EScanlon

Maybe because you're wrong? The 2+2 looks like a 2 seater from the front, and even from the rear it can be hard to discern a difference. It's only from the side that you can notice it, and even then I've noticed people NOT notice that it's a 2+2 until it's pointed out to them. So, if you're calling the 2+2 bugly, take a look at a 2 seater and a 2+2 BOTH from the front and tell us the differences, THEN try to tap-dance your way out of your statement. ==== Stephen, don't loose hope. Or are you planning on checking out soon? The Z has tripled in value in the last 7 years according to NADA, Kelly Blue Book, and even the Gold Book. The 2+2 isn't yet at the value of the 74 260, but it HAS risen also. It's future value may be as soon as another 7 years down the road. But as a lot of you have mentioned, it isn't the value of the Z that drew you to the car...or were you guys lying? While the 2+2 does have a modified look in profile from the same year Z, it is by far nowhere as different as the 350Z is from the original concept car presented back in 2001, or even the supposed "origin" idea 240Z it was supposed to have been derived from. The basic point here is simple...while it may not be YOUR choice, like white/gold/lime-green color Z's, blue or tan interiors, spoilers, louvers, sunroofs, overriders, cut pile or loop carpeting, racing seats or original, speakers in the doors or in the tail-light panel, it may very well BE someone's choice, and to immediately begin denigrating it....well, that's just plain ignorant. That's the kind of B.S. that passes for "discussion" at another forum. There the competition seems to be as to who can put together the most inane amount of gibberish in the form of an insult or "put-down" of others, and not in helping nor trying to help ALL members of the Z community. If that is what you purport to share...then leave. There I said it. E

Steve you're right regarding Rarity and Desireability. But don't confuse Desireability NOW with FUTURE Value. The Stanley, better known as the "Stanley Steamer", was MUCH higher priced new than the Model T, and towards the end of it's heyday, was not considered as desireable as other similar vehicles. Forget that people referred to it as the "coffin nose" and that they were basically put out of business by the assembly line innovations of Henry Ford; while they were popular for a while, they weren't popular enough to survive against other vehicles. Today, a Model T may set you back $10k to $70k (this is a WAG), go ahead and compare it to a Stanley's price NOW at $30k to $95k. While the discussion regarding ownership of a Pinto, Vega, Yugo, Pacer, Fiesta, Matador, 90's Capri, or other infamous model/marque may vary depending on individual characteristics, it is the test of time that will determine the value or "worth" of any one of them. The Edsel comes to mind as a "non-desireable" then, that is now worth much more than anyone thought they'd be worth...EVER. So since the original question was: And the initial replies were: I pointed out how, by the production figures cited, it was one of the rarest of all the US market models. Which I still think is a valid point. The issue of "desireability" is your input into the discussion. While "desireability" IS a big factor in establishing value (see the DeBeers Diamond advertising), value CAN be established by rarity alone. While you can buy a flawless diamond a comparably equal but RARE diamond would be worth more. In discussing cars, rarity alone can cause prices and desireability to peak (Vintage Z program cars). So, while the majority of Z car hobbyists do not have the time, money and space to collect one of each Z model/variaion...at this time...down the road it may be that the 260Z 2+2 model becomes the rarest and potentially the most valuable. My 2¢ E

Stripped Door Shell OFF the car....possibly 25 pounds or so, easily maneuverable with one arm. (It's been a while, so don't pull out your scales.) Fully assembled Door with glass and actuator mechanism, door locks and latches (they go in before glass)....probably closer to 50-60 pounds. Trying to balance either one on your knee or a 2x4 on a floor jack so you can install hinge bolts...you decide. 2¢ E

Ahh, the poor 260 and worse yet the 2+2..... Someday, somewhere, people will realize that the ONE year US market 260, and additionally in it's 2+2 version may turn out to be the rarest of the US market Z's. Now, this is based strictly on production numbers as reported on Z Home. (See: http://zhome.com/History/Zproduction.html ) I'm not including it against other limited edition packages/variations that were done as marketing programs or as homologation productions. (See: http://www.zhome.com/Buying/BeckBuyerG.html ) But, then again, it's only important if you're selling one, or want bragging rights. FWIW E

While you were ONLY looking at the air breather, (and it is an EARLY style, one without the smog and the flapper valve for Summer/Winter) you completely missed the very early and hard to find "Aircraft" style Seat Belts. Those ALONE in good condition, as these appear to be, were worth the $150+ and then add for Shipping. The other items: 2 Fuel Pumps, Oil Pressure Sender, Door Latch, Turn Signal Light Housing, and the 2 Headlight Acorns...you could maybe sell for $5 to $15 each. The other two items are not clear enough for me to tell what they are, they appear to be some form of bracket to attach to the motor block, so I won't hazard a guess. All in all, you would have had a very early style air breather AND a pair of early "Aircraft" style Seat Belts for about $100 after selling the other parts. But that's my opinion, yours may vary. E P.S. While it's still recent, here's the link to the sale directly: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6763&item=130198688447

Good for you! That's the way it SHOULD work. E

Are you referring to the Trip Odometer Reset Cable? Otherwise the "Total Mileage"/Odometer is driven by the Speedometer Cable, and not by a separate cable that can be loosened in order for "no good" to come about. FWIW E

I was sent this via e-mail, but I've checked it against Snopes: ==== Getting caught once is STUPID, getting caught twice is IDIOTIC, but to get caught THREE TIMES IN LESS THAN THREE YEARS??? That makes it Company POLICY. Judge for yourself. Do you use Jiffy lube? Check this out! http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200k.asx Here's the link to Snopes that takes you to the complete 3 part story where Jiffy Lube responds with "aggressive" retraining (irony intended). http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/jiffylube.asp Also a second link to EZ Lube getting caught as well. http://www.knbc.com/news/3737863/detail.html ===== FWIW E

I'll be out early tomorrow, but when I get back in the evening, I'll continue. Unfortunately, that means I have to make it an early night tonight. Hopefully the pages I posted from the Clymer's helps figure out a couple of them. I also note that in a couple of the photos there are already what appear to be some matched numbers, i.e. 1 and 1; 2 and 2; and a 4 and 4. From what I can tell those DO match colors on both sides of the connector and the connector should mate up. Still working on others. This one is tricky, any other sharp eyes out there? E

Ok, before I get too detailed on the photos, take a look at the following pics and see if that helps get a few more connected. E

Based on your intent to swap out the transmission, it sounds as though you're looking for a car that you can zoom around in. The change to the carbs is more for ease of maintenance than in acceleration response. While the AT does have plenty of zoom in it, the Manual puts that zoom in YOUR hands to control, which is what I think you're looking for. Then you mention the improvements between the model years, and it sounds as though THAT is also a prime consideration. With those to base an opinion on...go with the 280Z. Let the 240 go to someone who is looking for an older, less frills car while still retaining the ease of the AT. My 2¢ E

Rebuild the switch. It's a lot easier than it sounds. You can also swipe the guts or the switch itself from another console cover. E

Are you heading for strict build date correct? Or are you looking for everything functional and even some added updates? Maybe it might be easier to find the Engine and Rear harnesses to match the one you have from Arne rather than the other way around. Normally it's the Dash harness that gets so cobbled up from amateur repairs. Then again, post pictures of the connectors side by side and maybe we can assist in getting the engine / rear harness you have to work with the unmolested dash one. E

Actually John, it's Steve that deserves the credit for that gem. I simply paraphrased and repeated it. His succinct statement is a condensed version of my verbose ramblings. As far as what Stickerman says, that is exactly why I rambled so vehemently. I don't think we've thrown gas on a fire as much as had an open and somewhat lengthy diatribe that needed to be had. This forum IS a very prominent source of information on the Z, mostly the "early" 240 series, but more and more encompassing the 260, 280 and even a very few of the 300 owners. Heck, we've even seen a few 350 owners comment here and there. This site as a result, kind of like Noblese Obligé, MUST hold it's content to a higher level of content than any other site. Because of the fact that this site is in the forefront of the search engines results, it WILL receive the lion's share of the traffic from the searches. That traffic is what the advertisers who promote their wares on this site count on. Advertisers for the most part, and search engines to a small degree are what help offset the cost of running this forum...I would presume. The actual finances of the forum are Mike's business. But I'll bet that ONE little lawsuit from a disgruntled seller with a sharp lawyer could bring this whole thing down faster than we could apologize. Not saying that would necessarily happen, but the innuendo's have a tendency to get bigger and bolder. That is why I spoke up as I did. E

Q-pads don't have an aluminum skin. They're strictly a tar film with a thin plastic film for protection. James, sorry!! Was asking more on the time difference than location. E

I did just that, but I applied tar mat (Q-Pad) over freshly cured POR and used a heat gun on the adhesive / mat to soften it up so I could press it tight. I haven't had any problems I'm aware of (no weird rattling, or problems). I also did it on the inside of the hatch, rear fenders, and firewall. The car is VERY quiet, so much so that you can actually hold a conversation AND have the radio on. Isn't it like 10 am Monday where you are James? E

Kats, would you by chance have more close up pictures of the rest of the badges on display? Wow, what a find. Thank you for sharing E

Good point, but I'll bet that many are pleased in the overall increase in value of the car, even though that may not have been their primary intent in buying it; while being displeased in the extra expense of refreshing and maintaining it. That is, they bought the car because they had a longing for the car and not because it was inexpensive. They were able to realize a wish/dream earlier than later because the prices were low. But it seems that Arne agrees with me in that it is our own outspoken attacks against sellers, etc. that MAY cause people to shy away from buying them. After all being a member of a community where the backstabbing, and insults are so open....why would you want to be involved? Steve...KUDOS!!! Those are my thoughts almost to a "t". If I may, I would ammend the first sentence I bolded to: We should strive to be critical and FACTUAL when discussing cars offered up for sale, identifying obvious discrepancies and omissions, while remaining completely NEUTRAL with regards to a seller's intent. Only if we KNOW of something for a fact that is being "hidden" INTENTIONALLY, would we question those motives. Always with the basic understanding that caveat emptor is the correct approach in all potential sales. The second sentence I bolded is again very prominent in my involvement with this forum and threads. As Carl has mentioned, I also feel that people who are interested in these cars do a simple Google or Yahoo or some form of internet search with "240 Z", or "240Z" as the search criteria and you'll see THIS site and Z-Home as the first and second links returned. The Wikipedia has come up first a couple of times I've searched. The point behind this is that it behooves us to act civilly, respectfully and openly inviting to new members. Yes, we welcome folks once they do show up. But if one were to search for "for sale" as the search criteria once on this site, you'd be buried with unacceptable commentary. As your last sentence points out...criticizing a car's flaws need not be a character bashing exercise. MY 2¢ E

I agree with Ron, and if you insist on painting with POR, make sure you actually DO move the hinges through their range of movement often (every 10-15 minutes for several hours) during the curing cyle...otherwise...they'll be SOLIDLY stuck. Don't know if I would want to try to hammer them loose, you may end up having to strip and start over. I did this recently when I painted the inside fender and door hinge areas on a Roadster and I wanted to make sure both the Hinge Plates and the Door Latch Plate were both protected and still allowed full range of movement. I moved the plates periodically and often...and the next day I still had to smack a couple to get them loose...so be aware of this. FWIW E

I agree with on the inside of the outer skin. The inner skin...wow! that was a chore I'll bet. Whether on the inside of the door surface or on the passenger side of the surface...ouch. I just used an old shower curtain as a vapor barrier, but not for noise control. Interesting. E

Sorry Carl, you missed the point entirely. Please read on. Yes, we're all presumably here to discuss Z cars, not figure out how people are intentionally trying to cheat, lie or otherwise deceive others when selling a car. That's the main crux of what I pointed out. If that is how you see the content of this thread, then maybe I'm the one that has the wrong insight into how to discuss the value of a car. Then again, I've never been a car salesman. To me, alluding "insurance fraud", "scams", schill bidders, skepticism as to the truth behind the pictures, allegations based on the number of pictures, presuming a dishonest intent on behalf of the seller...are all indications of a non-accepting disposition. None of these have anything to do with the value of, nor what to look for in the car...they all lead people to think that if the car has been washed or detailed, then the seller is hidding something. That's is simply NOT necessarily the case. Does it sometimes happen? Yes it does, but that doesn't render everyone who is trying to sell a car guilty of being dishonest simply because they washed the dirt and grime off. Sorry Carl, that take is entirely your own misunderstanding. That's not what is being said, nor implied. What IS being implied...directly...is that as a group we seem to speak out of both sides of our mouth, or with a forked tongue. Let me try to explain. If a car shows up on e-Bay by an unknown person...it's a free for all to see who can best come up with a "cut-down", or a "Yo mama..." type of joke regarding the evil, dishonest, and untruthfulness of the e-bay seller. Yet, a member mentions a rust bucket and we laud it's potential value, praise it's future potential and generally encourage the member as to what a good find he made and how he should go ahead and devote time and money to it. (go back and read the further posts to the thread I reference above) I am not saying to NOT mention the flaws...I'm saying don't attribute wrongful, evil, dishonest, or untruthful motives to those that address the flaws. Many times those flaws are obvious, and people unwittingly attempt to repair them. Mostly they are doing it to maximize their sale potential...NOT TO DEFRAUD YOU. They, like many members here, feel quite good about some of the work they have done. And that is where I asked how we would treat a member's car. Whether offered for sale by him, or by his executor, or.... I'll bet that if we know whose car it is, the treatment will be much more benevolent than any other car that we've discussed. Again, this is your misunderstanding. Even with some of the cars you have had a hand in selling. Whether as a commissioned salesperson, contact point, or go-between, many times the buyer comes back and mentions further expenses they choose to make. Should we start wondering why there wasn't a full disclosure of additional expenses they chose to incur? Was your intent evil? Did you purposedly HIDE something from the buyer and they then discover it? Probably not. I'll go so far as to say that this offends you, as that is undoubtedly not even something you would think about. And there you have my point. (And please note, I am NOT implying you are deceiving folks, your record stands alone, and the praise is noteworthy.) With ANY car purchase; new, old, restored or refreshed, part of the act of taking ownership and feeling pride in just plain owning or in actually doing some work with it, comes the part where you do something to, in your mind, make the car...YOURS. Whether that's a pair of fuzzy dice, new valve cover, metal tire valve caps, paint job, new interior or just simply a wash and wax, it's what you've done, and now the car is and feels yours. Sometimes those expenses are things you knew when you bought the car. Other times, they can be a surprise. The soft clutch turns out to be a totally worn disk and not a bleed or a new slave. The little clunk from the rear end isn't a loose half-shaft, it's a bad transmission or differential. Were these intentionally with held? Maybe and more than likely MAYBE NOT. I'm sure that you'll agree that the sellers in the transactions you were involved in did NOT have any evil, dishonest or malevolent intent inadvertently forgetting that .... "Ooops, yes, the clutch DID get changed at 40k because my wife rode the pedal while learning how to drive a stick and we simply forgot about replacing it. Sorry about that". As opposed to: "A car with 80k on the ORIGINAL cluch? I don't think so, there's something fishy going on here! What kind of a SCAM are you trying to pull?" "Seller said 'New tires' but at 50k miles? Also a new muffler? Hmmm, must have been raced everywhere! The guy is trying to rip you off!" and not, "Tires got flat spots from sitting, muffler rusted out from old age and mice, we replaced them to make the car nicer and ready to drive." That's the kind of negative attitude I refer to. Nothing to do with value, market or otherwise, simply the negativity of the whole thread. You're correct in that we should be helping interested people, potential buyers to get the best CAR, my point is that it is not about the best STORY about potential conspiracies designed to defraud them. While there are people out there who DO need to be reminded to be truthfull, it isn't EVERYONE. That is the crux of my point. Let's not continue to assign malicious intent to oftentimes innocent actions. Then again, isn't that why Car salesmen jokes are always filled with how the buyer gets ripped off? Because after all, Grandmothers on their way to church on Sunday use the slicks, the fart can mufflers and the stroker engines to make sure they get heard before they arrive....right? Telling the truth is ideal, yet with people so willing to try to see wrongdoing in simple declarations....THAT'S what can hurt us NOW and in the end. It paints this forum's members as a bunch of harpies just willing to pick apart any car that isn't their own. What we build in respect for our knowledge base and speed of response gets washed away by the cutting edge of these "discussions". Let's address the obvious FACTS and not the innuendos; note the painted bumper as not being correct, not as the guy is obviously trying to pull a fast one. Note the fresh black paint in the wheel wells as a common practice in new and used car lots everywhere and not...it's hiding something. Sorry Carl, you missed the point entirely. It isn't about pointing out the flaws, it's HOW we go about pointing out the flaws. It isn't about the individual car's market value, it's how we belittle each and every flaw and render the car as a potential bomb waiting to explode. It's how we conclude that every car being sold MUST have flaws, it can't possibly be that nice. It's how we allude to the seller's dishonesty and intention to deceive. It's how we PUBLICLY and OPENLY demonize and degrade the people who are selling their cars. It's how we denigrate, belittle and go further out of our way the higher the price being sought. That's just plain old - WRONG. Whether they are original owner's, heirs of original owner's, executors of estates, second owner's or people who have gone out to dig out that "barn find" or even Grandpa's car who after years in the nursing home finally agrees that the chances of his driving it again are slim, but he insists that the car be washed and waxed and please shoot some black paint in the wheel wells because he wants a last set of pictures that match the ones when he picked it up from the dealer....I'll be willing to bet that most of these people are trying to find an easy and quick way of maximizing the money they receive for the car. Sometimes that's through e-Bay (whether we approve of it or not), othertimes it's through Craig's list (for all it's limitations) and other times it's through the newspaper ads or the help of individuals such as you and other's. Could that be why you don't often post potential sales here? Or would the point I'm making be the reason why potential sellers would NOT want to post here? There may be a bad apple or two, but from the last few threads that discuss car sales....you would swear that all sellers are like the corner drug dealer trying to sell you a bag of good sh!t. Many sellers and also you, from what the people whom you have helped buy a car point, DO have the utmost honest and benevolent attitudes towards making sure the new owner benefits. That is why painting all sellers with the broad brush of dishonesty is unfair. As a side note: The Z's prices have been rising slowly and steadily over the years. I recall when I bought mine that getting a $7,000 loan (not what I paid) was only secureable by using both the Z and an Acura Legend as collateral as even the HIGH NADA Price was only $5k or so. Nowdays the values are at $9,950 as the AVERAGE and HIGH is ... $18,325. So it IS getting better. (http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1971&m=1254&d=2208&c=13&vi=79022&z=98685&da=-1) FWIW, and apologies for the soap box. E

I read threads like this one and marvel at the amazing capability of folks to belittle, disect and otherwise denigrate a vehicle presented to them via pictures, that has been cleaned up and attempts made to make it more desireable to prospective buyers. Yet, based solely on a member's description of an admitted RUSTED vehicle, we praise it's virtues and potential: see http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=246068#post246068 It seems that ANY attempt at making it sellable is a negative. Opening statements such as or speak volumes about our willingness to find fault and "chinks" in the presentation.Heck, I'll bet that the vehicles that can survive the kind of suspicious inspection that gets formulated are few and far between....if any. I wonder how many of these folk's vehicles would. How come nobody suggested a drive out to inspect the car? It may have at least lent credence to the disection as a form of discussion, but other than that most of the comments are nothing but conjecture based on the ability to doubt the image presented. Are there flaws, you bet. The Chrome on the bumpers is a very sad tell-tale, that might be a very innocent .... oops! or an intentional effort at correcting a poor chrome job from 35+ years ago. (And that has been known to occur so often that we recommend, painting, powder coating, re-chroming, etc. just to make it presentable.) Not every vehicle that gets stored and forgotten in a garage gets put away properly. Nor do they get maintained every week, month...sometimes year. Will some items in the car deteriorate just from sitting around being exposed to the air? Yup. If not properly put away, (and we have dozens of threads on how to do just that) we all mention what problems you may expect. What if this car is an attempt at correcting a poor storage procedure? It might not be all damaged goods. I wonder if we would belittle it as much if we found out the car was one of our member's who was having it sold by a 3rd party simply to avoid the hazzle of the sale, or an estate sale. Would we belittle Bambikiller's vehicle in the same manner? I know his vehicle had had a lot of work done on it, and still needed more work when he passed away. Sorry, but there's enough negativity in the world without fomenting it here. If you want to point out questionable items, fine, do so. But attributing evil intent, or an intent to defraud, or a willingness to cheat....that's what's just plain old ugly and distasteful. My .5¢ (it's not worth a full penny) E

Ron; Actually, it IS supposed to be a Blue wire. This is one of those anomalies I was referring to. Follow the R/L wire coming from the Acc Relay and note where it connects to the Blue wire going to both the Blower and the Defrost circuit....THAT is where it changes color. Nice huh? There are numerous instances of this. But nobody has pinned down where the Ignition Switch gets it's power from. This is one of those...."Can you find the Spot?" games. I'm asking it this way to confirm one of my "deductions" based on about 6 different diagrams. E

Check that the nylon washer isn't shifting on you as you accelerate with your foot. And you surmise correctly. Once the engine has started, additional Choke (gas and not a mix of gas/air) does not help the engine warm up any quicker. But your post bears repeating, and I added some emphasis. Remember, the Hand Throttle is the equivalent of a BRICK on top of your Accelerator Pedal. It does not have an automatic cut-off circuit. FWIW E

Should be in the fuse box area beneath the warning light panel. It is an in-line fuse holder and not a part of the fuse box. It may be mounted to the side of the fuse box, but that's unusual. The Accessory Relay, in your year should be on the upper part of the Passenger Kick Panel. I believe the Heated Window Relay is also mounted there, but I'm not 100% sure. There were some crazy changes in 72/73 that make it difficult to ascertain exactly what and where. In that time frame, the connectors for the harnesses went from being loose and then just held to the body by the rubber clamp "fingers" to being incorporated to a "Buss" box on the Passenger Kick Panel. FWIW E