Jeff G 78

I know, right? I've survived three AZ summers already. This summer was brutal. We had 55 days over 110F and 31 consecutive days over 110F. Last summer, I think we had less than 10 days over 110F. I plan to get my Z ready to daily drive once the weather is cooler.

I can't believe they have been selling this kit for the last decade with it fitting this bad. At least now, their website admits that it doesn't fit as well on a 280Z.

I know this is a zombie thread, but I'm in MSA exhaust install hell again. I got their aluminized system years ago and never installed it until today. Just like the last system I installed, this system fits like crap. Has anybody got the slip fit MSA exhaust to fit on a 280Z? The kink in the long pipe is angled too much and the Z shaped pipe is too long between the 90° bends. It puts the muffler too far outboard to fit right.

The extreme summer heat in Phoenix is starting to ease, so I finally started working on my Z again. It had been parked for 10 years before I moved from Michigan to Phoenix. I got it running enough to get it on and off the car carrier when I moved 2-1/2 years ago. After driving it less than 20 miles in AZ right after the move, I parked it again while I renovated my house. After sitting so long, it has developed lots of leaks, so I will have to pull the trans and replace the rear main seal, the trans output shaft seal, and the speedometer cable seals. I also have a MSA exhaust that has been in a box awaiting install for about six years. My header is an Arizona Z Car 6 into 1, so the MSA exhaust won't simply bolt up. I got the car up on jack stands, pulled the old exhaust, and started fitting the MSA exhaust. This is the second MSA exhaust I've purchased and they both fit like crap. The first was on my race car, so I wasn't too worried about it looking good or grounding out to the body from time to time. The muffler always hung down very low on the race car and I don't want my street car to look like that. On my 280Z street car, I just can't get it to fit right. I tried turning the muffler end for end and it just made it worse on the 280Z. I did turn the muffler around on the race car with the offset at the inlet and the center as the outlet. On both cars, the muffler was outboard too far. I trimmed the corner off the R200 diff like I did on the race car, so it doesn't look like it will touch anything, but the muffler is too far outboard no matter what I do with all the joints. When it fits best under the car, the exhaust tip is nowhere close to centered in the opening. It's close to 1-1/2" outboard from where it should sit. I think I will have to cut the rear pipe, shorten it between the two 90° bends, and re-weld it. I might just use this system for now and make a system from scratch that fits better and includes a resonator and a flex pipe. Has anybody gotten this sytem to fit on a 280Z without modification? I didn't get a photo with the muffler on the pipe, but you can see how far outboard the pipe outlet is compared to the space between the tire and the fuel tank heat shield. The exhaust tip is pretty much where it is on the 260Z race car, though the muffler is much higher with the muffler turned the proper direction on the 280Z.

Thanks Dave. I'n in exactly the same situation as the OP. I bought my '78 280Z 33 years ago not running. I removed the A/C compressor when I bought it, so I have no idea if it worked or not at the time. I have all the parts, but without knowing the condition of any of the components, is it worth keeping? I now live in Phoenix, so a feature that added weight and wasn't all that important back east, is now a must-have. I'd like to at least keep the HVAC unit and maybe do a blower upgrade, but I just don't know. I think the OP has exactly the same dilema.

What a complete pain to fix. When I opened the email, I went straight to the picture without reading your findings. My first thought was "wait, what? How is that even possible?" It was only after reading the post that I saw that the backing plates were on the wrong sides as well as upside down. After removing everything from mine to do new bearings and a disc brake swap, I know how much work it was for you to put it all back the right way. I probably would have had many choice words before I calmed down enough to tear it apart. After your other discoveries, I would have serious trust issues with every single component on the car. Hopefully they didn't open up the transmission or differential.

Just make sure the bolt is also isolated. The washers need to have a shoulder so the rail bracket hole doesn't ground against the bolt. Ideally, the washers would be pretty thick, but that will throw the rail alignment off. The better method would require a donor rail where a section of each vertical support is cut out and replaced with an isolating material to keep the heat from transferring up the support. Think of an exhaust hanger, but in compression rather than tension and rigid material rather than rubber. Once isolated from heat conduction, the rail could be properly wrapped to isolate it from radiant heat. Right now, the sleeve only holds the conducted heat in.

Yep, that's what the OP proposed. They would be simple enough to mock up.

I'll have to see if I have any pics of my 5 minute rubber hose fix. I ran the hose directly over the top of the valve cover, so it wasn't really touching anything. One thing I did have was a factory asbestos(?) insulation sleeve that covered the fuel rail. My guess is that it did the exact opposite thing it was designed to do. If the heat came through the rail mounts, the insulation kept the heat in the rail rather than keeping it away from the fuel. I tried several different heat shields like yours with no success. Keep in mind that mine was an endurance racer, so the underhood temps were sky high. We pitted for fuel every 2 hours and we'd open the hood as soon as the car stopped to keep it from heat soaking. Races were up to 25-1/2 hours long, so you can imagine the heat we had to deal with. When we still ran the iron exhaust manifold, it would glow cherry red during night time pit stops.

I've mentioned this in quite a few threads on the topic. Before you do anything, run a simple trial and see if the results work for your car in your weather conditions. The swap takes less than 5 minutes to do and is completely reversible. Swap the rail for rubber as I described above and repeat the conditions that cause heat soak issues. If the issues go away, you know where to start. If they persist, you have a different issue that needs attention either as a fix, or as a step in the right direction.

It's in my other reply. I did not use a return when I went all rubber. I wanted to do exactly what you are suggesting in order to keep the rail and the fuel return, but it wasn't needed in the end. I never even unbolted the rail. I simply abandoned it in place.

I was mid-race when I tried the rubber solution, so I simply removed the short rubber inlet hose between the chassis supply pipe and the fuel rail and replaced it with a longer hose that went from the chassis pipe to the front carb area. I put a T fitting in the hose and ran a short hose from the T to each carb. I clamped the return hose off with a pair of small needle nose Vice Grips to keep any fuel from dripping out of the rail. I was able to run the next 10 hours of the race with no vapor lock in 85° ambient conditions. Prior to the rail change, it would lose power at high RPM after less than 20 minutes. The misfire would continue to get worse until it had no power. I had previously tried different fuel pumps (mechanical and electric), deadheading the fuel system, adding LOTS of various heat shields including bowl shields, swapping carbs, and propping the hood open to increase airflow. Surprisingly, deadheading the fuel helped a bit compared to keeping the fuel return. I can't explain why it helped. It wasn't a cure by any means, but it did allow us to race longer before we got vapor lock. It was only the rail delete that fixed it completely. I don't know if I have any pics. It was never pretty since it was a race car and not a street car. I'll look.

My race car proved otherwise. I tried EVERYTHING to avoid vapor lock with minimal success. The heat was all coming through the rail brackets. The more you insulate the rail, the worse the problem becomes since the heat generated by the head is then trapped by the insulation on the rail. I spent many hours adding various heat shields and other strategies to keep the temps down, but all failed miserably. The 5 minute rubber hose trial fixed the issue.

I ditched the rail completely and went all rubber. It was a game changer. I wanted to do a trial as you suggested in order to keep the steel rail isolated from the head, but I never took the time since the all rubber method worked so well. My plan was to isolate the brackets from the head with a good isolating material. The material used for carb spacers should work well if you can find something similar. You need to make sure the bolt is also isolated. 3D printed isolators would be a good proof of concept if you have any access to a printer. The spacers would be super simple to design.

Unter the dash on the passenger side. The flared part is inboard and the part with the U shaped cutout is outboard. The cutout is for the outside ait vent.

The reliefs are going to be different depending on the orientation of the intake and exhaust valves in each cylinder. Half are I-E and the others are E-I.

Ever try to sit in a Pantera? I'd need an extra 4" of headroom. The new Ford GT isn't much better. I can force myself into a FGT with a helmet, but it's not pretty. I'm 6'-1" and 180 lbs.

That's one hell of a big marker lamp if it's work 0.1 sec per lap. 🙂 Maybe 0.001 sec per lap.

I'm always shocked when I see a seemingly nice Z with lights installed backwards. It tells me that the owner/restoration shop doesn't know Z cars very well. What else did they do half-arse?

What year is your Z? Is it a 240? If so, try what worked for me. I struggled for years with vapor lock while racing and NOTHING helped until I removed the heat coming through the brackets that support the fuel rail. In 10 minutes, you can do a trial and it's reversible just as easily. It costs about $10 in hose, a fitting and clamps. Replace the supply hose between the fuel rail and the chassis supply tube with a hose long enough to reach the front carb. Install a T fitting and run one hose off the T to the front carb and another hose to the rear carb. Finally, clamp a small pair of needle nose Vice Grips to the fuel return hose between the fuel rail and the chassis return pipe. Now go run the same route/Auto-X or whatever used to cause the issues. In my case, it was a 100% cure. I had previously tried everything including header wrap, extra heat shields on the header, carb bowls, fuel rail, etc, propping the hood open, electric fuel pump, no fuel return, etc, etc. The dead headed fuel system helped a little as did the electric pump, but overall, they didn't help enough to bother. Even if you have a FI 280Z, the same thing might be causing the heat issues. Unbolt the fuel rail from the head and isolate the rail with ceramic or other non-conductive spacers to keep the heat from transferring to the rail from the head.

I ran the Falken RT-615K tires on my endurance racer 260Z for years and they were pretty good, though other tires are better. The Falkens were the only option I had in 14". I wouldn't think they would be great as an auto-X tire.

Welcome! Nice looking 2+2. It was obviously taken care of based on the condition of the rubber bumper center and end pieces. Those rarely look that nice on the '74-1/2 - '76 models.

I would have zero issues with used Panasports. They are high quality wheels and will always be desireable if you decide to sell them someday. That said, 14" tires are getting really hard to find, so I'd look at tires prior to buying the wheels. If the date code on the tires in over 7 years old, consider them to be throw-aways. Tires that are properly stored will last a bit longer, but 7 years is the accepted use-by age.

I just found the receipts. I bought the receiver and speakers in April 2008 and I bought the amps and crossover used from a friend, so they are likely five or more years older than that. Seems like yesterday. 🙂