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What a great read! I liked the then and now comparison. I didn't realize it then but now can't get away from the Miata=MGB Z3=TR6 comparison! Nice to have the "spiritual successor" to the TR6 in my garage, but the original is equally fun to drive...I was disappointed about the 914, specifically in re: transmission as I had been eyeing a 914/6 for my next garage project...

That's my whole point...here we are saying how much more valuable these cars are supposed to be, yet cars in representative condition don't sell/acquire/trade whatever often (if at all) and no one discloses when they do sell and for how much. That smacks of smoke and mirrors, and until someone offers concrete evidence to the contrary no one can authoritatively state the difference in value between a 1969 and a later 1970-72 MY car. It's fair to assume it'll be more, but we need empiric evidence. Here's an idea, Chris...I'll "acquire" #26 from you for a few months, then you can "acquire" it back...That way we can establish a market and publicly documented value! Whaddayathink? 50k to start? I can have my attorney draw up a contract.....

Market value= what it's worth at point of sale True value= what seller wishes he could've sold it for

We've seen on EBay several nice #3+ or #3 cars sell between 12-19k--I'd call that "trickle down." It's the 3- "driver" cars, those with unrestored engine bays/undercarriage, old interior, faded original paint etc that aren't getting the love we want them to. BTW, I'm still waiting for disclosure of sale for any of the F500 cars in restored #1/#2 condition. Don't know of any that have crossed the auction blocks in the last few years...Tough to guess a market value when no one's willing to sell. And rumors of sale without evidence don't do much--let's see some numbers!

I disagree. If that were true why does NADA show 1972MY 240Z in excellent condition being valued at $19,800? Random guess? Picked it out of the blue? Doubtful. Why is my car insured for $24,000 agreed value? If Hagerty didn't think it's worth that, they wouldn't accept that as an agreed value. Not sure what you call "normal," but most of the Zs I've seen called normal are fair to average in condition which represents a wide swath of pricing from 3-12k. Classic cars are not liquid assets. If you try to sell it on EBay, you'll not get its true value because it'll be seen as a "quick" sale. Wrong audience as most folks are looking for a steal/bargain. Like trying to sell your classic on Craigslist--bad marketing will get the seller a bad deal

Right between 81166 and 81168. Sorry to be glib about it, but there's no real break point. We don't know exactly how many were on the first boat, whether they were in sequential order etc. Is it the first 100? 500? Only those in 1969? It's not like a flatfloor 3.8 S1 XKE or a 64 1/2 Mustang. Part of the problem is the absence of an endpoint. Numbered paintings have value because they are 1 of X, not the 25th or 100th of a long open-ended series. IMO, VIN's an interesting aspect of the car but not worth that much. It might be worth a 10% premium to me, but that's about it unless it's got real provenance (owned/raced by someone important etc)

#194 is probably a better starting point, too, as you get to stand on the shoulders of someone else's work, albeit at a price. I would like to get involved with either project, but the lack of available "unique" parts for the 1969 builds will make for a very drawn-out, patience-testing and expensive restoration process. Maybe those parts are in this guy's posession? IMO, with apologies to those who believe to the contrary, the F500 cars really only maintain their value if they are approached as numbers matching, original restorations. Wrong engine, upgrades/modifications, wrong resto parts all conspire to lose the cachet value of being in the first boatload, and it becomes more like a "normal" 1970 240Z. Or (gasp!) like a 1972 one....

It's an F500 car...first boatload, according to Carl's site. Truly, low VIN. That cachet gives you a couple thousand premium over any other project car, not sure what it'd get you after restoration since there are so many variables with quality of work, attention to detail etc.

While I'm very sorry this happened to you, I'm glad everyone's OK. And, those three sentences made me laugh and spray coffee on my keyboard. So there's that. best of luck on the repairs!

Muwahahaha...(rubs hands) Starter kit=gateway drug Won't be long before that nice gray floor is covered with Z parts! Not intending to self-promote, but check out my picasaweb link and look at the undercarriage after I did POR/Chassis Black. Then go look at yours. Then go order more paint. You...cannot...resist...the urge.... j/k. sorta.

No tricks. Single bolt holds it in... I wouldn't sweat the rust stuff too much. Wire brush the loose rust, then wash/rinse/dry followed by your choice of rust inhibitor paint and chassis black topcoat. Then you'll want to do the control arms, mustache bar, halfshafts, driveshaft etc etc etc...

numbers match?

Looks just like my floorpans when I pulled up the undercoating...I considered the PowerMesh, but went with new floorpans. I think the rust is ultimately worse than it looks, particularly around the seat mounts. They could fail if stressed--not worth the risk IMO. You may still have to add some patch panels if the rust extends too far up the firewall, sills or trans tunnel. Good luck! BTW, that Zcave went up fast! Does your contractor do out-of-state work?

Almost 1100 entries...that's impressive! Good luck to the Z racers!!!

Yep. Outside of rechroming and replating some items and sticking on some decals, mine is as complete as I want it to be. Of course, there's still the matter of rebuilding the numbers matching L24, and tweaking the L28, but that's not necessary to drive and enjoy the car.

My memory may be going, but I don't recall MSA offering a 6-1 header with a 3" outlet. Currently IIRC they all go to a 2.5" outlet and include an adapter to accept a 2.25" exhaust if needed. Of course, it could be a different manufacturer or an older version of their current header (pre 2004) then I would be ignorant of what their offering was.... BTW, once you've been to 6k with a nice exhaust, cam and some other goodies, you'll go back for more pretty often. Like every time you drive it. Trust me, I know....

New window channel felt may be helpful also. When I restored my doors, the original felt was hardened, flat and allowed for substantial window glass movement within the channel. I can imagine that at speed the window could be forced into an orientation that doesn't allow it close completely. If you think that helps, JC Whitney sells replacement felt for reasonable prices, and it's an easy process. Here's a thread: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14360&highlight=window+channel

Nice garage! What's your floor coating? Good luck finding the clunk! When you repaint....I used both POR-15 and Eastwood products to do parts of the undercarriage/suspension. Whichever you choose, be sure not to mix and match, as they will cause wrinkling/lifting if one topcoat is placed on the other's anti-rust product. The finish and degree of gloss is similar between both "Chassis Black" products. I had to use the Eastwood product for some components since it came as an aerosol (and I didn't have HVLP or compressor equipment) and POR15 only comes in a can. Good luck! And remember: once you clean some parts, the rest looks more and more like it needs to be done, too. "While I'm there, I may as well...."

...dumb question follows.... I'm not an engine builder, so set me straight. What good are larger valves if you haven't enlarged the intake and exhaust runners in the head? If those don't flow more air, what good does the bigger valve do? Thanks from the peanut gallery

Doubtful typical for flattops. The needle/valve mechanism to which the float attaches is stuck open (dirty needle valve, needle valve seat, binding of the float mechanism, damaged float etc) allowing the float bowl to fill above the level of the nozzle in the venturi. Or (per the 1973 FSM EF-18): -Excess fuel pump pressure -Fuel pump drawing in air

...marked for 2009! Sounds like a lot of fun. Lake Lure is a great venue, too.

Thanks for the clarification. I spoke with motorcycle shops, other classic car resto shops, farm/tractor guys who used it on their gas tanks, and googled to many non-Z forums before deciding against the DIY POR-15. Truthfully RedKote can, however, soften up under conditions where there is a lot of MEK, 100% ethanol (some even say 85%) or high octane racing fuel exposed to the surface. None applied to my situation.

Care to elaborate? My shop's 25+ years of experience and lifetime warranty speak significantly against what I infer to be a negative implication.

http://classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19034&highlight=por15+gas+tank Pretty extensive documentation. Personally, I'm attached to my eyebrows, so I didn't want to mess with gas tank work on my own. With my luck the sealant would've blocked off the pickup tube if I DIY'ed it! So, I paid a radiator shop to clean it, coat it (RedKote was their product) and give me a limited lifetime warranty all for $300. I call that a deal BTW, Enrique...As a native Richmonder, the weather there doesn't get that cold. Too much Gulf Stream effect mixed with the Appalachians keep it warmer than you think. Occasional Alberta Clippers will chill the Upper South, but rare to get more than a couple days of snow per year. Like Raleigh, even a whiff of the white stuff makes the whole city grind to a halt!

....I have garage envy. Both contents and space! No more projects for now (The Z, M and wife's van are in a 2 1/2 car garage and my wife's van won't be moved--unfortunately) until our new shop/garage gets built in the next 2-3 years. For now, I'll live vicariously through you! Great find. Hope the mildew isn't harbinger of hidden rust. But, rust can be fixed--uncracked original dashboards trump rusty floors in my book!