send email to Vintage-TechZ Find More Posts by Vintage-TechZ Add Vintage-TechZ to Your Buddy List 01-08-2005 #15 blueovalz Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Little Rock, AR, usa Posts: 2,505 Good post Vinny! I would like to inject a tip into the above idea, of which is an excellent idea of provide a "fitted" part (and one I've used many times). My experience with this lends me to use 2" masking tape applied carefully over the body (with minimal overlap between strips of tape) that you want covered in glass. Fiberglass does not bond well with masking tape and will provide an almost perfect match, especially in areas where compount curves or ridges exist. I have used was paper, as well as other "film" mediums and found that they sometimes will not follow changes in the body's shape (unless the part is very flat or has a single dimension curve). __________________ Terry BlueOvalZ photo documentation Last edited by blueovalz : 01-08-2005 at 12:16 PM. blueovalz View Public Profile Send a private message to blueovalz Send email to blueovalz Visit blueovalz's homepage! Find More Posts by blueovalz Add blueovalz to Your Buddy List 01-10-2005 #16 DeusEx Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 104 So has everyone who has ordered an MSA kit had these troubles with Gaps? __________________ Im RITCH BEEATCH! HONK! HONK! DeusEx View Public Profile Send a private message to DeusEx Send email to DeusEx Find More Posts by DeusEx Add DeusEx to Your Buddy List 01-11-2005 #17 PBooty Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 83 thanks for all the input guys... one thing though.. the body shop guy suggested that it wouldn't be a good idea to bondo the kit to the body. I would look nicer, but having a one piece body would prove to be costly if repairs were necessary. I suggested that he used body filler to extend that matting edge of the bumpers to eliminate the gaps. This way the bumper and the body would remain separated. Is my suggestion applicable? Will it work? __________________ Late '77 280z PBooty View Public Profile Send a private message to PBooty Find More Posts by PBooty Add PBooty to Your Buddy List 01-11-2005 #18 Vintage-TechZ Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Springfield Missouri & Sacramento Posts: 217 My suggestion is to NEVER graft/bond full body kits to a unibody car. Even welding steel to steel for a "smoothy" look can cost you a second ,third or even bi-annual paint job unless the the car never leaves a climate controlled level floor ! In fact, one of my best friends is suffering the fate of this as we speak,and opted to simply sell the car at a loss in order to avoid the expense of redo/repair. And he's admitted to me he feels like a FOOL for not listening to me. The sad fact is it WAS a beautiful Z ! Cracking all to hell now. Go back and re-read my instructions again for the body kit parts FLANGES ! It describes quickly how to eliminate your gaps and have a PRO fit ...EVERYWHERE on your fiberglass parts ! No permanent BONDING other than your choice of hidden fasteners (totally removable/repaintable ). Always sweat the BODYWORK and epoxy primer ! MAke those perfect and the painter will follow ! If he's worth his SALT . But alas......this IS why I do alll of the work on my Z's myself. No guessing about others capability and BS ability. Learning curves burn on both ends...choose. Vinny __________________

clever idea, pouring the water down the cowl vent. would not have thought of that. been toying with idea of buying 64 thru 68 mustang for my son. i think i will be bringing a gallon of water with me, should i go look at one.

have the same kit. the under the door moldings are twisted laterally. when the rear fits, the front is about an 1/2 an inch from the front fender. the driver's side is worse than the passenger side, almost an inch difference. wonder if the molds are that poor or the glass shrinks when it dries. could you share your secrets ? i was considering cutting a stress relief, twisting the moldings and reglassing the cuts. how did you hang the front dam ? thanks, wayne

the 64 through 68 mustang has the same problem. been told the 69 as well. at least we can remove the vent plate under the windshield. on the mustang it's spot welded in place. the cowl of the mustang isn't primered nor painted. junk gets trapped in there and they rust worse than the z does. at least on the z, most of the junk flows down and rust out the bottom of the front fenders. with the mustang, it gets trapped on top the cowl and rots the cowl and firewall. so, it's not just japanese cars. seems to be common practice among the industry at the time. Mr E's solution is a brain storm idea. front wings on my z are rust protected, primered and painted. have the elbow in place and hoses on both sides of the car. insides of the fenders are rust protected, primered and painted as well. as was suggested, might be a good idea if you are prepping for paint, pull the front fenders, rust proof under there and use E Scalon's drainage system.

san fransisco bay area craigslist. some one in navoto keeps posting fiber glass flares 200 for complete set, front rear. access craigslist. on right side find frisco, click on that, will bring up ads from bay area. post an ad on craigslist in the for sale section that you are looking for 240z flares. request that the guy novato contact you. i haven't seen em lately. he posted em about 6 times. i don't think he sold em.