$30,000 Datsun 240z's....Get yours before it's too late

[Carl Beck]

In Japan people around 50 to 60 years old lead the pricing for vintage cars.What will happen 20 years later ? Only few enthusiasts will be remaining.The price range for Zs will be going down in 20 years.

kats

Hi Kats:

The Fairlady Z's in the US will usually sell for about 75% to 80% of the value of a like condition, US Spec. 240-Z. Very understandable that people want cars they can drive - on the correct side of the road ;-), from the correct side of the car ;-)

Given that about 3% of the 240-Z's produced, were sold in Japan, it is also understandable that being far more rare - their value would be higher than the US or Left Hand versions there. We don't know what percentage of the 240-Z's sold in Japan were 240-ZG's.. but it has to be a very limited number and again, it is understandable that they would command a higher price as well.

Given the very limited number of 432's produced, the even more limited number of them remaining - and given the "neat" factors involved - I'd expect them to always command prices of at least two to three times the value of the regular production cars.

So your view of the market in Japan seems very reasonable to me at this point.

I'd have to agree that $60K USD is a bit high - when you can buy a Vintage Z in the US for $40K. It doesn't cost $20K to ship a car to Japan. "not selling" might also be a matter of the owner not really "Selling" the car - not advertising it properly nor promoting it properly etc. No Classic Car should be considered as a very liquid asset. It can take months and months to put a buyer together with a seller of any Special Interest or Classic Car.

If your logic related to age/time and a cars depreciation were correct - then we should see the prices for all Classic Cars from the 40's and 50's going down in value now. We don't. We see all very desirable models of Classic Cars appreciating at reasonable rates.. from the 40's, 50's and 60's.

Any discussion of the present and future "values" of "Classic Cars" has to be within the context of normalized dollars - ie. you have to factor out the inflation/deflation of the currency and hold values to constant units. If you do that, and you look at the buying/selling prices for most true Classic Cars - over time they hold their value, and/or appreciate at reasonable rates...

The example of using a Model A roadster, really isn't applicable. While the Model T's and A's have always been interesting parts of automotive history - there is simply nothing "Classic" about them in the sense of the word meaning "of timeless beauty".

Let me say that again for emphasis - "OF TIMELESS BEAUTY". Apply that definition to any Classic Car - and you will find that the cars that fit that definition - have always appreciated in value over time. Generation after Generation of car enthusiasts desire the beautiful lines of the real Classic Sports/GT's..

With growing populations of people world wide - there are growing numbers of automobile enthusiasts - at the time that there are an ever more limited number of true Classic Sports/GT's available. In the past 12 years alone, 400,000,000 Chinese have gained Middle Class standards of living... Just 40 years ago - a very small percentage people in Japan, could dream of owning a high powered, large, Sports GT... Let alone own one for purely pleasure use.

I believe that your investment in both the Datsun 240-Z and the Fairlady Z 432 are very sound, and over the next 20 years you will see that value grow steadly over the long term. Even if there are short term up's and down's....

The Datsun 240-Z changed the world's opinion of the Japanese Auto Industry, it will always hold a significant place in automotive history - but more importantly - the Z is Of Timeless Beauty....

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Ron Carter]

Well put Carl, I have always looked at the vintage car market as a parallel to the fine art market, as they are similar in many ways.

I want to comment on the individuals who have brought the Datsun 240Z to prominance in the USA. Many of these individuals are getting up there in age and I think it is time as a community that we start paying attention to these mavericks as they have a limited time among us.

Ron

[hls30.com]

Carl,

I have been trying to say that since kats posted-thinking about all day-thanks for putting better than I could come up with-and faster!

Ron

I like the way you think! There isn't much time left to do something, or something will never be able to be done.

Will

[deadflo]

Here's a link to some Fairlady auctions going on now in Japan. Note some of the prices for the 240-ZG's on this page (there are a few more pages with other S30's).

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://list1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/2084022959-category-leaf.html

Pretty cool looking cars!

I dont know what the conversion rate is offhand, but the asking price is as high as 4 million Yen.

[deadflo]

Latest exchange rate 3 million yen equals a little over 29 thousand dollars.

[Carl Beck]

4 Million Yen = $38,974.96 USD

[HS30-H]

The Fairlady Z's in the US will usually sell for about 75% to 80% of the value of a like condition, US Spec. 240-Z.

I'd like to see the data that you can present to support that statement - with the emphasis on "like condition". The vast majority of Japanese market S30-series Zs that I have seen being hawked around for sale in the USA over the years have looked misunderstood, messed-with and generally pretty decrepit. It is hard to shake off the impression that most of them arrived in the USA as opportunistic purchases travelling on a free transportation ticket ( I call 'em 'GI Brides' ), and were hardly the creme-de-la-Kremlin in their home country when they were purchased. There are of course the odd exceptions, but 'like condition' I'd like to see proof of. Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that you are only talking about stuff that is right at the bottom end of the market anyway.

Given that about 3% of the 240-Z's produced, were sold in Japan, it is also understandable that being far more rare - their value would be higher than the US or Left Hand versions there.

Hang on - let me say that out loud to myself to see if it sounds any more logical: ....."Given that about 3% of the 240-Z's produced, were sold in Japan....". No, sorry. It doesn't.

I don't know if your 3% figure is supposed to represent just '240Z' models ( ie - are you including just models with the '240Z' moniker tacked onto them, and ignoring brothers and sisters that wore other badges? ), but I still don't see how your statement can make any sense either way...... Think about it.

LHD export market '240Zs' are not cheaper in Japan than the domestic models because they were made in greater numbers. The re-imported LHD cars are rarer in the main part of the Japanese market ( of course! ). The reason they are generally changing hands for less money in Japan than the domestic models is because they are not very popular there. Simple.

Special interest items like the 'Vintage Z Program' cars are exceptions - and I don't blame the Japanese owners of such cars to stick high prices on them if they feel that way inclined ( good luck to them I say ) - but overall the LHD cars are not very sought-after in Japan. It has nothing to do with quantities originally manufactured.

[HS30-H]

Here's a link to some Fairlady auctions going on now in Japan. Note some of the prices for the 240-ZG's on this page (there are a few more pages with other S30's).

Pretty cool looking cars!

I dont know what the conversion rate is offhand, but the asking price is as high as 4 million Yen.

Yahoo auction asking prices are not necessarily the best guides to average prices, and both of those cars look like what you might call 'Resto Mod' examples to me ( ie - often a fair few points lower priced than the best ) but nonetheless, the car on the left has a start price of 4.5 million Yen, and the red one on the right has a reserve of 4.75 million Yen.

"As high as 4 million" isn't correct, is it?

Take a peep at some of the prices the better respected specialist dealers in Japan are asking for them.

[zcarlady1]

Mally, would you be able to send me that article???

[conedodger]

Hi Carl,

Not sure if you will remember me. I was a member of the IZCC with a member number of like 3250 or so... I had a website called PlanetZ with a couple how-to things and a few pictures of my car. I have been sort of absent for a few years while I finished my PhD.

I have a 1973 240Z now. I am the second owner. The first was an enthusiast and the car has in his words "just about everything that Nissan Motorsports makes". I have painted it in its original white and will be spending the summer replacing the interior panels with the reproduction stuff. It is mechanically very strong but I will be "de-tuning" it. It has the 2.4 block with an E31 head and triple Webers, Nissan Motorsports headers, original 4 speed, into an R200 with Nissan Motorsports LSD. The suspension is way too stiff for my 'softening with age' tastes so that will be returned to rubber if I can find it.

Nice to see you are still around the Datsun Z. I always appreciated your expertise.

Rob Sime

[NissanMaster]

Ron, Your Right,the BRE & BSR connection was a huge success for Nissan. The positive energy these legends put into the 240z is rarely seen in racing.

[bpilati]

The first person to send me a certified bank check for $50K gets mine. Hurry before someone else gets it.