240Z-Fan

Things to that can cause this 1) Low coolant 2) Thermostat stuck open (what is the engine temp after driving it for 10 minutes? Does the needle ever move?) 3) Loose or cracked vacuum line. Under dash or under hood on right side fender, IIRC Al

$12k for a non matching numbers Z? I would need to see high res photos of all the problem areas in a Z. It is too easy to miss things when examining select, relatively low res magazine pictures. Theses details make a difference as to whether I pay $5k, $8k, $12k, or $20k. Don't get me wrong, I love GRM and Classic Motorsport magazines. In fact I have 10 year subscriptions, but the photos I looked at on the mag website didn't show it as being super clean, just cleaned up. Al

I didn't see any sparking between wires, but I didn't think to check it at night either. The issue was 100% repeatable. The idle would smooth out and the timing light would return to a nice rhythmic pattern. I didn't have a jumpy tack but this was also in a 73z with points. I replaced the wires with a set of Autolites and the problem went away. Come to think of it, I had problems with two sets of wires on Honda's. My Honda would barely run in the rain; I didn't suspect the wires because they were new. So I replaced everything else with no success. Replacing the wires on a whim solved that problem. The second Honda, my sisters, burned a valve for no apparent reason. (I had blamed her for not running high enough octane fuel because it was always pinging). When I rebuilt the engine, I couldn't get it to stop pinging no matter how carefully I set the ignition and cam timing (with 89 octane fuel). I finally borrowed the new wires from my Honda and put it on hers and the pinging stopped. Putting her wires back on brought the pinging back. A new set of Bosch wires got rid of her pinging permanently. Regarding the cross firing: I had always learned to have wires cross at right angles to avoid cross firing, so I was shocked to see a girlfriends Scirocco had the wires running together in a channel. Since them I have seen many other cars with this configuration. I suppose plug wires are much better than they used to be. Al

FastWoman FWIW, I had issues with cross-firing with newish NGK wires some 14 years ago (these NGK's had the translucent blue insulation). I could see the misfire on a timing light at idle by clipping the *pickup* to each wire and watching the strobe flash. The problem would go away when I separated the wires. #'s 5&6, I think. I don't know whether it would show up on the scope (I seriously doubt it would cause the tach needle to bounce as you described), but I have been leary of NGK wires ever since. If it were me, I would try a known good ignition module and see what happens. FWIW, I am very interested in seeing what you learn; I am BSEE that has been away from it far too long and would love to put my old tektronics scope to use on my car hobby. I have learned a lot already from following this thread. Al

I had this happen with one of my gauges; the schrader valve that is on the inlet side (not the release) was sticking. I replaced the valve and the new values were higher and no longer had the same value for all cylinders. I also confirmed it with a second gauge. Al

Years ago I spoke with a Z mechanic that used to frequent the old Z-list, Marc Sayer. Though he wasn't the best businessman, he did have a lot of knowledge that I appreciated. He said he often had to talk people out of going to poly bushings. Instead, he talked them into replacing all the old rubber with new rubber because poly is just too harsh for the street. Replacing the old worn out rubber with new rubber really transformed the cars. For a race car I would go with poly, for the street, rubber. My 240z is getting new rubber this winter as I doubt the 36 year old rubber is still good. It is also getting all new ball joints and tie rod ends. Al

As I recall, the thermostat has to be oriented a specific way to fit in the housing, if it isn't you will either break the housing (BTDT) or bend the thermostat. My guess is that it was bent during the installation by the previous owner/mechanic. (So pay close attention to the orientation and fit when reassembling.) Al

This is exactly my thought. If the clutch isn't looking up then it will run hot when stopped. When driving, it will have enough air flow to cool without the fan. If it were the radiator you would have problems at higher loads, ie freeway. With the engine cold, see if the fan spins easy. It should be stiff cold. If it is easy, the clutch is bad. Al

... Verify that the flap is moving freely in the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. About 18 years ago, my 78 had one get damaged from a backfire. I don't recall all the symptoms but replacing the MAF fixed it. Considering all that has been tried and replace, I would check the MAF before taking it apart more. Borrow one if you must to verify it. Al

Wow, I am impressed. I would not have expected this to work. Nice Job! Al

Thanks Carl, Arne, and Zedyone_kenobi, I really appreciate your thoughts. Especially about travelling with the wife; we really do love travelling together. I am generally quite happy with stock power; I love the reliability of bone stock motors. In the case of this Z, I prefer to keep things original. The thought of having to pull the engine to eliminate the oil leak is what got this started. My comments about building a hotter motor is mostly because I have always wanted to build a strong Z engine. I love that straight six. The discussion about another group buy for Euro springs has me thinking as well. Back to my questions- What AC system do you think would be best to swap into the Z? Or do I just keep the York in place and get it working? Am I worrying unnecessarily about pulling and reinstalling the timing chain covers with the engine still in the car? Can I leave the head on and do a good job? Thanks again to everyone, Al

Geezer, Sailor Bob, and others, Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I do want to enjoy the car more. I have always been of the mind set that cars were meant to be driven. But having seen three prior daily driver Z's turn into swiss cheese (I am in the rust belt), I found myself quite protective of this gem. Added to the protectiveness, there were new issues that came up every year when I brought he car out of hibernation, combined with not enough time, they kept me from being able to drive it as much as I would like. My plan for this winter is to rebuild the front supension (as a precaution) with all Nissan components. Of course, I also need to decide on the best way to fix the oil leak. In-car or engine pulled. In the next year or two, I would like to take the Z on a long trip with my wife. Maybe cross country. That'll rack up some miles . On a eight day trip this year, we drove 3,600 miles in my 94 Miata. I am not sure what mods I am willing to do. My fear is that the bolt-on mods will cause the original parts to be lost over time. I would like a good working AC system, a strong engine, and a stiffer suspension (shorter sidewall performance tires would surely help). Maybe I will get around to posting some pics, good and bad, so everyone can judge for themselves. Any purists out there want to give me an oposing view? Carl? Al

I am torn. I have a 73 240Z with 48,000 miles. I have been trying to keep it original since I bought it 6 years ago. This included replacing tired old parts with new Nissan parts and undoing some other non-stock changes. (ie aftermarket, clutch-less metal engine fan was replaced with correct clutch and Nylon fan.) These are the facts: <DIR> I purchased it from the original owner. I have the original window sticker, all the records for the car, and a pretty good history of the cars life. (ie, it was stored in a NIKE bunker for 5 years near LA) It is 99.99% rust free. (It has one smaller than dime size spot on the hatch lip). The frame rails are very clean. The dash is not cracked. The prior owner retrofitted it with round top carbs and an early filter. The original carbs are long gone as is all the smog equipment. The engine is otherwise original. The body is in excellent shape. The original paint shines like new. It does a few light dings and the sort. The roof was repainted when a box was dropped on it; it has some checking (sp?) in it; presumably from painting over the stressed original paint, it but it matches beautifully otherwise. It has the York AC system. It worked when I bought it, but not since. I have a mystery front end oil leak. I have not tried to identify it yet. The NEW nylon fan I installed two years ago shows significant evidence of contacting the AC idler pulley. (Rats). It appears that the water pump is going out based on the shaft wobble and coolant on the alternator. (Did I over tighten one of the belts?) My alternator just died again. Surely from either oil or coolant contaminating the commutator and brushes. ( I have the original alternator too.) I have Appliance 14" wheels on it the original owner bought in 1973. The carpet looks like new The original seats are very good but the driver seat has worn in one spot. </DIR>So here is the multi part dilemma. The AC: It is more of a nuisance than anything. It is in my way under hood as well as the fact that it intrudes in the passenger foot well. It probably has a leak but otherwise just needs charged. ( I do have 5 good cans of R-12 squirreled away) <DIR>1. Do I just remove it and store it away? 2. Do I buy a more modern compressor or system and try to retrofit it? </DIR>The engine: I need to replace the water pump and the alternator. I really want to solve the oil leak once and for all. I don't know if the leak is the front main seal, the oil pan gasket, or something else, but I suspect I will have to remove the front timing cover. Of course, the front timing cover is very difficult to install without removing the head and not have another leak. The fact that it is a 73 precludes me from keeping the underhood completely stock. Additionally, I wouldn’t mind a hotter engine. <DIR>3. Do I pull the engine to make the whole cleanup and repair easier? If I pull the engine, I will mar the painted bolts and mating surfaces that are factory perfect right now. (The hood has never been off) 4. If I pull the engine, should I plan on sticking a nicely built L28 in instead and park the original engine on an engine stand? </DIR>I have driven the car maybe 2000 miles in 6 years. Once I fix the issues above, as well as other items, I would drive it more, maybe take an extended vacation with it. I do not intend to cut it up in any way. What do you think? I would like to hear from the hard core purists and non-purists. Thanks, AL

The original wheels were steel. They look to be wheels made by Appliance. My car wears the 4 Appliance wheels bought in 73 by the original owner. Al

Carl, thanks for posting this. 1) I really like the idea of Cars and Coffee. It has me thinking I should try to start this locally. The big appeal for me is that it would bring out a different sort of car enthusiast. I, and many of my car friends, are not the Saturday night cruise-in sort. Some are in bed by 9:00pm; but up at 5:00 am. 2) I am excited to see the BRE Baja Z in Classic Motorsports. I love the quality of the articles in this magazine; I am sure the write-up will be first-rate. (This reminds me of why I have a 10-year subscription) Thanks and Congratulations. Al

Hello Darbji, Nice to hear from you. It isn't the same without you.. Wishing you a full recovery. Keep us posted on how things are going. Al

I just returned from a 9-day, 3200 mile road trip to Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota and Wyoming in my 94 Miata. It was great fun for all the reasons that Carl described. I hope to do the same in my 240z but it isn't ready yet. While the car has only 48,000 well-loved miles, I have found that many items have needed replacement due to age or maybe lack of use. (I am the second owner by the way). In addition, the PO made some changes I chose to reverse. I have replaced the steering rack bushings, front diff mount, alternator, hoses and belts. Repaired the radiator bracket and replaced the non OEM metal fan with a proper OEM fan and clutch, replaced the non-working electric fuel pump with a fuel filter. (Fuel would not flow through it, even with the filter removed), replaced the 160 thermostat with an OEM stat. I even sourced a set of shoulder harnesses that had been removed by the PO. Currently I need to replace the rear wheels bearings. In addition, the AC needs charged. It must be leaking as it worked when I bought it in 2002. (it is the original York AC). I plan to install a pertronix ignition in it, replace the ball joints and tie rod ends. Oh yes, the brake booster is flakey too. Yes, the car deserves, and I need, to take it on a road trip someday soon. It would be the first since I have owned it. If only I can find the time as the house projects are taking priority this year. Grab the camera and the camcorder; enjoy a road trip in a classic Z! Al

I used Reliable Carriers. They were excellent. I highly recommend them. http://www.reliablecarriers.com/ 1.800.528.5709 As a precaution, I wanted the car out of the sellers hands as soon as I gave them the money. I brought my newly purchased 240z to one terminal (Sun Valley California) and it was immediately parked inside until it was loaded in a closed carrier for shipment. 2 weeks later, it was in at my house. The issue with companies that contract out the work is that it is hard to claim damage. Which party accepts responsibility for the damage? There are horror stories about some of these companies. In the case of my 240z, I wanted it shipped by closed carrier, I wanted to be sure there was insurance, and I didn't want it contracted out. Sure, I paid a bit more, but the service was great. Dropping it off at their terminal saved me some money. BTW, they went over the car in detail to note all blemishes prior to shipping. Their eye for the smallest imperfections was amazing. DAS is a very good choice. I did not use them but they were my second choice based on my needs. Al PS. Make sure you follow the link above, there are others with similar names but are NOT the same company.

Thanks, I just subscribed too! -Al

Wow. What a great car. Congratulations Mike! -Al

Well, while I am not a fan of most chain-type repair shops, the tool that Sears has is really great. I wouldn't mind having one in my tool collection. The neat thing is that it is non-invasive, much like a voltmeter, it clips onto the battery terminals and has an inductive probe that clips on one of the leads to monitor current. The software performs the diagnostics and reports back with a determination of bad alternator (rectifiers or voltage regulator), bad battery, i think even bad starter. If the price is anywhere near ten bucks, it is well worth it. Ah yes, English is my 1st or 2nd language depending how you look at it. Either way, bad mechanics are just that, bad mechanics. Stupidity is not bounded by race, or ethnicity. It seems that the chains tend to attract them as they may be cheaper than really competent ones. I have done my own work since I started driving with very rare exceptions in about 25+ years. One recent exception (of two in 15+ years) reinforced my belief that I should do my own work... or find the one mechanic I can trust. However, in this case, the time savings and low risk may be well worth the trip to Sears. Al PS In all fairness, I wonder if the language reference was more about being able to communicate the problem to the mechanic, not that he/she was in some way inferior due to their inability to speak English.

Ben, There have been numerous discussions as to how to diagnose this sort of problem. Search the forums to see some good diagnostic suggestions. Alternately, go to a local Sears store and have them check out your charging system. They have a really great tool that can diagnose the electrical system. Best of all, last I recall, it was only $10 to have them hook it up. Call them to verify thie price before going, but this may be the best way to know where to start. Then come back and let us know what you found; we can help you better once we know more. Al

Okay, thanks. There weren't any lat the two Walmart stores I checked before, but at least I know to keep checking. And yes, $4 is a lot compared to the standard hotwheels price. But I can buy quite a few before I exceed the cost of a set of tires. :classic: Al

Stephen, where did you find them? I can't seem to find them anyehere except ebay. Al

I know heavy wheels affect steering feel, due to the gyroscopic effect; ride quality on a bumpy road, due to unsprung mass; and braking, due to inertia. Though I don't intend to run the car regularly at a track day, I wouldn't mind having that option. My biggest concern is that I don't want to ruin the ride by crashing over bumps as I carve through a turn. Any pictures? Thanks again! Al