chickenwafer

^^ Like they do in the Middle East Except there if you get your hand chopped off stealing a apple! Stealing a car should constitue something worse......like your legs from below your knees or castration Dave

good feedback, let's hear some more!

Well I picked up this book called Lust, Then Love: the story of the new Z by Rob Sessions at Barnes & Noble today. Great book, many pictures, great details, a good addition to my collection of Z trinkets. In the book is covers all generation Z's, from the first 240Z to the new 350Z and everything in-between. I got me wondering; What does a car have to have to be a real Z? It's more a badge and a marketing slogan than Nissan would want us to think it is. I know the first Z's recipe for success was a low price, good handling, modestly powerful (for the time), and a good dealership network that made them available. Plus, they were pure sports cars. No frills. So then my mind started to wander some more and I thought does the 280ZX count as a Z? How about the first 300ZX? Then the last 300ZX? How about the new 350Z? I thought it would be interesting to have a poll here to see what you guys think. Please feel free to add input. Dave

it will be like driving a new car

sorry for your lose. I would hit rock bottom if my Z was stolen, or any car of mine for that matter. It might help searching around on E-Bay- sometimes stolen cars/parts will end up there. Just a thought. Dave

carl is a fast sucker, ain't he?

Rotaries only become unreliable when you turbocharge them. I had an NA 2nd gen (FC) RX-7 go for over 180,000 miles of hard use without a single rebuild. But, I had a 3rd gen (FD) RX-7 blow an apex seal at 81,200 miles. Mine was a single turbo boosting at 22 psi. And I also dunno about that reliable L-series comment, Dave. My carbed L26 is as reliable as an American politician. Vapor lock, dieseling, and plain old stubborn-ness plauges my L-series. My FC was more reliable, rotary and all. Oh well, we have all had different experiences. Dave

I agree with mlc240z- location is a big factor. On the east coast, where it is frequently wet and snows (thus salting of the roads in winter), older cars that are prone to rust are harder to find. Around here, I could expect a 280Z with absolutely NO rust to command near 15K. I am talking mint, pretine, factory condition, however. But $5,900 getting back to the topic, $5,900 sounds good with that low of mileage on the engine. An engine swap is a big thing, however, and if done inproperly can result in a major safety hazard. Make sure to have your mechanic check out the drivetrain, motor mounts, etc to see if it was installed properly. Also, unless it's the same type of engine the car came with, you might have trouble registering it with an insurance company. My buddy has a 1992 Ford Mustang that originally came with a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder but we recently swapped in the 5.0 V-8. The insurance company couldn't understand because the VIN matched a 4-cylinder base model Mustang but we had a 5.0 in it with 4.11 rear end and he ended up having to pay some kind of custom insurance thing with high premiums even though he's never been in an accident and only like 1 speeding ticket. Ask the owner if the engine swapped in is the same type of engine that oringally came with the car. The OEM engine is an L28, but he could have swapped in a number of different engines, but the most likely is an L28ET- a 280ZX turbo motor. When you register with insurance they sometimes ask for engine plate numbers too, but rarely. If they don't match up with the VIN, you're looking at higher payments more likely than not. Dave

Jason, I have toyed with the idea of a Wankel swap for some years now. It would somewhat difficult, but rotary-powered 510's are in creation so I don't think a rotary-powered Z is that far fetched. I used to own a Mazda RX-7 and I loved those rotaries........ Just think, a 13B with single HKS T51R turbo boosting at like 28 psi and sending over 600-hp to the rear wheels. Then you throw in the 3-rotor 20B were talking about and forget about it! Not to mention, if installed on a 240Z, the weight of the car and engine is so low it would be amazing. Ah yes, a project for some day after I win the lottery. Along with that will be a RB26DETT-powered all-wheel drive 280........... But just as the other Dave here, I do appreciate a good screaming N/A as long as it revs nice and pulls hard. Both engines have advantages and always will, it's just how it is. Bt for my daily-driver, it is just plain cheaper for a turbo to get more power. If I had a race Z, that would be another story....... Dave P.S.- I think it's great how we can have a civil, adult discussion. We can have different views and not go at each others throats which you see so much on other forums (mainly Honda/Acura forums with pimple-faced high schoolers). This is a great place.

I heavily agree with Carl on this one. Rust is like a bactria, it spreads and doesn't stop until you treat it. Usually, if you see some rust there is more lurking behind it. I like the magnet idea that Mriz suggested, it willl find filler (bondo). Filler isn't bad, but some people put it on over rust stops to conceal it, which doesn't do anything to stop the rust. Try to get some pictures of the car if at all possible. Make sure you drive it, as well. There are things to listen for in Z cars that can cause problems such as a suspension clunk, driveline clunk, and other engine problems (although most we fixed with fuel injection). FYI- Unless the car is in PRISTINE shape, and I mean MINT, flawless, perfecto (which it isn't because of the rust you mentioned eariler) the price should not be anywhere's over $10,000. Just use that a baseline. It should be well, well under 10K. But again, it all hinges on the condition. A newly restored mint 280Z could easily sell for over $18,000. Dave

auto tranys have always been a little weaker than manual ones, especially back in the '70's. But newer autos are just as strong. First Gen Z- are you sure they're a clone of the Chevy Turbo 350 auto? Those transmissions are nearly bullet proof, and I know Datsun/Nissan doesn't use an american designs in there parts. In fact, Datsun/Nissan transmissions are nortiously weak. Dave

rather the head than block- less expensive in most cases. Hopefully you will have it sorted out soon. Dave

When it comes to street applications, a turbo will be cheaper than an NA, but for a fully built race application the NA will be cheaper. I agree with that. But the turbo lag nonsense here is pointless. Unless you have some huge turbo that is outregously oversized for you application, you will not experience much lag. Yes, power can be more unpredictable and come in surges, but I kind of enjoy the feeling of thrust and breaking the rear tires lose in 4th gear. I know an NA motor can do that as well....... This whole thing is starting to snowball into some NA vs. Turbo discussion and we all know those never end well. We will always be divided on the issue until some new technology comes along and renders the other one useless. Who knows, maybe rotary swaps into Z's will be the bext big thing? And to Go240Zags- you're selling the Borg Warner T5 5-speed manual trans? I would love it, but I only have like 100 bucks to my name. You should be able to get some nice dough to finance the rebuilt out of that. Do you have another transmission to use? Dave

I agree with Tiberwolf on this. Always suspect the little things first, even as little as do you have fresh gas in the tank? Then check the fuel delivery system, like the fuel pump, filter, line, etc. The check spark via spark plugs, spark plug wires, distrubitor, etc. If all those pan out, then start to suspect something more serious. Dave

I like the K&N filters (don't know exact numbers off the top of my head) and I always use Mobil1 oil. Dave

Apple came out with a mini computer type thing that is standard DIN sized so it will fit in the stock stereo location of cars. It has like a 120 gig hard drive I believe and has the Apple OS and can run other things in your car like a full computer system plus store oddeles of MP3's. Technology is moving in leaps and bounds, huh? Dave

awesome. I haven't raced anyone yet as my Z is still being wrenched on. But I hope when I am done with my L28 turbo swap i should be able to walk over a 350 Dave

I thought mini CD's were dying with the advent of MP3's? Dave

I would say you can ignore the manufacture when actual people have done it before and it has worked on more than one occassion. Although the manufacture does put a lot of R&D into what they sell and the proper way to use it. Dave

i do not know the actual percetages, but i know manuals were heavily favored. I would guess (just a completely random guess, don't put stock in it) it would be like 70% manual, 30% auto. Dave

matira- i will PM with my fax number some time soon. Thanks Dave

I know the application is the determining factor. It all depends on what you want. Truth is, however, that a turbo motor will yield the great horsepower-per-dollar ratio 99% of the time. And I'm not so sure about an NA motor being more reliable than a turbo motor. Most of the time turbos handle abuse for over 200K miles, so unless you're road racing your turbo beast you shouldn't have any conflicting issues that you wouldn't run across in an NA motor. And, NA motors need a higher compression ratio to kick out extra power, thus increasing the chances of knocking and pining, which mandates a higher octane fuel thus generating more money. And because the NA motor will have to be stroked and bored to get more power, along with the high compression, it's fuel milage will probably be worse. I agree, it's all in the eye-of-the-beholder, but you can't overlook a turbo for the pure "cheapness" of it. I mean, if you spend $2,000 on an NA L28 and $2,000 on a Turbo L28, the turbo L28 is going to have more power- no bones about it. And thanks spudea for the info. I thought turbo motors would make more than 450 ponies. Of course, in Japan they can get more and better performance parts to wring more power out of their L-Series blocks than we can here in the USA. I want to goto Japan!!!!! Dave

Very nice. I'm sure this will be a good reference article for others doing the same thing (I know I will be using it when I do my floorboards...........some day) Dave

Sorry, I forgot the part where you said you have a '77 280Z :stupid: . So no, I don't think you would need the collar. My bad. But if you have a 240 or 260 you would. I realize it's cheaper, but an aftermarket clutch will still be stronger. You will eventually want to upgrade again, so why not get it done in one sha-bang? Are you getting a used turbo clutch or a new OEM replacement?? Dave

That's what I thought. I didn't mean SU's were seriously complicated. Compared to normal Holley 4bbr carbs they are amazingly simple. But, in my mind, fuel injection is easier to work with. Maybe it's just because I'm still a youngen :lick: And I agree with Ed that you will want more power after your upgrade. Sure, you will be satisfied with your initial power, but after a few months more power will be the only thing on your mind. And the only way to get that is to go turbo. Turbo engines can push some serious horsepower. A little off-topic here, but I wonder what the highest horsepower L-series NA engine is and the highest horsepower L-series turbo engine is? Something tells me there would be quite a difference. Dave