rdefabri

Anyone have a copy of February 2002 issue of Classic & Sports Car Magazine? There's an article titled "The Joy of Six" that pits the 240Z against the Porsche 911 and the Ferrari Dino 246. I thought I had it, can't find it. Perhaps someone has a pdf of the pages?

Well, I am an owner, so I guess I can trash a little But understand, I am not trashing the Z - only answering the man's question - it's my opinion that it's hard to sell an original, early Z that's not a full-on resto or a warm climate car. A car like his - one that needs work - is a tougher sell. There's still plenty of them around to warrant the depressed pricing and limited market. However, I agree with you that in in time less will be available, and there will be a better ratio of "good" ones to "needs work" ones to justify the appreciation in price. He won't sell it here because we all think it's "overpriced". He won't sell it to some kid, who would rather not take the risk. Therefore, one could conclude that it's harder to sell a car like that, in that condition.

Hahah! I wish I was drinking! I know that's a controversial statement - it's sort of hard to articulate it, because I am a guy that feels Z's could be/will be extremely desirable in the very near future. It's more an observation - think of who might buy an Opel GT. It's not going to be a collector like the people at the Monterey Historics. Nor is it going to be some kid that wants a "tuner" car (e.g., Civic, Focus, etc.). Nope, the Opel buyer will likely be someone that likes Opels - someone pretty into them in fact. While the Z is higher on the food chain, and there are probably more Z lovers than Opel lovers, it's the same paradigm. Contrast that to a Corvette or my E-Type. I could sell that E-Type to a little old lady that could care less about cars - that's how desirable the car is. It transcends the Jaguar "club" and has broader appeal. My comments were just about that - the Z still appeals to a more focused group (albeit broader than Opels, for sure). My own experience with trying to sell my Z sort of validates this in my mind.

Holy crap! That's a killer idea - thanks for the tip!

Some good responses here - but to answer your question directly, I'd say "Yes" - it is hard to sell an original 240Z. Here's my take on why - who is your target customer? If it's a 20-something looking for something cool and quick - Honda Civics are in this range and they're a little easier to get parts for. If it's a collector that doesn't have specific knowledge or interest in Z's beyond the basic - they'll generally bite for more "exotic" machinery. I put my Z up for sale twice - nary a bite. My E-Type isn't even for sale and I get offers all the time (!) If it's a hardcore Z fanatic, then you see from the posts here - they'll (correctly) scrutinize the car and know every issue/cost/time to restore it, so likely not going to buy unless it's a screaming deal. As I mentioned, I had mine up for sale twice - both times cheaper than your asking price, and I'd say my car is in slightly better shape than yours. I couldn't understand the issue, but after thinking about it, it became clear that it doesn't have enough mass market appeal, and the hardcores know what they are buying. Time may change this as we are seeing a swing towards classic Japanese machinery. I caught the "Car Crazy" show that had Ron Carter's BRE replica, and one of the participants at the Monterey Historics mentioned the value that classic Japanese cars have as collectibles. I thought it was a nice plug and evidence that it's changing. For reference, this guy was driving a classic Alfa from the war/pre-war era. Probably a $1M car, and he's talking about Japanese cars...that should tell you something. I am certainly a big proponent of the Z and it's significance in auto history should not be taken lightly. However, I think the early 240s (especially in average shape) are only somewhat better than Triumphs, Opel GTs, Saab Sonnetts, etc in terms of desirability, but not much. You really need to sell to someone that is/was like me when I bought - I was pretty hardcore about Z's, but out of the game for 20+ years. I was hungry for an original 240Z (any year) but not a trailer queen, and I was not a recent owner, so I didn't have current data or any reference beyond the Z I owned 20 years prior. I paid a decent price, but not a great price, and I was ok with that. The car runs and drives and it's in good shape, especially for an East Coast car, so I got what I paid for. The guy I bought it from was in the mid-South, he had the car on this board for probably 3 months at least. If I were you, I'd advertise locally in something like the Auto Shopper (which you have in NYC). The Auto Shopper allows you to provide a pic, and it's fairly local, which helps subliminally sell the Z on the East Coast value prop. Forget eBay, as the value there is opening up your ad to a broader range of eyeballs, but most warm climate buyers have a better selection, so it hurts you in terms of price. BTW, I was born in Brooklyn - where abouts are you?

Unfortunately, he'll have a hard time getting a job like that since they'll know he'll bolt when he finds something better. About 6 years ago, I lost my job. Little over a year earlier, I had just purchased a 2000 Nissan Maxima SE with a 5-spd. I had a 5-month old child, so the car had to go and my wife went back to work. If you don't have kids, it's hard to understand, but Rockr69 has the right attitude - it's really just a car. Dude, I've been there - much luck to you. Hopefully, you are in a line of work that lends itself to easy employment.

My first Z was a '76 280Z - I loved it. It had nicer lines than the '77/'78 models, although I did like the interior on the '77 (didn't have the raised deck IIRC, nicer gauges). My 280Z met it's demise around 1988, when I was driving home from college in snowy weather. I slid, hit a curb and broke the front passenger frame rail. The car was green with a beige interior - it ripped too, I had some work done to the head, nicer cam - pulled a 15.7/15.8 in the quarter mile, which was pretty good for that car.

I did not feel attacked. We all recognize that politics (and religion) tend to polarize opinions and foster debate.

Well said - and until we can shrink a nuclear fusion reactor down to engine size, there will continue to be false hopes placed in vehicles such as these.

DUDE - READ WHAT I WROTE!!!! I never SAID Iraq had ANYTHING to do with 9/11. I suggested that it's no coincidence that Iran is sandwiched by Afghanistan and Iraq - nothing else. Consider the parallels to US forces' occupation of West Germany post-WWII.

Defined as by Webster's it means "holy" or "sacred". But, it can be used to identify certain things based on their importance or symbolism. Since many of our founding fathers supported the creation and building of the White House, and as John Adams (first President to reside there) wrote - " pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this House, and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof." Many important people that helped form this great nation walked those halls - the list, IMHO, is awe inspiring. So is it "hallowed" as a church? No, you are correct. Is it "hallowed" as a symbol of the brave men and women who died so that we could live free? Absolutely... On this we agree - I started to type as much in my response. I really don't care anymore that Clinton did what he did - it's past and it's over. I was making the point that in general, both civilian and in Government, we've become apathetic about what we have and how we got here. Amen.

You're kidding, right? I could care less whether or not other Presidents have done similar things - that's speculation unless there's proof. My issue is less about what he did, and more about the questionable decisions he made in his personal life. Make questionable decisions in your personal life means you have a high probability of doing so in your professional life. And so he did, using Secret Service agents / police to run cover for him while on trysts - that's jeopardizing his being and the Nation's security - that's the tip of the iceberg. There's a laundry list on that guy, don't take my word for it. Not sure what to make of this, but don't lump me in with what you perceive as "challenges" - nor am I distracted, as you say. I am more than politically articulate AND politically involved, middle aged and quite educated, thank you. And while we're at it, if we are so invested in the status quo, burying your head in the sand and hoping it all goes away isn't the right attitude. It's so shallow and obvious to say we've propped up foreign governments due to oil. Is it part of the reason? Yes, absolutely - but we aren't invading Venezuela and they provided upwards of 15% of US oil. You can think we've stepped in Iraq due to our lack of alternative energy sources (of which I support - nuclear fusion), but it's deeper than that. Is there any coincidence to the fact that Afghanistan and Iraq sandwich Iran? What do you perceive as the major threat to our country, and other developed nations around the world? It's certainly not Hugo Chavez. Was September 11, 2001 so long ago that we aren't recognizing the threats that exist to our country and our citizens? It's been said, those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it. I fear more people are forgetting past history.

Yours and mine Weasel - I thought mine was 918, it's 110...it's faded as Arne mentioned, almost orange. However, if you see 918 in person, it's more rust colored than red - that's the give away. From what I can see in the pic, you have 110.

Well, with a '66 E-type parked right next to my 240Z, it doesn't even get noticed in my own HOUSE let alone around the neigborhood. Like ZBane, I live in an upscale community - a few Ferraris, some old 'Vettes, oodles of AMG Mercs, etc. If I pull the Jag out, the crowds literally flock. If I pull out the Z, I may get a look, that's it. Doesn't matter much to me, I love the car no matter what!

My how the technology has changed! My 1967 CL/77 Scrambler is classified as a "dual sport" but riding that in the dirt (or sometimes on the road) is a more harrowing proposition!

Either of them would have my vote if they were GREEN and had 5 heads. The important pieces, to me, are the integrity and the gonads. We all know EVERY politico has some integrity issues, it's the nature of the role. But, it's nice to have someone that places a premium on it, e.g., isn't getting "smoked" in the hallowed halls of the White House by someone other than the First Lady....

3 and a 6 year old - both girls, cute as buttons...not Z heads though

Take all of this with a grain of salt - understand it's to give an idea, but doesn't mean in practicality it's truth. Case in point - I'd put my car in the "average" space. Minimal rust, runs ok, no real issues, needs an overhaul but it goes. I have a 1972 240Z. I put it on eBay not long ago and it barely cracked $3,900. I had it posted here for $5K obo, no inquiries. I live on the East Coast. As beandip noted, geographic location is a factor. A good car in California is more common than in NJ, so it would stand to reason that in NJ that car would command a premium over what it would in California. Big Oak's comment is spot on - it's only worth what someone will pay.

Ron, I previously owned 4 Harleys, all with drag pipes, so I have no issue with raising the dead!!! Thanks for the info!

The Gulf colored GT40 is P/1076 (I believe, I wasn't there though). Don't know about the other one there, but last year, there was another one - P/1025 driven by Shaun Lynn.

I have to agree with Carl (all though who the hell am I?!!! ) - the Z is slowly getting it's due. In fact, Nissan in general is - I recently saw a Nissan NPT-90 /91 for sale at $750,000. While this is a bit OT, a comparable GTP / prototype - outside of a Ferrari 333SP - would not be that high. This was a first class repro, but much of the value lies in it's significance and how Nissan dominated the IMSA GTP classes over Ford, Chevy, Jaguar, Porsche, Toyota, et al.

Yea, I had a few ringers in my class - maybe that's why I got owned...I pulled a 3rd in one race, so maybe I exaggerated a bit, but I was off the ringers' pace. I've played GPL, and a few others (MS CART Sim, and I have another modern F1 sim, can't remember name) - it's different than xBox or PS, I guess my point is I excel at any type of video game, usually with minimal practice. Perhaps when actually feeling the G's and the lateral forces from braking, handling, etc. it's a different paradigm...at least for me. Hey, the many Pros use video games as a way to practice, and I am barely an amateur, so you are on to something

Yea -good point, thanks - I shoulda known betta!

I saw a video on YouTube that I think is Ron Carter's BRE-Z replica? If so, what is under the hood that made it sound like that? If you guys are a fan of "Victory By Design", you are familiar with the awesome roar from the historic cars Alain de Cadenet wrings around. I swear, if I closed my eyes, that BRE-Z sounded exactly the same. My stock Z sounds like crap in comparison - my E-Type sounds so much cooler, but pales next the BRE-Z!

Can't believe I missed this post! Mark, my experiences with yours are similar - I'll explain. Preith - I see some value in video games, maybe to learn a track layout, and great for hand/eye. However, I'll beat most anyone in any video game (I take great joy in going to the local Target or Wal Mart, where an XBox or Wii is set up and rip some little snot-nosed kid a new one!) but when I went to get my SCCA license, not unlike Mark, I was OWNED. I've even drag raced pretty competitively, and have ridden a motorcycle since I am about 7 years old (I am 39 now), so I know ocular techniques. I thought I'd kick arse, and I was mid pack to rear. It came down to the hardest thing for a non-racer to do, IMHO - braking. If you aren't used to the braking power/capability of a race car, especially an open-wheeler, it's hard to adjust. The only way to acclimate yourself to the braking and the proper brake zones, touch, heel/toe, hitting the apex, etc. is seat time. I am convinced that if I had a year or so in a FF or FC, I'd adjust and do well. Heck, I think anyone would. Of course, my age and having children may make me a tick slower as I fully understand the consequences, but my experience shows (at least in my case) that the video game didn't help much. It's all good - I had fun and that's what mattered. It's been about 6 years since I went to the school, but I just don't have the funds to run (is that a surprise?). One day, I'll get there!