DoctorMuffn

I pulled apart my oldest E12-80 ignition module and took some pictures. I have no idea what any of it does; but for those who may know and may be interested this is what the inside of a $150 dollar module looks like. At least that's what I paid for the Wells replacement from Autozone. E12-80 ignition module internals

That's intense, Don! Let me know what you find out when you hook up the scope.

I considered that possible heat sinking issue, but you give good reasoning why it shouldn't be. What occurred to me though was a total electrical system issue starting with the alternator and it's external regulator. I'm still using my old 240 alt and reg and I was postulating that if the voltage spiked considerably more from that alternator than it would from a 280ZX alternator that could cause issues. Alas, I don't have a scope to really assess these things for sure... Were you running an externally regulated alternator with your swap? And boy does that ever shock one's psyche when the cutout leaves them stranded while crossing oncoming traffic or slowing out of nowhere with rapid unaware traffic rushing up from behind... SCARY! It's not how a car should run. And my remmanned from Autozone felt pretty solid. I pulled it partially apart when I got it to check the vacuum advance (which was fine) and ultimately re-centered the inductor because it was contacting the pick-up ever so slightly. It's a process... Let me know what you think about the above, Don.

And I think my module(s) is(are) going(dying)... My E12-80 module which came with the distributor: Generated a rough idle on occasion but would accelerate through and through. However, the rough idle turned into intermittent shut-offs of the engine forcing me to start it again. Then these shut-offs started happening while driving at speed with violent shocks to the drivetrain upon restart. I replaced it with the module sourced from the yard when it was shutting off at idle every other light as well as cutting the engine off while driving at speed for long, dangerous periods. Replacement E12-80 sourced from yard: Generated a rough idle a couple days after installation. It doesn't cut the engine while idling yet, but it occasionally doesn't rev out freely. It is beginning to feel like my old pertronix in that it cuts sputters while holding steady throttle at cruising speeds. All problems are intermittent. Frustrating!

I have an old spark plug which a friend securely welded a metal extension to. I placed this contraption into the number one spark plug hole then (with all other plugs out) carefully, CAREFULLY brought the crank around with a ratchet on the front pulley bolt (clockwise) bringing the piston up to contact the extension on the old spark plug. I marked the pulley where the pointer was indicating once I made soft, SOFT contact. Then I turned the crank around the other way (counter clockwise) until I made soft contact again. I believe turning it this way is not an entirely appropriate thing to do, but timing is important and I was careful. When I made soft contact again on my make-shift piston-stop I marked the pulley again where by the pointer. Upon taking into consideration any play in the mechanical timing set I then divided the short distance between my marks made on the pulley in half and determined TDC to lie at that point. Fortunately it matched my timing marks on my crank pulley and pointer on my front cover. Without a tool, but assuming you had a mechanically well-timed engine before you replaced the dizzy I would just use a flashlight to peer into the spark plug hole of number one to determine TDC. Having the valve cover off to ensure no valves are lifted would indicate TDC between the compression and power strokes. The intermediate shaft between your oil pump and dizzy is worth checking as well. TDC reflected in that shaft should look like the first picture in post number 21. It's position is roughly 11:25 with the smaller bow shape towards the front (according to my '73 240Z manual). All the rest should follow - the dizzy placement, the cap and rotor placement, the spark plug wires. You just joined so I'd recommend utilizing the search function to peruse different topics to isolate posts regarding your issue. There is so much information on this site to be gleaned. Enjoy, and welcome.

Done and done!!! Here's a pic of the plate I got from a yard. You can see the 240 setup on the left compared to the 280 setup on the right. And after installing it I set base timing with the vacuum advance disconnected to between 10 and 15 deg BTDC. If I had to guess it's roughly 11 deg. I also checked the dwell for shits and giggles and found it to be base-lined upon start-up at around 24-26 deg. When I get into the throttle I see the dwell rise to a peak of 39 deg. My car runs amazingly well so far! She has no hesitation, ceilings, or misfiring all the way to 7k rpm, but a shift feels appropriate around 6.5k (maybe that's due to the larger displacement of my L28 as opposed to an L24). I also picked up an old E12-80 module off of the same 280ZX which donated the plate for about $25. I remember reading a few stories about failures so I figured why not have an extra one. So far so good, and no more variable ignition timing. Thanks to all

Finally here is the "rigging" I did to make it work temporarily. The first picture (014) shows the OLD pedestal mounted below the dizzy and a blue zip-tie routed through a "lucky" hole on the dizzy body. The locking end of the zip-tie serves as a stop to provide "resistance" to the dizzy rotating any further counter-clockwise (when viewed from above) which would retard the timing. Notice the extension of the dizzy body with all of the letters on it. This is the bracket where I would fasten the appropriate timing plate to the dizzy. That plate is then fastened with another bolt to the appropriate pedestal almost exactly opposite (roughly 150deg away). The appropriate plate is shown in the final picture. The second picture (013) shows the OLD pedestal again mounted below the dizzy and a yellow zip-tie routed through another "lucky hole" and it serves two purposes. It simultaneously prevents rotation of the dizzy clockwise (when viewed from above) which would advance timing, and it holds the distributor down into the pedestal. This zip tie can be seen in pic (014). And the mounting tab on the dizzy body is seen in (013) just to the right of the yellow zip-tie. Note that this is a very temporary arrangement and I am presently seeking the appropriate plate. I presently have variable spark timing and it's nothing I'd advise for anyone else. I'll post pics when I locate and install the appropriate timing plate. And many thanks to Joseph R Demers (http://www.jrdemers.com/280ZX/distributor/distributor.html) and many others who frequent this forum and share their knowledge. My Z runs very well now and no longer hesitates or caps my revs; albeit true I haven't really stepped into her because zip-ties just don't inspire confidence. And the electrical hook-up was sound for my install; I followed Mr. Demers DIY. The red wire comes from a 12-volt switched source on the appropriate side of the ballast resistor (do not include ballast resistance in series in this circuit) and attaches to terminal B on the module (B might stand for Battery; at least it does in my mind). The blue wire goes from C on the module (perhaps Contacts) and connects to the negative side of the coil. I still have complete function in my tachometer. Thanks again. See you all soon.

So here is the receiver for the dizzy on the front cover indicating the engine is at TDC between compression and power for cyl 1. The next picture shows roughly the proper orientation of the 280ZX dizzy when installed with the secondary ignition rotor pointing toward the radiator. The next picture also shows the outlet from the cap for the number one cylinder high tension wire and its index mark. The next pictures show the cap on as well of a close-up of the cap showing another index mark identifying the first cylinder's high tension wire outlet. The engineers really made this easy for me and I still managed to boggle myself. Thank goodness I couldn't change the phasing of the reluctor wheel for the primary ignition circuit and the dizzy shaft (hence dizzy rotor) or I really would have messed this stuff up for myself.

In these pictures we can see the 4 components I own now that I've received the pedestal or base for the 280ZX distributor. From left to right in picture 001 we have the dry timing plate for the 240Z distributor (I believe that's what it is but my engine bay is completely Frankensteined and I can't be sure unless I've done it myself). Nevertheless it was the plate between my old pedestal and old distributor. The pedestal to the right of that plate is the old 240Z pedestal (I guess). The one to the right of that is the new 1980 280ZX pedestal which Jack at Irvine Nissan helped me special order; good guy. And finally you can see the 280ZX distributor (PN 22100-P8102 I believe) which I picked up rebuilt from Autozone for $104.99 and a core fee of $38.00. I ordered the ignition module for an extra $135.99 because I was told the dizzy wouldn't come with it, but low and behold it did at which point I returned the module. That's odd... The dizzy is less than the module; but if we factor in the core fee whereupon I don't have a core to return and compare prices the remanned dizzy is only worth $7.00 when I take away the new module cost of $135.99 from $142.99. But I digress... And don't tell Autozone. The remaining pictures are close-ups of the two pedestals placed as parallel as eye-engineering will allow for comparison sake. And the timing plate superimposed on both pedestals to show its incompatibility with the new 280ZX pedestal I have.

If someone wants to tell me how to post pics I'd be happy to show the progress. Thanks in advance. Nevermind... I figured it out. It's "attachments" not "insert picture."

I'm not entirely ignorant on the matter, and I'm well aware of the risk I took in gauging the social response. But I do apologize if I offended anyone, as that was not my intention. And now I better recognize the limits imposed by this board and the consequences to follow when I push those limits. As I said before I intend to include pictures, and I'd like to refocus the thread on the upgrade performed. It was a cinch and a pleasure to do, and I did ultimately make good use of the others' comments and redirects to threads entailing the research they've done. And regardless of the outcomes I greatly appreciate CZCC and its membership for all of the help it has offered to date while I tinker with my little car. Regards, Sean Molle Lake Forest, CA

Okay I pulled the trigger and picked up a 1979-'80 280ZX dizzy (which fortunately came with the E12-80 module saving me some cash). So far I've white-trashed the install. The wiring is clean: A blue jumper with spade and eye-lit connecting the negative side of the coil to the C terminal on the module and a red jumper with like hardware from 12-Volt switched side of ballast to B terminal on the module; simple. http://www.jrdemers.com/280ZX/distributor/distributor.html However, without a pedestal I went ahead and zip-tied the distributor in place temporarily to the old pedestal so it keeps somewhat consistant timing and doesn't pop out; nigga-rigged I know. The pedestal is ordered and hopefully on it's way from Memphis to the dealer here in Irvine, CA. Oh my tach works!!! And the intermittent hesitation I was having which prompted this very recent endeavor is gone... For now anyway. Thanks again to all. I'll post pix.

See akorna's post made on the 22nd in the following thread. I'm gonna see if I can manipulate dwell on my ignitor following his measurements. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37452

For those of you running the ignitor what are you getting for a dwell measurement?

Hmmm... That's odd. I think I played with moving the pickup closer and further away from the rotor with no significant change. I'll probably start a new thread to get more responses. Thanks, akorna, and sorry if I hi-jacked a bit.

AWESOME!!! That was an incredible thread of just straight forward swaps and how-to's, BTF/PTM. I'll definitely be looking into that quite a bit more for many of the change overs. And thanks, Walter Moore. Before I decide between the 280ZX and buying another Pertronix I'll be looking at your curve data and comparing it to that of the dizzy I'm currently running. Ultimately I just want a reliable runner that I can drive hard on occasion until I swap in the Lexus 1UZ-FE. This is way down the road, but it will happen. It's been my "5 years from now" plan since I blue-printed and rebuilt my 4.0 liter Lex engine in class 3 years ago. It's still my 5 year plan, but the more I learn the closer I feel I'm getting... I even have a decent 220V Harbor Freight welder now. I still have to learn how to use it, but that's the easy part from what I hear. :stupid: So now I'm waiting to hear what dwells Pertronix users get from their ignitors. This way I might be able to see if I just got a shitty ignitor from the factory or if they all run about half as much dwell as factory specs call for. Apparently I'm not the only one on this forum who's experienced the 4k rpm ceiling dilemma. Oh, and by the way, I'm running a Frankenstein L28 F54 with an N47 head fed with 4 screw round-tops and all smog equipment blocked, removed, or rendered ineffective.

That was QUICK!!! Thanks so much for all of the responses. I'll be doing some research soon. And when I decide what to do I'll use this thread to keep everyone posted (everyone who's interested that is).

I'm considering buying a 1980 ZX remanned dizzy and new module (Duralast brand) from Autozone here in SoCal. Together they should run me a little over $300 and both units have lifetime warranty. I'm putting it into my '73 240Z. I did a bit of research last night, and of course I'll do more, but if anyone wants to share their thoughts or even point me to the right thread by posting a link I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking about replacing the Pertronix Ignitor because the low dwell doesn't sit right with me.

Yeah, Arne, last night I read your post in one of the older threads from last year I think. Check your dwell and let me know what you find. I'm debating purchasing a remanned dizzy and new module (duralast brand) from autozone for a collective ~$325 to be done with this, but that's for another thread. Sorry to hi-jack, akorna. So what dwell does everyone else get with their pertronix ignitor?

Just a comment open for feedback... Several years back when I installed an ignitor into my distributor I didn't gap the rotor in relation to the pickup. In other words I just tightened down the two tapered philips screws into their countersunk holes. I mention that because I had a driveability problem upon installation: My revs were limited to 4k rpm. I checked dwell and found it to be 59deg at first. "What an efficient system," I told myself. "The magnets and the pickup are so precise they only shut the coil off for 1 degree to allow spark and then immediately turn it back on to really soak up the juice." The lead for my meter must have been poorly connected, because when I rechecked I found the dwell to be only 21 deg (much lower than Datsun's spec of 35-41 for my '73 manual trans S30). I put in my old rotor and found a similar dwell; this was the second ignitor I had purchased (the first one I screwed up the tape with a feeler gauge). Anyway... I tried several things including reinstalling the points, using the old pickup with the new rotor, the new pickup with the old rotor, bypassing the ballast resistor, etc. Ultimately, I sent in my dizzy with new ignitor/rotor installed to have the folks at Pertronix up the dwell. They brought it up to 27-29ish at which point it would rev out. I tell the story not to have my problem diagnosed but because I'm curious what dwell your ignitors are coming out of the box with. Oh... And I just had an interesting breakdown today after a long hot day and a car meet/cruise. I won't go on with that story, but I will ask what the expected longevity of these ignitors is? And what if I'm bypassing the ballast? I suspect the primary (or maybe even secondary ignition) circuit for three reasons: -The cut-out that resulted in temporary stranding to the side of the road was at 2k rpm and it was a complete ceiling on the engine's revolutions. In other words it was a clean and complete cut-out -I have been going over my carbs for the last two weeks setting the float levels, balancing, and fine-tuning the nozzles which I finally nailed early this morning due to an epiphany I had last night (reading the directions in an SU carb rebuild kit helped). -Finally, the problem went away (intermittency) and I drove 25 miles home varying the engine speed from idle to 4k rpm (cruise on the frwy was 3.5k, 70-75mph). Any thoughts?

Doesn't that depend on the turbo?

How in the hell are you getting 24 mpg out of your L6 Z? Oh and as for the swap issue I'd recommend (that is if you insist on an economical nissan 4 cyclinder swap) that you look at the KA24s that everyone is throwing away for the SR20. If you buy the same crossmembers that allow the SR20 swap they should fit the KA24DE swap with the KAs being extremely cheap initial investments. And then later when you want a little more umphh, being out of college and you your own moneyman, you can tack on a turbo and have a Z that'll smoke SR20 Zs all day. I'm sure it's more complicated than all that to a degree, but those KAs are very very cheap. And I can't wait until I have another car as a daily driver so that I can really pull apart and rebuild my Z. Until then I'm a semi serious daily driver Z man.

Whoa! There is a lot of media and toolery on Eastwoodco.com. Time to start saving for the knowledge.

Great! Thanks for the encouragement. What kind of issues do our Zs have with lead filling?

Outstanding, thanks for the response... I guess I'll start by researching "lead wiping".