gtom

I would have said, "Great job guys, I'm good with the design, let's go to production mode. But lets build this car to last 50 years or more and still stay within budget." I'm sure this would've caused some headaches...

Flashback to the mid 1960's. You are a part of the Nissan design and development team for the new Z-car. The prototype models are nearing finalization for production. If you had the authority to make any styling or engineering changes to the final design prototype, what would they be?

Thanks for your reply, however this is a moot point. Please see my first post at the top of the thread.

Thanks for your reply. You are right about 280Zs and I have been looking at them too. However, I will not be buying an early Z-car for any kind of practical reason, so I would likely try to acquire something more collectable. In this regard, I'd say, I am in the market for a '70 to '73 Z-car. About the summary of "m-word" modifications, hopefully, it is a start in the right direction to create some awareness about destroying the market value along with the value of the original intent of the early Z-cars. As for my beliefs? I made my contribution to the list, but I want to be clear that this thread is not about me, but rather about the early Z-car. What I envision my next Z-car as will most likely differ from that of another, however, if such a 'standard' list of "m-word" modifications were to exist, I would definitely respect it if not fully adhere to it.

Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-Datsun-240Z-/160658159990?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2567f8f976#ht_500wt_1182

Summary: The top 8 early Z-car modifications considered to be "m word" as per thread (to be taken with a grain of salt, of course) 1. Non-factory original color 2. Non-factory pop-up glass sunroof 3. Chevy SB V8 engine swap 4. Racing seat swap (non race cars) 5. Blacked out engine bay 6. Cutting door panels to accommodate speakers 7. Non-factory fender flares and body kits 8. Installing incorrect parts from a different manufacturer Conclusion: Making these modifications to an early Z-car may pose risk of lowering the car's market value and, in turn, may drive up the prices of vehicles that have not made these modifications.

I know the feeling...went down the same road with my last ebay "restored rustfree" '72 BMW '02 tii...got deep into it and had to finish it. Sold it for half of what I had into it...but at least the buyer is happy. So I did my good deed and moved on. BTW, what is that sellers ebay ID?...and no problem about the threadjack,...its more relevant than throwing down about the use of words and grammar. Proves how hard it is to find a good car out there these days and why prices are still going up...even in this market...

Wow, $30K? I actually saw the auction listing at www.classicshowcase.com, but its not up on the site anymore. Ya, Mike told me it went up on the auction circuit after he sold it but he doesn't know where it is now. It was very nice. Should have bought it when I had the chance...

could be because get lazy and make careless mistakes when I am tired...

hmmm...godder?...I'd better look that one up before I write a response...oops, I already did...

Yes, so there may be a serial offender in all of us then, unless we think we are god.

Yes, you are correct...I'll assume, because I'm not to well versed in this particular type of terminology. But I did watch the anime series up to episode 13 or 14 or so on youtube before I lost interest. But a great story still!

Correct! dingdingding!!! You know your stuff man! And yes, the 'devil Z' has been "molested" because its not a factory ZG! (my avatar is a cartoon image from the actual 'Wangan Midnight' manga)

HS30-H, I am not proscribing anything and I am well aware of the Nissan Fairlady 240ZG. In fact I have a video about the ZG posted on my FB page declaring it as a birthday gift to myself. Oh, sorry, not the ZG, but the 432. So, let me make a clarification. 7. Non-factory fender flares and/or body kits. (body kits mentioned in a previous post; not mine as well as this minor issue with the fender flares) BTW, If you were to sell one of those ZGs, how much could you get for it?

8. Installing incorrect parts that belong on a different make and model.

First of all, I would like to apologize if my boring 'academic style' writing is not clear. Its seems as if many out there are interpreting my words in a misunderstood manner. And then, there are the cheerleaders. The point of this thread is not to disparage, offend, put down, ect., others, but rather to identify what may be considered to be an early z-car "molestation". Although I realized that word "molestation" may be a provocative one, it is nevertheless in abundant use, when searching through early Z-car ads. With that said, the question may bring about answers that may begin to clarify a topic that appears to be rather ambiguous. For whatever its worth, all I know is that some cars are way, way more in demand than others and are in short supply, which drives up the price...and that is what concerns me. Again, I'm sorry if I created any misunderstanding. On a lighter note: A bit of Z-car trivia. Can anybody identify my avatar image? Where does my avatar image come from? BTW, it's not my car, because I'm still searching for one.

7. Fender flares.

6. Cutting the door panels to accomodate after-market speakers.

5. Blacked-out engine bays.

Arne, I did look at your Z-car ad link. I think you did a great job and you have a very nice Z!...I will consider it. Any discount?

Thank you for this post, it brings up a very interesting point which, I think gets at the very heart of the matter. The modification of an early Z-car, whether in the past or the present can be seen as 'normative'. While many of these modifications can be justified as necessary upgrades, for example, headlight relays, electronic ignition, quality gas shocks ect., other modifications fall into a different category, which I will call, 'additive'. Among these 'additive' modifications, some have been more well received than others, but whatever the case may be, if 'additive' modifications to the early Z-car is considered normal, my next question is, is the early Z-car, the way it came out of the factory, lacking something? Performance? Looks? Character? Perceived quality? I surmise that Nissan marketing caught on to this and subsequently transformed the original Z-car into something quite different...for whatever the reason, I still don't really know why.

...ok, I'll take that. 4. Racing seat swap. - for non racing cars of course...

"Let's drop the use of "molestations" as well as the "abominations". Both of those words can be argumentative and to some offensive." Thanks for the post EScanlon. I appreciate your comment and agree that some people may find the use of specific words argumentative or even offensive, however, I my search for purchasing another early Z-car, the use of the word(s), 'molested' or 'unmolested' are far too frequently used by sellers to describe the condition of their cars for sale. Such a frequent 'use of words', in this case, may seem to imply that they have become commonplace when it comes to describing early Z-cars. In other words, many cars have been 'labeled' in this way. If this is so, I was just wondering what it is, that makes a Z-car 'molested' or 'unmolested' to hopefully provided some insight on a topic that may be in need of some clarity. If I offended anybody, I sincerely apologize. gtom

"I'm not a total purist, so grains of salt or whatever. I don't know if I'd agree with a non-factory color. There certainly are colors that are molestations, even abominations, but a classy looking paint job is a classy looking paint job and its not unreasonable to expect a repainting somewhere along the way with a forty year old car. Engine other than a L-24." I Agree, some colors are worse than others, also agree that an some engine swaps are worse choices than others. 3. Chevrolet 350 SB V-8 motor. - I think this would qualify as something other than a L-24 engine.