Mike B

Yeah, but where does his Z live? Also, why is JonnyRock's pin in Victoria BC now? -Mike

ConchZ, you have it correct as shown. The adjustment lever should be on the side closest to the transmission tunnel. For the drivers side (on LHD cars), the adjustment lever should be on the right and for the passengers side, the lever should be on the left. -Mike

Here is a link to the Amelia Island photo gallery on Supercars.net, including many pictures of Carl's car. There are 13 pages of pics from the show. http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/2002/6.html -Mike

I probably won't make it again this year. If I do I won't be bringing a Z. One of these days I will make it. I just wish they would hold it later in the year though, when the weather is better. -Mike

Here is another 1970 (8/70) production just listed on eBay that seems like it is in much better condition and may be a better buy, even though the BIN price ($5500) is more than twice what they are asking for the other car. It comes with a stack of documentation, including the original invoice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-Z-Series-240Z-DATSUN-1970-240Z-very-rare-early-original-California-Z_W0QQitemZ230333428754QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item230333428754&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318 -Mike

Just go down to your local Nissan dealer and give him the part numbers that Arne posted in the thread. They most likely won't have the parts in stock, but can order them and should have them in just a couple of days. You can also order online from nissanparts.cc or courtesyparts.com (Courtesy Nissan). -Mike

Take a look at this thread. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33334 -Mike

gnosez, So are you saying that all US 240Zs had a metal fan shroud from the factory? Are they deducted points at a ZCCA judged show if they don't have the shroud? I don't recall seeing them in pictures of cars at national conventions. How about splash pans? How are they treated? -Mike

Gnose, I agree that the metal 240Z shroud is rare, but I'm not convinced that they came stock on US 240Zs. I know that they are shown in the parts catalog, but I think in the US they were actually just available as optional items from dealers. How are these treated at national conventions? Are people deducted points if they are missing? -Mike

I realize it is almost April now, but the Classic Motorsports both had a ton of these calendars at the Amelia Island show and gave me about 20 of them at the end of the day. If anyone wants one I can send it to them for the cost of shipping. I should have asked Carl to autograph all of the January pages first . -Mike

What are you going to put in it now then? -Mike

This thread is 2 1/2 years old. I think he probably got his order placed by now... -Mike

Why bring back several very old Black Dragon threads just say try zcarsource.com? Do you work there or something? -Mike

Yeah, but he didn't say WHERE he would have to go to look at it. I guess he meant his garage . -Mike

Here is a clue . -Mike

Bob, I think I have both sides (L&R) of the part you are looking for. I'll send you an PM tonight after I confirm that. -Mike

I'm sorry, I thought one of your concerns was regarding the person who started the thread using a reproduction of a throttle knob in a car show. I'll let a show judge chime in, but my understanding is that any US car would get a deduction for having a throttle (and throttle knob) that it was not delivered with. I am confused. In your scenario above, what country are the people located in and what do you mean by Vin #19? Remember this is a site frequented by people from many countries and there were many models of S30s with a VIN #19, such as S30-00019, HS30-00019, HLS30-00019, etc. Sorry, couldn't resist that one. Bryan is right about HLS30-00019 being safe from counterfeit though . Ok, now some better examples. S30-00002 is discovered in Japan and it is in a very rough state. Most of the original unique parts are gone. Should we send it to the crusher, since it has no value now? Should we restore it using any currently available Nissan parts, no matter how different they are from the originals? Should we get as many NOS, original used, and correct looking reproduction parts (gasp!) as are available (thanks to people like Bryan) and restore it as close to original as possible? If HLS30-00019 were available for sale, and it was in pristine shape, but didn't have a red-dot knob, correct hood bumpers, and a correct fuel door knob, would that keep you from buying it (assuming you otherwise could and would)? If you bought it with all these parts and found out later on they were reproductions, would you feel the car was "a fake". Personally, I think the whole idea that a few reproduction parts will increase the number of counterfeit cars that will fool an educated buyer is a bit overblown. Uneducated buyers should not be buying cars they know nothing about. What about the VIN tags, including the one etched in the firewall? What about clear title paper work? What about a block number that matches the VIN range? What about the databases that Carl Beck and others keep of cars and their VIN numbers? What about the unique date stamps and body features unique to specific car models and production dates? As a seller, yes, I would disclose any reproduction parts I have on a car I was selling, just like I would anything else that I thought would educate the buyer about the condition of the car and its history. Did you have any additional research on NCRS rules regarding use of reproduction parts to share with us (other than seat covers, which you are ok with for some reason)? Unkle, maybe you didn't realize that I was commenting on the fact that the original poster lives in Georgia, which I believe is still part of the US, hence my comments about US law and what would be correct for his car. However, after rethinking my comments, you have changed my opinion. I think all sales of reproduction and used throttle knobs into "the Great White North" should be banned, least they potentially devalue your very rare original .-Mike

Unkle, I still don't agree with you on this, so maybe we just need to "agree to disagree". You go back to the original post about the throttle knob and that reproduction parts will be "passed off as the real deal" in a show. To be correct, no car that was sold in the US should have a throttle lever at all ...they were all supposed to be removed before being delivered, due to US laws, so someone would need to prove that a throttle was delivered with their car (with photos or some other documentation that their car somehow slipped by with it). Two of my low VIN cars had evidence that the throttles were removed - they still had the small plastic grommet in the notch at the top of the accelerator pedal. I purchased and reinstalled a used throttle set up in one car (HLS30-00032). If I go to a national car show, I would expect to get dinged for that whether I have a Nissan knob or a reproduction. Heck, by the current rules, I would have to strip off the dealer installed 240z stripe from a car or get dinged, let alone show up with a throttle control!! So back to your problem with using reproduction early parts... If a part is indistinguishable from an original part, who cares (except you I guess)? If a judge can't tell the difference on close inspection, why should someone be dinged for having an excellent reproduction? Because they didn't spend as much as someone who bought a NOS or used part on ebay? The reason people make the reproductions is to have a part that is not available any other way and to improve the quality of all of our cars by making more of them as restored with the correct parts as possible (see definition above). They are not to try to put one over on someone. I don't see how the example of the reproduction seat covers above is any different than a reproduction red dot mirror knob for a car that should have one. If you have done more "research" into NCRS rules regarding use of reproduction parts, please share with the rest of us. -Mike

Here is some relevant guidance from the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) regarding use of reproduction parts and it is consistent with my opinions. Source - http://www.ncrs.org/awards.html. DEFINITIONS OF COUNTERFEIT vs. RESTORATION NCRS does not consider the restoration or replacement of components as counterfeit as long as the intent is to restore the car to its former or original state as it left the factory. To make this perfectly clear, read the following definitions from Webster's Dictionary and the accompanying examples. RESTORE: "To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state". For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are not considered counterfeiting: -Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint. -Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior. COUNTERFEIT: "To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud". For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting: -Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color. -Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior. -Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine. -Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original.

Will, VIN plates (especially the firewall VIN etching) make a low VIN car, not early parts, no matter how many of them you add. I agree with limiting access to VIN plates, but nothing else. Should we also limit sale of JDM parts for fear that someone will try to pass off a modified non-JDM car? If someone with a later car wanted to add a few early parts because they like the look, shouldn't that be ok? Similar to someone with a US car that wants to add certain JDM only parts that they like? -Mike

That should be a good thing, shouldn't it? More people will have more original looking cars, if they chose too. By the way, a good chromer should be able to fill the hollow Z's on later pot metal emblems to look like the ealier style "chrome Z" emblems. -Mike

Chris, The bases are exactly the same on both the plastic knob and the later pot metal one. The latch orientation is determined by the notch on the back of the knob. It is in a different location on the plastic and the pot metal knobs. The repros that Bryan made are exactly like the plastic originals, except the chrome is a higher quality and will last much longer. The red dot knobs are only correct for early cars (1969 production, maybe some very early 1970's) with the earlier thinner mirror stalks. A red dot knob on a later 1970, even with the early mirror stalk would not be correct, nor would it be correct for the later style mirror stalk used on later cars. -Mike

Unkle, I don't see what the problem is with using reproduction parts, if they are correct for your car and look as good as originals, they should be judged based on how they look, not who made them. If I didn't have an early car, I wouldn't put early parts on it. The goal, to me, is to make the car as close to original as possible, even if that means using reproduction parts. If you have an early car and the plastic gas knob breaks, or was broken long ago by a prior owner, shouldn't you be able to put an original style knob on it to maintain the original look? Same with the red dot knob on the mirror, hood bumpers, etc. Where do you draw the line on using non-Nissan parts? Can a car be repainted with non-Nissan paint? Can you rechrome your bumpers with non-Nissan chrome? If you put aftermarket seals on your car that are in the original style, would you feel the need to point that out to a judge at a show? I really don't care much about shows and judges any way. I just want to build the most original car that I can. -Mike

How about this one Carl? http://www.montrosetrailers.com/gallery/automobile_trailers/MVC_014F It was advertised in the latest Haggerty magazine I got yesterday. Not sure what the pricing is like. -Mike

That's what I would do too Arne, but it seems like I have seen many cars at national conventions or MSA where people intentionally leave the sticker on, like it is supposed to be that way. Here is a picture of the first in class stock 240z at the 2005 national convention. This car is supposed to be a survivor with 23,000 miles a (7/70), yet it has the sticker still on the radiator cap. -Mike