Tony D

Miroux Motorsports out of Belgium campaigns a 240Z with an L28, and closed their garage after someone passing through pointed out an "F54" block is not an L24....which is what they insisted they were running.... VA Motorsports Engineering in Sint Odenroede NL has experiencing preparing FIA Appendix Homogolated S30's. In fact, the owner and some friends are in Finland this weekend attending Rauno Aaltonen's Ice-Racing school.

Sucks this does, missed he will be. Shortly before his migration, his "blunt assessments" were golden elsewhere! I always laugh when I me member this thread: http://www.zcar.com/forum/13-car-talk-forum/226025-i-wuv-you-guys.html

Really like John C said is torque and proper fuel management. The Blue Turd will manage 27mpg if I never go over 65mph and accelerate rationally (not granny-like, but maybe upshifting at 3500 or 4000...) Take that speed up to 80 and the car gets 22mpg---plain and simple, drag increases. At average speeds of 100 I crack to 19mpg... This is an L26, dome tops, late ZX tranny, and 3.7 out back. Now what has shocked me was I thought that was really decent mileage. But three weeks ago, on the way to work (45 miles from my fillup point) the fifth gear shaft nut backed off and locked the tranny in 5th. So I trailered the car home, changed to an Early five speed I have, with the .85 O.D. Now I turn 36-3700 rpms on the 60 freeway going to work, instead of 31-3200 rpms. My First Shock was that the car is a BLAST to drive with that early tranny and it's closer ratios. SECOND was that my mileage went up from rock solid 22 to 23.6mpg on the first tank, and now monitoring it through four more tankfulls, it's been 24, 23.5, 23.7 average. Now really, IMO I'm really beating the hell out of the car since the ratios seem to BEG me to beat on it more now... It's a pleasant side effect which I COMPLETELY did not expect. Only thing I can figure is I'm in the sweet spot of the torque curve now. The key for EFI conversion of this car will be to datalog the AFR's I currently have, and then set a TPS.MAP table which is equivalent. Then start to tweak it leaner---towards 17 or 18:1 in lightly loaded cruise conditions. Frankly I may re-enable EGR for this (using a diesel EGR Cooler) to allow more advance if it helps the mileage. The key is to have MS in closed loop use a WBO2 that either has the provision to shoot for AFR target tables, or a configurable 'switching output' so that you set your desired AFR for something other than 14.7:1, more like 17.5, or 18:1 during closed-loop operation, and then stay in a driving situation that keeps you in closed loop. An L26 or L28 should easily be able to get mid-high 20's with ANY fueling system calibrated for emissions compliance. If you run leaner, you can improve upon that. I've seen L24's with 40mm Solex Mikuinis turn in 28mpgs on the run from LA to Phoenix with an Automatic and 4.11 differential (but the speed was strictly kept to 65 as the limit was only 55 then! Doesn't do that at 80, which is 4K+!

Oh, I got to put Cherdsak onto this guy and meet him next trip to Bangkok. Matter of fact, waiting for a P.O. to go there now! I was at Bangsaen in February (the banner ad on the bangkokclassic front page!) Not any L's I saw...

When I rebuilt my VW, I installed some of the first Pertronix system components available in the USA. I went over 65,000 miles on unleaded gas without TOUCHING A THING. Now, from my historical perspective, I would have to adjust the points every 3,000 miles. Occasionally they would get dirt in them killing the engine (you always wondered why old timers smoked? Becuase that matchbook cover made cleaning points by the roadside a simple matter.) That experience convinced me. I converted my Corvair, and when I got into Z's I put one on my 73 and since 1985 when it was installed it hasn't skipped a beat once. Points were good for the time. But things evolve. Pertronix is an LED switching system. It's an optical points system in it's simple form. It completely eliminated any chance of failure related to points (and there are several...let's not kid ourselves!) I was in GM training when HEI was only 3-4 years old. The old timers didn't like it. But it's been around and proven for over 40 years. While it is possible a CONTROL MODULE can go bad, the OPTICAL sensors and simple hall-effect sensors simply don't usually have problems. I would run an aftermarket HEI module, optical trigger, and a $13 stock HEI in the glove box (only because I'm an old-timer who grew up on the failure prone GM 1st generation modules---the aftermarket modules are better, and don't seem to fail like the low-bid OEM or cheap wells aftermarket stuff...) I suggested optical conversions to my friends who went to Glamis for their VW's back in the early 90's. One guy came back raving that this was the first time in 22 years of going to Glamis every weekend in season that his rail didn't die at least once during the weekend making him break out the points file and have him kneeling in the burning sand over a hot engine and extractor system! I would lose the sentiment. Points simply do not have the ability to provide reliable ignition on their own at the higher-gaps that promote better burn and lower emissions. This was why OEM's got rid of them, and that's why you should too!

What you have when a compressor is done with it's job of making pressure is hot air, at 100% relative humidity. HEAT makes the ability of air to carry water much higher. Air at 120F can hold 2X the water that air at 85F can---with discharge temperatures of 270+F you can see that the amount of water the air can entrain goes up by factors! Really, regardless of the relative humidity of the inlet air, the air at the outlet of the compressor is ALWAYS 100% saturated air. Unless you are running in Alaska in February and it's like -65F there will ALWAYS be a considerably amount of water to deal with on any air compressor with that much compression ratio (ambient to 125psig). While cooling the air is a great idea, and it will help somewhat, it does not 'DRY' the air-all you end up with is 100% relative humidity air at a lower temperature. If you use an expansion device (air tool, spray gun) that has more than a 40psi pressure drop across it, the JT Effect will chill the air to the dewpoint of the compressed air and cause condensate precipitation. (This is the reference PV=nRT equation---you drop that pressure and you can figure out how cold that air will get, good engineers will devise orifices for impulse devices like cylinders and actuators in a Pneudraulic System so they don't hit that condensation point in normal operation...) "Condensate Filters" only catch water in the line, they WILL NOT prevent condensation formation at point of use...they only stop previously condensed water in the lines from migrating down the lines to your point-of-use. The only way to keep that air from condensing is to COOL IT BELOW EXPECTED JT EFFECT POINT. That generally means for home use in warmer climates a refrigerated dryer which chills the air to 35F to drop out most of the water, then rewarms it to 70F for storage in a tank. This way, on a 70F day, using a spray gun you will drop to maybe 50 degrees at the nozzle, you have less than a 30F drop and condensation is not an issue. Harbor Freight now sells cheap refrigerated dryers, if you have a continual high volume use this might be a good purchase. The BEST dew point you will be able to EVER get with a refrigerant dryer is around +35F, and that means it will now be effective for 'instrument grade air' below 65F ambient conditions. That means even if you are using a refrigerated dryer, if you have long lines and the temperature at night drops into the 40's, or below...you can wake up and start your work the next morning and find condensed water in your lines! For a painting job, it's likely overkill anyway, given the volumes of air needed and how long it's needed... A Second option is ADSORPTION DRYERS---these are twin-tower dryers that can give you almost any dewpoint from +35 down to -110F. They in their simplest form waste about 15% of your air for it's purge cycle, and this makes them undesirable for smaller users at home. They are the standard for dry air industry-wide, though. Another more cost-effective way for painters is DELIQUESCENT TABLETS. These are self-consumed tablets of lithium chloride, silica gel, or whatever that chemically absorb water vapor flowing along through with the air. Deliquescent dryers usually come in the form of a small vessel open on one end with a bail or screw top. You just open it up, put in the tablets, and then seal it up again--hook up your lines and go. The tablets are consumed in the process, usually a filter is downstream to prevent particles from making their way downstream. You open it up and drain out the residue after painting. I have a couple of older ZEXs and ZANDER deliquescent dehydrator vessels. They work O.K. and are pretty trouble-free. They will give you near Adsorption Dryer dewpoints, with are far more cost effective---especially for people who only need dry air for painting SOMETIMEs. I-R makes a small 'hotdog' dryer like this, you fill it with Silica Gel I believe (check with your local Air Center)... This is probably the best choice for the intermittent painters. Though the Zander units I got were from a paint shop---they just laid in a supply of tablets and filled up before every car. The big advantage is they don't waste air like a purging twin-tower desiccant dryer. Sometimes these are called 'DEHYDRATOR PACKAGES' and look a lot like the Filter Units, but are longer---sometimes 18" long, and about 2-3" in diameter. They take a dehydrator cartridge that you open like a grease cartridge just before installation. Really, that is about all you can do. If you only cool the air down, you will not stop condensate formation at the gun due to the JT Effect. It has to be somehow dehydrated. What I have found is helpful to cool down the air before it enters your first tank (they do sell aftercoolers dedicated for this purpose, but I'm cheap...) is to grab a couple of old A/C condensers from the front of the car---they are good for 235psi in A/C use, and stacking a couple of them then putting a fan blowing across the whole shootin' match really chills the air down from the hot side of the compressor. You DO NEED AN AUTOMATIC DRAIN TRAP after this aftercooler---you will drop out a LOT of water if you can drop the air temperature from compressor outlet temperature to within 10F of ambient (and you should be able to do it with this setup---if you can't, go get another condenser or a bigger fan!) This will drop the majority of the water out BEFORE it gets into the tank. This makes your vessel last longer as well as you don't have active condensate (sometimes on Oil-Free machines, this can have a Ph of 4!!!) working on the unprotected metal inside the tank. Another thing if you pipe the air in hard pipes is to ALWAYS slope the lines back towards the compressor tank so condensate goes back that way...and ALWAYS take the air off the TOP of the line! Even if you have a workstation directly below the pipe---take it off the TOP of the distributor line, then use a 6" standpipe up, and a couple of elbows to make the turn down to the workstation. ALWAYS extend the pipe beyond where your air coupler is, at least 12", so that if any water vapor DOES manage to condense in the lines overnight, it is down at the bottom of a 12" 'condensate leg' that can be drained or blown down in the morning before starting work by simply opening a valve. There ARE now 'membrane dryers' out there that work by just having water vapor knocked out with special engineered membranes---they tend to be pricier than silica gel dryers, and usually for home use are limited to smaller flows, like 10SCFM. An airbrush might get away with it, but air tools and big body guns won't... I linked some information at the bottom from the Van-Air site, another was "La-Man Extractor Dryer" they had several interchangeable stages, and the dryers could be piggy-backed so you could take out oil in the first one, then moisture in progressive stages through felt-pad filtration and eventually little dehydrator cartridges. I used these a LOT but have no real contact since my original supply (which I took over at a distributor who stocked them....) dried up (uh..) They seemed to work really well, and I see them out there still to this day.<EDIT> Hey! I found the La-Man website, so I linked it as well, these a neat little dryers and are relatively inexpensive given the alternative!<EDIT> Take a look below for the links to the Van Air Stuff. I could, as you see, go on and on about this with tricks and crap... I have been supplying compressors and compressed air systems to industry for going on 20 years now, and have worked with air compressors (and compressors of all types) continually either as a technician or Factory OEM Rep/Engineer since 1984. The LAST thing I will say is DO NOT consider the use of N2 or Argon---not only is is expensive, a dual-stage regulator likely will not keep up unless you have a very expensive one (we used a six-pack of N2 at my last commissioning and they had a hard time finding a regulator to provide 18SCFM at 7psig continually!!!) BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY if you are spraying (even outside) you are blowing massive amounts of non-life-sustaining gasses around. It is ENTIRELY possible that you could get one full breathful of nothing but this gas which would knock you out to the ground almost immediately...should you seize or convulse and the gun stay engaged you then blanket atmosphere the area with this deadly Oxygen-Displacing gas! If you are in a garage with minimal ventilation "Confined Space" protocol would apply, and anybody walking into the space could become engulfed and pass-out / die in short order. This is a VERY serious side effect of using inert gases in high volumes like spray painting. Even welding booths using 'SCF-H' (standard cubic feet per HOUR) of these same gases will require a forced-air ventilation. I don't think this was considered when that suggestion was made---it is a potential death sentence and I would HIGHLY DISCOURAGE this approach. For the cost of a single T-Cylinder of gas, I'm laying money you will be able to find a suitable dehydrator package for your air line, and be really happy with how it works. Deliquescent is more popular for 'gas': http://www.airvacuumprocess.com/Desiccants-NaturalGas.html Silica Gel has been preferred for 'air' for a while now--this is probably a good choice for your application: http://www.airvacuumprocess.com/CompressedAirDryers/VanAirMD-35.html This one is a 'regenerative' style, and is the 'next level up' from what you probably need: http://www.airvacuumprocess.com/CompressedAirDryers/VanAirMHL.html HERE IS THE LINK TO THE NEAT LA-MAN DRYERS! WOOT! http://www.laman.com/extractor.htm

"Power rose from 60 kw@wheels to 66 Kw@wheels with just the carb upgrade. The exhaust was totally stock. Then I changed the exhaust to headers (6-2-1) and a 2.5 inch pipe and the power rose to 86kw@wheels." That was on a stock L20A right? By Bosch Eddy Current Dyno Check, my L20A all bone stock in my 75 Fairlady Z(s) spun up at 71.34 kw (97PS)! Those numbers weren't an L28, please god tell me they weren't! As for "Pacesetter"---define "Total Crap" because, offhand I'd use that exactly to describe them. And compared to the stuff out of the JDM (or even the current series MSA Offerings) that is doubly true. I've taken them off cars before put the stock systems back on and gotten more HP using only the 2.5" crush-bent exhaust. Headers really aren't for 'stock' engines. I have them now on my 260Z becuse the stock manifold cracked due to the new MSA exhaust design hanging that damnable three-bolt collector down as a low snag-point and hitting something. The car lost bottom end, during cold running it's horrible compared to the stock header until totally warmed up. Really, the car does pull on the top end, but no more so than the stock system when used with the same exhaust. Because I had to richen the mixture due to the flat spot off-idle they produced, the float bowls tend to suck down a bit quicker. The added noise draws a LOT of attention, the exhaust is considerably more harsh out the back, and the new MSA design exhaust is not conducive to installing my trusty glasspack under the tranny. If you do get an extractor, the mandrel bent exhaust back from it to the rear of the car is best custom constructed now, IMO. I have driven this car since 1995, in some instances putting 18,000 miles on it in as little as three weeks. It doesn't look like much, but it goes. Really all the headers have done for me is make it way louder and more touchy when cold. The gas mileage did change, but I attruibute that more to the old exhaust compared to the new one. If I'd had a stock 260 Manifold to put back on it, I would have. And when I'm done with this one, it will be up for sale. The noise isn't worth it. The performance has not perceptibly changed from what it was before. As an aside, you added headers to a car with RICHER FUEL (4 bbl)---that is a considerable difference than putting them on a stocker like I did. It coincides exactly with your experience: you added more fuel, then added extractors and got a power bump. I added extractors and it lost power, and I had to richen the mix considerably to even get it back to drivable...and I STILL have to drive around withthe choke lever engaged FAR longer than I did with the stock manifold.

You would think I was Lucifer raping virgin babies by the way I'm treated there. Not that Lucifer would be judged harshly for doing such things there... as long as he didn't tell anybody to search or point out that their own words made them look stupid, not my pointing out their error... I lurk, mainly because I'm running around so much. There's only so much time in the day to play, and I don't have a lot. Less now. I called the 'change' there long ago when I noticed the grooming going on with the clientelle. Sad, but I called it a while back. It became obvious what the goal was. I hope this place stays true. If donations are required, please contact me. Self-Funding a small group of dedicated enthusiasts devoted to real information exchange and growth is far more important than commercial gain in this arena. Regards, Tony D in Manila.

Anything swaps to anything else, you just have to do your homework. I have seen BMW 3.0 EFI setups on 3L Z's... The Bosch sensors are all pretty close, and resistors do wonders to trim within ranges that you need.

I see it on the mountians near the house now... That's a 45 minute drive for me, I guess I'll wait till it's gone. Today I used the tractor to move dirt around the back yard. That's what tractors are meant for...in sane climates at least! "What is this 'snow' of which you speak?" Muahahahaha!

The parties involved have apparently been operating separated by at least one stage of intermediaries. Direct contact phone numbers have been exchanged between current posessor of the vehicle, and the person whom holds the legal title on the vehicle. I have been informed by the title holder that contact will be initiated in the morning.

Interesting, it appears he realized Z-People Talk to each other. I will be informing the OWNER of the vehicle that someone is poking around this stuff when I see him at the Z Club Meeting this Evening. I really would have been interested to see the claims being made, and what was in all those 'erased' threads. I don't see any PM's in my box, so I guess finding out someone actually knows who OWNS the car was not something he wanted. If he mentioned taking parts off this car, PLEASE PHONE ME: <EDITED OUT> This car is/was stored 'remotely' from the owner, and if something/someone is horking parts off it, he needs to know. Thank you all in advance.

I would agree with Curtis' jetting for a stocker. I don't have access to my 44's right now, but the main jet on our 230+ HP Bonneville L28 was 145 or 140 depending on altitude. I think mine were 135's, with either 200 or 220 airs, and 57.5's on idle. Most people add main jet to overcome cruise popping, when in reality up to 3000 rpms and light cruise you're actually running on the idlejets in the Mikuini! 57.5 or 60 is not uncommon when properly set up, with a corresponding decrease in main jet size and great leap in fuel economy. I would routinely run mid 20's on the highway with them, and that rarely varied unless it was a track day (when I could drop into single digits). Likely a set of idles and mains and you will be nuts-on correct for a stocker. With 40's on an L24 I ran mid-high 20's for highway cruise (sticking to 65mph) and on occasion when in states that restricted me through pernicious enforcement presence to 55-60 I could crack 30mpg!

305 is in the garden true enough. 51 is stored elsewhere. I think 1717 or something like that is back there as well. I haven't checked VINS on those cars since they're 'courtesy storage' for someone else. Lowest I own is 6225 (and the matching RHD one 6330...) That's early enough for me!

there are two in the garden... Not mine, but stored there, nonetheless. Should I forward photos to Frank? NOT a running car.