Gav240z

In Australia I'd order 5 240z's thanks! Context:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2024/12/09/rising-stars-cars-the-experts-say-are-up-and-coming-collectables/ "1978-1983 Datsun 280ZX ($32,800). Sold in its native Japan as the curiously-named Fairlady, the Z sports car helped establish Datsun (now Nissan) in the U.S. for its comely styling and aggressive nature. As it became more of a softer grand touring model than a flat-out sports car by the late 1970’s, purists have instead focused their bank accounts on earlier models. That helps make Zs from this model-year range a far more-affordable proposition, especially to younger collectors. Turbocharged versions are especially desirable. Though their values have risen by 138% over the last half-decade, Hagerty believes there’s still an opportunity for growth."

I've never seen that water pump either..

If I was the owner I'd keep the plates reserved under my name for possible use again later.

It would be good, but unfortunately I don't have direct access to the car. Never really did, I was able to see it in person briefly about 2 years ago. I did ask for pictures of the horn contact plate, but the photo was not clear enough and the date stamp not easy to read a date from. I agree it's probably a good reference point (with others around the car). The glove box had no markings on it fyi. Which I thought interesting. Given that my other AU market cars all had scribble on the underside of them.

I believe HS30 00060 sold for over $100,000 AUD (not sure on exact figure). I believe HS30 00004 sold for $186,000 AUD + 9.9% auction fee. So around $204,000 AUD. Both vehicles passed in at auction, but sold not long after in post auction negotiation. Considering the economy over here right now I think this a positive result overall. Especially because neither car was 'perfect'. HS30 00004 in particular will hopefully be taken further by the next owner in terms of 'restoration'. Sadly though I believe HS30 00004 will leave the state of Victoria for the first time in it's life. It's been registered here since new and now may go up to NSW/QLD - not 100% sure who the new owner is or their plans. But wish them all the best with it and hope they take good care of it.

By the way, for those following HS30 00004 auction link is: https://burnsandco.hibid.com/lot/224051982/1969-datsun-240z-build-no-4?ref=catalog High Bid: 76,250.00 AUD and at the same time HS30 00060 is up for auction too: High Bid: 51,500.00 AUD https://burnsandco.hibid.com/lot/224052091/1970-datsun-240z-build-no-60?ref=catalog

I think this is exactly the issue, the car has had work done to it over a number of years, and specifications may have been changed as a result. Keep in mind it was used as a press car and driven quite hard as a result (as would any press car). The mileage on the odometer is not a true indication of miles the car has actually done. I think knowledge of these cars has improved greatly over the years and the car was worked on in the 90s when a lot of the knowledge we have about them now thanks to the internet simply wasn't available.

Rear window is heated defrost type and was replaced at some point. It's date stamp doesn't match other components on the car. I did ask for photos of other components with date stamps on them a few months ago, under the rear view mirror, horn button contact etc.. but the photo wasn't able to pick up the fine details (particularly on the horn button). @kats has suggested other under dash markings might be useful, but I was not in a position to crawl under the car and look at those things myself. It's at the auction house and it may be possible to inspect in person. Car was given a restoration in the 90s, it's quite possible these were replaced at that point. The car was and has been repainted in it's history. Do you mean the sill cover where the carpet and door area is? It's an early style bonnet (or hood in your lingo), it's missing the reinforced brackets in the corners where the bonnet meet the inspection lids. I think in another thread I highlighted that it had the plastic inspection lid clips (earlier style). However the car may have had other reasons for some parts to be replaced.. it is 50+ years old now...

The short version of it is, that it's quite possible the car was started in 1969, but put on hold as US / North American demand for HLS30's started to ramp up. It has a mix of different date components on it (eg: engine casting date is 69) but other parts indicate Jan 70 build date. So I believe although it has 69 era parts, it's official birthday (when it got it's ok sticker for QA purposes) was probably around Jan 70. I think the car arrived in Australia in April of 1970.

Careful you'll start a serious debate. haha.

So HS30 0004 also doesn't have the power antenna, it has the blanking plate over the antenna switch. Originally I thought it had a Fairlady Z-S spec face plate, but I actually have an example of 1 of those radios. See radio at the bottom of this stack. Note it just has "TUNING" above the left hand knob. It has an antenna switch in that photo only because I removed the blanking plate and put 1 behind it. (so ignore that factor). There is a few physical differences between the Z-S radio and the regular TM-1018ZB(S) radios (with auto-seek and power antenna switch). The smaller radio is the Z-S radio (I bought it from Yahoo! Auctions Japan) - not knowing exactly what it was at the time. But back to HS30 0004 - it's appears to me at least that the car was exported to Australia before the final details of the AU Market cars had been fully settled. Much the same as what happened when the newer Z's launched here (370z) etc.., we got some low VIN # cars around the launch of the 370z which were intended to be returned to Japan and a fellow member on the Auszcar forums snapped a photo of the low VIN # car when they saw it (I can't find it now). But I believe the early cars were returned to Japan and likely destroyed thereafter. HS30 0004 was possibly intended to go back to Japan, but perhaps it never did for whatever reasons. Hence it has some subtle differences compared to other HS30's I've seen over the years. FWIW - I've never seen HS30 0005 through to HS30 00011 documented anywhere! But I know that HS30 00012 was sold into PNG Papua New Guinea (now in Australia) and HS30 00016 was in New Zealand originally (now also in Australia) and HS30 00021 was in South Africa (with a Datsun Dealer for some years). Which to me indicates these low VIN # cars were sent out as press cars to various HS30 (export RHD markets). So I am guessing those other low VIN # cars were possibly sent to other RHD markets, but since they have not yet surfaced anywhere, perhaps it's the case that they ended up back in Japan and destroyed by Nissan? Or were sold to the public but ended up in wrecking yards and crushed? And back to radios and red dots. I have about 10 early AM radios I collected over the years, 9 of them have the green dot, and 1 of them has the red dot. I recall @katsand I discussed the red dot and what it meant, but I don't think we ever came to a solid conclusion. My guess is that my red dot radio (which I got off eBay North America) was from an early 69 build 240z, but I have no way to validate that.

Speaking of "I can't believe it's not butter factory". I don't know if this has been mentioned before as an early car feature, but the door trims on HS30 00150 had screws in the bottom of them. I originally thought they were someone's attempt to fix a wonky door card, but you can see on the passenger door the 2 (either side of the door handle). But I believe they were an early S30 feature. Have you seen them on HLS30 00051?

Just seeing this thread again, after it was re-linked to. The original post has the images in PDF files which are hard to see at a glance. RE: Attached is screenshots of all 4 types. I hope @kats doesn't mind me repeating it here, but this makes it easier for me to see each type. Type 1, 432 prototype: #1 The beginning(maybe prototype) do not have a L-shape tab which is touched by the hood .Just have a rubber. See the picture of the yellow Z.I believe this Z432 is PS30-00013. You will notice there is no hood bumper, also the bracket of the master vac hose is different. #2 The second one has a L-shape tab but it is rivetted. See the picture of the blue Z,this is HLS30-00476 11/1969 #3 The third one looks same which we usualy have seen. But the L-shape tab,this separate piece is welded to the lid. See the picture of the silver Z,this is PS30-00088 01/1970 #4 The fourth one is very common for us,this one piece (L-shape tab and lid together) finish is continued to the later production. See the picture of the blue(clean) this is HLS30-02156 03/1970

Thanks Kats, I don't want to drag this thread too far off topic to be fair to the original poster building this car. However with reference to the rear glass and earlier comment, I suspect it was installed later. The car had a mini refresh in the late 90s, very early 2000s. And it's possible someone replaced the rear glass thinking it should have the vertical defrost glass. The original steel Topy's were also missing and it's now got a later set (with later date stamps) fitted to it. Which would have been another good reference point. The centre console has the blanking plate over the defogger switch (same with the parker light switches) which is more inline with AU delivered S30Z's where 240z's didn't generally have the defrost glass and we only saw it with the introduction of 260z's 74+). AU Market cars also had their seat belts replaced with an Australian brand (Kangol) - I've not seen date stamps on them. As you can see they had a latch, didn't clip and were notorious for coming undone if they were not tightened. Not very safe and a strange decision for Australian standards when they were inferior to what I've seen in other markets. You can just make out the "Approved to Australian standard". You can see they were made in St Mary's South Australia. Looks like they went bust in the 1980s. https://www.eoas.info/biogs/A001371b.htm We also never got the door jamb ID plates like North American cars, which would have been helpful for determining manufacturing date. Instead 'some' cars got compliance plates - when they arrived in Australia, which was likely 1 or 2 months after the cars were actually built in Japan. These compliance plates didn't become a requirement until the mid 70s and so many early cars in particular simply don't have 1. My 72 model 240z, which was built Dec 71 (from the markings on my seat brackets) didn't have 1 as far as I'm aware. But HS30 00150 (which I also own) did, and I believe that car to be an ~July/Sept 70 build date car (compliance plate from memory says Oct 70). Hence we have to use other car part date stamps to form an accurate picture of manufacture date. HS30 00051 - still has it's original front guards, but I don't have access to the car and I can't recall looking at it's inspection lids to see if it had the plastic clips. When I do get to see it again (stored with a friend) I'll try and take note.

Very risky in this market, IMHO.

Actually managed to find the images of other early features on HS30 0004. Plastic clip inspection lid AM Radio - no signal seek function and no power antenna switch (similar to Fairlady Z-S specification) Early style ventilated (hat) brake rotors. But here is the curve ball, since HLS30 in 1969 had the solid rear glass, no defrost glass. But HS30 0004 is different. Temperlite stamp Rear view mirror date stamp and horn date stamps And the sump plug and sump (welded in sections)

Does anyone know when the plastic inspection lid clips were phased out? Date wise? Reason I ask is that HS30 0004 has build date features in line with 1969 production HLS30s such as the bonnet (or hood as you'd call it in North America) without the corner support brackets where the hood meets the windscreen cowl panel/inspection lids and the solid rear plastic panel in the boot (no tail lamp bulb access covers). I've got photos of the above attributes attached, and I can't find them now, but I'm certain HS30 0004 had the plastic fender inspection lid clips too. (I'll try and dig the photo out if I can find it). I'm fairly certain HS30 0004 started production in 1969 or early 70, but may have been put on pause whilst other things happened at the factory as @HS30-H points out here. https://www.viczcar.com/forums/topic/36375-1969-240z-hs30-00048-destroyed-seeking-advice/?do=findComment&comment=246026 In my experience to date, I haven't seen other HS30 (AU) market cars with the plastic clips on the inspection lids yet. Hence why I'm wondering when the plastic clips changed. My own car HS30 00051 had the early Nissan 2400 OHC valve cover, which I know was sort of phased out around July 1970 and many other early AU market 240z's had the 2400 OHC valve cover, but they stopped somewhere between HS30 00100 and HS30 00149. I guess my question is this: are the plastic inspection lid clips considered a 1969 production date feature?

Yes I was a bit upset the Matsuo San was not mentioned when asked who the designer was. And the 3ltr Rb26 was a good laugh.. perhaps he was confused between 2jz vs Rb26? But it's in the name of the motor!

This will all reverse in time. All the boomer classics will start to fall in value, much like the 50s cars have. Sure some cars appeal to multiple generations (I think S30z more so than others), I'm partial to a split screen corvette, the old Corvairs, the Chevy Nomad wagons, and some other muscle car era stuff (XA/XB Falcon Coupes - AU market), but I'm an early Gen Y kid (born 82) and a lot of my generation and later born kids ar into the late 80s / 90s stuff. That seems to be where the growth in values will come from next. IMHO of course. Jay Leno garage featured 3 Japanese classics and asked which had appreciated the most in the last few years. I was somewhat surprised by the growth, but it's highly subjective and doesn't factor in rare models (I guess) probably based on Hagerty data which is very US centric and not globally aware of certain makes / models.. https://youtube.com/watch?v=znzi-nxV0bA&si=AVbQgNZeo5XV6HJE

I hope when voting this year many think this way... Haha.

Yeah I had my FD RX7 repainted 10 years ago in Ireland when I was living in Europe and it cost me around 4,000 euro at the time. That was considered expensive to some, but I wanted a quality finish. Replating parts is getting pricey too. But just shop / labour rates have increased a lot, as you say, it pays to do a lot of the work yourself if you can to cut down on costs. I was quoted $15k AUD to restore a 240z in the late 90s.. that's how much things have changed in 25 years.

Easy $100k to restore a 240z in Australia. Lots of parts need to be imported.

It looks like a fairly honest car. Good starting point.

That's about $16k too much for the K series under the bonnet or hood as you folks call it.