mimregi

I bought a Z with twin DGVs on it. I have toiled endlessly about ripping them out and going with SUs, but every time I almost do it, the cost has me wondering if I shouldn't just commit to what is there. The problem is that, as a guy who doesn't have much experience working on cars (yet... I'm learning and have decent instincts) the DGVs are a bit intimidating. Most of the info I can find assumes prior knowledge. The SUs on the other hand have a ton of accumulated knowledge easily accessible... But you know that, and I digress. I thought I might try to get a cheap, used DGV and play around with it so that I could learn it without risking my car being off the road for an extended period of time. I saw this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/Carburetor-32-36-DFAV-23A-Weber-DGV-type-Pinto-Carb_W0QQitemZ260053905902QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33550QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem It's a DFAV and is currently at a nice, low bid. It looks pretty similar to the DGV. Anyone know enough about these carbs (and can point me at someone who does) to say if purchasing it as a project would teach me anything? Thanks! -m

I was prepared to go 2.25" (no resonator) based on feedback here, and if not for the shop's encouragement to go 2.5" (no resonator), which I had assumed would be louder, but I cannot imagine it being much quieter.

Sorry I didnt post yet, but i wanted to wait until I had some pics... which I still don't (and in fact am kicking myself for not having taken some "before" shots). Man am I pleased... and man am I relieved to be saying that =) When I first pulled up, I thought that they hadn't finished, because I couldn't see the muffler AT ALL. The guy managed to get a fairly standard sized turbo muffler angled and mounted in such a way that I haven't found an angle from which you can see any part of it without laying on the ground -- even squatting right behind it, it's really well hidden. I layed down on my chest to see what kind of progress they made with the low-hanging pipe, and there was definitely a difference, but I felt like there was further they could go (still a few inches of clearance left in the canal)... until I looked at it from the side. It's pretty much even with the frame rails (hangs just maybe-but-probably-not-quite half an inch below, as opposed to three or so before I brought it in). He said they also clamped the collector down a bit because it didn't appear to have a good seal (may help explain why the gas smell had gotten so drastically worse all of a sudden; almost certainly related to the big backfire that started it all), though they felt the manifold seal was solid (this was welcomed news). Welding, bending and mounting all looked good (there was a couple of inches of rod sticking out of one of the joints that I meant to ask about but forgot -- it was neither hanging down nor up into anything it could interfere with, just kind of sticking out sideways into space; I didn't have a good angle on it and havent double checked yet, but I suspect it was part of the mounting), overall I was pretty pleased. Set me back $270, which seems a bit high, but they did do some extra bending and it was solid pipe throughout (no clamps or joints); most importantly the worked seemed good, so I paid it with a smile. Then I started the car... I had an expectation of what the car would sound like with 2.5" pipe (he talked me into it, I had intended to go 2.25" but I was putting my faith in this dude) and no resonator, and this was not it; this was better than I had expected. I was STUNNED how quiet it was. Sounds strong, not like a civic or anything, but quiet, even at high revs, and this is exactly what I asked for -- I like to drive with the windows open and I still want to hear the music. Best part: gas smell is GONE. I have driven it about twenty miles and not caught a whiff. It looked to my eyes like they cut the tip a bit short (and I still may extend it some just to protect the hatch), but nothing appears to be getting in the cabin anymore. I still suspect I am running way rich and certainly have a long term project where all the seals on the car are concerned, but right now I am very happy =)

Ouch! Well the car is at the shop now. I feel pretty good about it -- the guys seemed to know what they were talking about and care, and they didn't have a problem with me walking around under the car with them... which was cool. The only times I have seen the car from that angle, it has been six inches over my face =) I mentioned in the OP that the pipes hang too low -- well the collector comes off the manifold a good ciuple inches lower than it apparently should. I was glad to see it and talk through it with the guy, he was going to raise it up from there back, but talking to him a bit, he is going to just slightly heat bend or maybe even cut the collector to get the whole thing up higher. I was really pretty surprised just how off it was, I suspected it was just a non-original collector, but I fear that the manifold may not be in as great shape as I hope. Once the new pipes are welded in and the muffler is on, we're going to check the seal there... keeping my fingers crossed. The whole thing is going to run a bit more than I had expected (about $250), but if they do a good job I won't complain. For that money money though, I will be walking under the car with them and being pretty picky about everything.

Damn Ed that is a FINE looking automobile! The more I hear and read, the more I think I am just going to get the exhaust done at a shop. That particular Meineke is the only local recommendation I have gotten for Orlando, but it was from someone on these boards (seerex) so I am going to give them a shot in the am...

i was very tempted by the pics of the coated headers at motorsport -- very sharp. I am leaning away from new headers at this point, having read this and unearthing a few other threads on the matter. Mine have some silver paint flaking just a teensy bit, but they are not flawed in any obvious way (is there a good way to check for an exhause leak besides just trying to feel for one?). I'm going to see what the guy at <gulp> meineke (I do have a recommendation from someone here though) has to say, and then make a call. totally appreciae all the feedback though, extremely helpful.

I got a recommendation for a local guy from Seerex (I hate going to a shop without a recommendation), so I am going to check him out today and get an estimate. I have a sneaky suspicion I will be ordering parts though...

280~master: If I do it, I am definitely ordering everything -- I am a big believer in replacing and cleaning everything I can when I have access to it, so I priced it out with studs, a gasket (obviously) and everything else I am ware of. I appreciate the advice though -- patience is not my strongest virtue, so a friendly warning that the bolts are prone to snapping will not go unheeded =) (part of why I need a hobby like working on my car -- to learn patience) kmack: My primary concern is still fit. My hesitation with a 6-into-1 is that the vertical is built in. Unless I am much mistaken (possible), the 3-into-2's come down at an angle, so I can alwyas shave off some of the vertical drop by cutting the 2-into-1 adapter. I appreciate the offer, but I don't think the 6-into-1 is for me =(

Hooray! I had hoped so, and that definitely has me leaning more towards just putting them in myself. It actually seems like a pretty easy job -- "bigger" than the carbs, but pretty straightforward -- am I under a drastic misapprehension there? Anyone have any experience with the "off the shelf" solutions? My only concern is that it will fit waithout any modification or fabrication (if that's a chance, I may as well just bring it to a muffler shop right off the bat). Thanks as always Arne =) -m

Considering getting a new exhaust manifold. This would officially be the biggest automotive job I have undertaken (have been slowly working my way up to it -- redid the ignition system last week, carbs next week). I could just go to a shop, but I would rather do the work myself. In order to have all the relevant info before making a call, can anyone tell me if I need to pull the engine to get the manifold off? It looks like I can get to it if I get the car off the ground, but it seems worth asking here =) Also, MSI is pretty much the only place i know to shop -- if anyone has any recommendations from either there or other shops, I'd be glad to hear them. I am looking at the targa exhaust system (it is in their print catalog, but cant find it online so I am not sure it is still available) and the MSA 3 into 2 headers. It's a '73 with the stock E88; I primarily just want to rip the butchered system out of there and get something nice that is relatively quiet and doesn't hang low (the current piping that is in there hangs a good 3-4" lower than anything else on the car, and the car is lowered a bit). Thanks! -m

Just ordered the stuff to do the carbs today in fact =) Many thanks again for the input! I'm looking forward to the job, it will be my first. Don't be shocked if I am posting more questions here next weekend! -m (btw Arne, the steering wheel looks great!)

That is fantastic, thanks a ton! =) It is much more step-by-step which is kind of what I need. I just got off the phone with Motorsport and the guys told me the synchrometer I linked above will not work with the adapter linked above, only the synchrotester (which I also linked third, but with a question mark). Does that seem right to anyone? I'm going to take his word for it, but I surely wouldn't mind corroborating opinion. This: http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/TE/60-9965 With this: http://www.thezstore.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60-9990 and not this: http://www.thezstore.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60-9976 which kind of makes sense now that it has been pointed out to me...

OK, I have the books, I have the diagrams and my car just backfired a split in my muffler... so it's time for me to bite the bullet and tune the damned thing. I have never done something like this, but I am confident in my ability to learn. That said, it seemed prudent to ask a couple of questions here, because I am a fan of free advice =) First thing, I want to make sure I have all the tools I need. IN addition to the basics, I am getting ready to order my sync and adapter. I am pretty sure I have the correct ones, but I would rather be corrected (and possibly ridiculed) publicly than get the wrong things: http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/TE/60-9990 http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/TE/60-9976 (does this get me the same thing: http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/TE/60-9965 ?) Is there anything else I should make sure to have? I'd like to do timing adjustments as well (also never done that), is there anything I may need? If anyone has worked with DGVs before, any general advice? Any gotchas or things to look out for? I have the braden book and the haynes manual, plus a service manual on CD ROM, but most of those assume some general carb experience, so any beginner advice would be welcomed =) Thanks in advance!

So after some further inspection, there is a split in the seam of the muffler, which explains the added noise. I drove it home from work yesterday (14mi in the rain). The car is running better, though not necessarily great, which is to say it is not coughing or firing anymore but still a bit rough. I'm off work next week, so I think it is time to finally bite the bullet and rip the carbs off there, clean them out, get them adjusted and synced and do a full tune up (in addition to replacing the miffler -- it sound like a mustang now...). Thanks!

edit: apparently, according to another thread, I may mean afterfire here. unclear to me... So the short version of the story is that my car backfired VERY loudly on the way to work this morning and now has a clearly different sound. I was close to work so I kept driving (if not for the difference in sound, it was running pretty well) and took a peek. A tertiary glance gid not reveal an elmer fudd-esque banana peeling tail pipe or any other obvious damage... should I be concerned? Obviously I need to get the muffler off to take a closer look, but it is my daily driver, so I need to make a call on whether or not it is safe to drive. The longer version of the story... the car has dual weber DGVs which are long overdue for some love (I was actually intending to post some time this week about syncing them and some other questions I have, I have never done that kind of work before). The car has been idling rough but more or less running pretty well at speed. Typically, it would just idle a bit rough, get progressively worse, let out a little cough and then be fine for a bit before repeating the cycle. It did that this morning, no cause for alarm, but the "cycle" went quicker and I actually got the little cough twice. After the second, we're running fine again, it starts to degrade slowly, I downshift to corner and BOOM. It sounded (to me at least) like a shotgun. I had some muffler work done a few months ago. The work seemed ok (admittedly I should have given it a more careful inspection or just done it myself), but I wasn't inlkove with the way it sounded -- it was just a bit tinnier than I had gotten used to, but I chaled this up to the fact that before the work, the muffler had a hole in it. Also, the other day on the highway, the chrome muffler tip shot off when I threw it into third (wasn't happy about that). I'll be damned if that has anything to do with anything, but I mention it here because I am an amateur at this and have no shame -- if it is even POSSIBLY related, I would rather include it. Anyone have an opinion regarding the drivable safety of my poor car? I know he is just acting up for attention -- daddy has been so busy lately, I haven't been able to spend quality time with him, just back and forth to work... no bath time, no carb cleaning, not even the new stereo I promised... kids. Thanks in advance! -m Quick info: >'73 240z, Weber DGV carbs >starts right up, generally runs great except for the aforementioned idling, which started maybe a month ago >Has blown white smoke when revved from time to time in the past, though that has never been associated with any recurring issue >Used to have a pretty bad gas smell (which is but one reason I suspect the car is running rich), mostly went away after the muffler work. >At about the same time as the rough idling started, I noticed that it had a very low tolerance for the choke, meaning that a full choke, once the engine was running, would typically stall the car out. I couldn't idle at more than 30-50% choke without slowly stalling out (and when cold of course, at no choke it would also stall out). Obviously related is that the time to get it from cold to not needing choke at all to stay running was notably shorter during this period.

My car got hit and had an extended stay at a body shop (what a nightmare) but I am ready to start prepping for the carb project again. ****f, if you are out there (tried to PM you to no avail) or if anyone else would care to chime in, I have a few follow-up questions. -I have Braden's weber book, and he covers the DGAV pretty thoroghly. If I recall correctly, like me, you have the DGV 32/36's, no? Was the operation as he described it still pretty spot-on for your carb? Do you recommebd the Haynes manual in addition to Braden's? -Have you found any other good resources on the net for the DGV's? I was able to find an exploded view, but no user groups or in-depth rebuild info. -Were or are you getting a gas smell? mine can get pretty strong sometimes, and I am not sure if it is the carb or not. -I read through your other thread on jettings, did you have any final reports to post? Thanks much! I hope all is going well for you =) -mimregi

Wow, seems we have a lot in common! Thanks for the post =) I'm afraid i can't answer your questions about the components, they were in the car when I bought it. I can't imagine they are terribly hard to find but I have never looked =/ I made the same decisions about the webers. I hate to go against the well-intentioned and knowledgable advice in these forums, but for me it ultimately came down to moeny. For a fairly minimal investment, I can take a good shot at getting the webers up to snuff and, like you, I am looking at it as a learning experience. I picked up both the Pat Braden Weber book and the Haynes one. I just got them, but just reading through the Braden book is getting me excited about the project =) It'll probably be mid-late Feb before i pull and rebuild the carbs (I am going to make a kind of weekend party out of it with a few friends and do a bunch of things to the car -- car stereo, brake pads, weather stripping, carpets, etc.). I'll post again in the space with an update (settings, results, etc.). I'd love it if you did the same =)

Consider this a vote to sticky the thread. You are a hero, man! Awesome job =) I will be wiring these up myself. Should I expect to see a lighting improvement by virtue of making and installing the harnesses, or does this just allow me to easily install better lights? And if anyone wants to throw out a recommendation for some reasonably priced headlamps, please feel free. -m

Wish I could take credit for that =) I got a real find, someone did a helluva job with it, I am just doing my best to keep it up! I've already at this point bought rebuild kits for the webers -- decided to try the less expensive route first, see how it goes. I would like to see if I can get them running well and keep on top of them, shold be a good learning experience. I really wouldn't mind at all having a set of SUs as backup or just a project on the side, but you could probably get more for them on e-bay then I have to spend (i was bidding as high as $125 not including shipping etc. and consistently getting outbid, generally into the $170's). If you want to blow them (or the webers for that matter) out cheap (in the $100 range), I'll take them off your hands, but I am hesitant to out and out make an offer -- don't want to insult you The only other major thing I am really looking for is an AC system, if you have one on an extra car. -m

OMG Arne I just realized who you are! I have read nearly your whole site =) I actually forwarded it to a friend with the note "this is EXACTLY what I would like to do at some point". You are an inspiration! Quick update -- I was just outbid on a third set of SU's and have a better feel for what that will cost me. I definitely want to move to the SU's, but at this point, I am going to order a $25 rebuild kit for the webers and a couple of books and see what I can learn. I may still go to the SUs in the long run, but this will be a good learning experience for me =) Thanks all! Still happy to take any advice/anecdotes. -m

I'll bave to check on the coolant manifold, I know one of the previous owners had done quite a bit of work (this car was raced at one point before being restored for street use). I lost an auction on a set from a '72, the ones I am bidding on now are from a '71, and if I decide to go that route, I'll do what I need to fit them in. Thanks a ton for the info =) Happy to listen to anything else you (or others have to say)! -m

You sound like me =) The car is basically fast enough for me at stock, I'm not trying to eke extra horses out of it (of course, I want it to run powerfully, but I'm not racing it, nor do I even get on it all that much). MPG is a concern for me. I should have included this info in the OP, but it's worth saying that I am getting decent performance, it starts fine 85% of the time (sometimes takes some more cranking, sometimes gives me bad white smoke, usually starts very quickly) and I am getting around 15 mpg for the most part. I get some rough running sometimes like the timing is a bit off, but this is often solved by a few strong revs of the engine. I appreciate the input though. I am still leaning towards the SUs if I can find a way to do it affordably. Any idea if they will bolt on fairly cleanly? Looking on e-bay, what exactly should I be looking for? Mine is a '73...

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=8707&cat=500 I just added a bunch of pics of my carbs to my gallery (the "my carbs" photo album does not appear to have photos in it... not sure how that works). I have been kicking around what to do next (carbs need a rebuild at minimum, may be an excuse to go to SUs, and I need to educate myself on tuning and maintaining the carbs -- I want to make that investment into whatever system I am going to have for the long term). Trying to figure out a few things... -I have been trying to figure out for a while what I even had... weber DGVs on cannons is my best disgnosis after a bunch of homework (http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=76). The site lists them as "32/36 DGV 5A" -- anyone clue me in as to what the numbers designate (if more than just an arbitrary model number designation). Of course, if anyone who knows these things really well can tell me that I am mistaken about the model altogether, please educate me =) -If I do invest in some round tops, will they mount properly on the cannons? I am currently the high bidder on a set of round-tops off of a '71 (I figure even if I dont use them in the car, I can take them apart and learn a thing or two)? I dont know if they are the four screw or three screw model, but I don't figure it much matters at this stage (does it?). -The bulk of folks here seem to be big believers in teh SUs, but cost being a factor for me, can anyone with any experience with the DGVs share a story or two about how much they loved or hated them and why? I am really jazzed about pulling the carbs and working on them, but I don't want to spend money I don't need to, and I don't want to spend a huge amount of time on something is it isnt the right thing. Thanks!! -m