240z Crackfree dash on e-bay

[7277]

I've had three Series I dashes shipped... all three were destroyed in shipping. You wouldn't believe the hassles trying to get the insurance company to pay... takes years...

FWIW

Carl B.

shame on the seller for not packing it with enough padding....

[DougN]

I bought an uncracked dash (with all gauges, radio, etc.) for my former '72, and had it shipped to me from Newfoundland! The seller packed it really well, and made a wood crate for it. I was worried about it going through all the temp changes on it's way to me in Atlanta, but it survived with no issues. Unfortunately, it was pricy, but overall it was worth it not to have big cracks in the dash ruining my wonderful driving experience

[Carl Beck]

They were all beautifully packed... the shippers crushed the containers. One was wood framed, plywood exterior. Dash wrapped in bubble wrap, then packed inside at least four inches of packing peanuts on all sides.

It looked like the container was dropped from a great height, and landed on one corner.. the "shock" made the dash flex inside the container, and it cracked right in the middle... big wide crack.

Another was packed just fine - lots of padding, lots of packing peanuts.. The cardboard container looked like they had sat an entire shipping container (truck trailer type) on it. It crushed the box, and the dash inside..

[Sailor Bob]

I was bidding up to 600 on the subject of this thread and meant to up my max bid, but got distracted with a family gettogether. It looked like a very good buy - but as you are discussing, I was concerned about it being shipped. The vendor described it as plyable - but these things are 35 - 39 years old.... disappointed but not heartbroken.

Doug - did you buy that from a certain Mr. Philips?

[MikeW]

I was worried about it going through all the temp changes on it's way to me in Atlanta, but it survived with no issues.

Yes, but what shipping company did you use? Some of them can't be trusted you know ...

[xray]

yikes...

Carl, if you can't get reimbursed for THAT kind of damage without the hassle you experienced, I'd hate to go through more "minor" issues with them. I'm even more thankful now that mine arrived in one piece back in 2005...paid $500 then, so $600ish is a fair price.

[Poindexter]

They were all beautifully packed... the shippers crushed the containers. One was wood framed, plywood exterior. Dash wrapped in bubble wrap, then packed inside at least four inches of packing peanuts on all sides.

It looked like the container was dropped from a great height, and landed on one corner.. the "shock" made the dash flex inside the container, and it cracked right in the middle... big wide crack.

Another was packed just fine - lots of padding, lots of packing peanuts.. The cardboard container looked like they had sat an entire shipping container (truck trailer type) on it. It crushed the box, and the dash inside..

OMG, what a nightmare! Can't you refuse such an obviously damaged shipment? And can you tell us which shipper, so we can be wary? I haven't had to (luckily) pursue a claim against any shipper yet. (knock, knock)

And I wonder about the shipping damage coverage some credit cards provide...

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

There are a lot of "issues" with the insurance coverage on items shipped, and it depends on who or what shipping/insurance company you are dealing with. It would take several pages to outline the grief of the entire process, in all cases.

1. In two of the three cases - AIR - AirBourne/Fed-X it is the "shipper" that is insured, not the person receiving the shipment. (even though in most cases it is the receiver that pays for insurance) That means that whoever you purchased the item from, has to deal with the insurance forms and process. That means that once you have paid for an item, the seller has your money and really no great incentive to focus on recovering it from the insurance company, then returning it to you. This dash is a good example... there is only one... and if it gets damaged in shipment... you have to supply proof of damage on your end, hold the item for inspection, be there when THEY want to inspect it etc. Then you have to push the seller to do his part on his end... This may or may not be a problem, depending on the seller.

2. YOU have to provide PROOF of Purchase, prove that the item can not be repaired, supply an invoice for the replacement item if it can be replaced. ( I was very lucky that I had a friend at a Nissan Dealership's Parts Dept. that would send me an invoice for a new Dash - along with a letter from the Service Manager stating that there was no repair available for a dash - it was a replacement item only - most people are not going to be able to get that paperwork).

All the document gathering and submission is on your time.. and they usually either reject the claim the first time, or return with more requirements for farther documentation. If it is a private seller of an unusual item, with what they consider an unusual price - then they require that the seller submit a notarized statement of value etc. Then you start dealing with a Claims Adjustor that offers to settle for less than the insured value - when you refuse to that - your claim goes into a black hole somewhere..

On the third dash - I arranged both pick-up and delivery - Thinking that I'd avoid the hassle of trying to get the seller to do all the paperwork on his end, if anything happened. So in this case I was both the shipper and receiver. I had UPS pick the item up and deliver it. I was not home when they delivered and came home to find a crushed box left on the front porch.. The insurance company they use, simply did not have a process set up to handle claims where the same party was both shipper and receiver - I went round and round with them... It was an $850.00 claim, and they have a automatic $100.00 deductible (that they don't make clear when you purchase the insurance - but that's another story)...

Large retailers - have the funds or inventory to simply ship another item if your purchase is damaged and they deal with the insurance, or they self insure. It's the individual seller that sends a few things out - and has no cash reserve to return your money if something is damaged that presents the most risk to you.

Can you refuse a shipment? Yes, if you are there when delivery is made, and if you can catch the driver before he runs for his truck. The problem then becomes recovering your payment from the seller, because now you have no proof of damage to the item, you have no item and the seller has your money, plus the seller has proof of delivery for the credit card company etc.

Can you refuse a shipment? Yes - if you require a signature for delivery, leave a sign at your door that tells the shipper you will not accept delivery without a signature. Plus use only a credit card for payment. That way you only have to deal with your credit card company to get the charge reversed when delivery is not completed. But even then, if you refused delivery, or allowed it to be returned to the seller - they can/do charge large restocking fees.

Like I said above - a lot depends on who you are dealing with. I'd say that in general - shipping insurance is a racket. Anything like a 35+ year old dash - I'd only buy if I could see it at the sellers location and pick it up myself - or have a knowledgeable friend pick it up personally.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[DougN]

Fortunately, things have changed a little regarding package insurance. Now, at least at UPS, the reciever can file a claim, rather than in the old days when it had to be the shipper who handled the claim. They even allow you to do it online now. Also, neither UPS nor FedEx have ever had a "deductable" of $100 (which would imply you are responsible for the first $100). Rather, both offer up to $100 of insurance included in the cost of shipping. You pay an additional $.XX per each additional $100 you want to insure it for. If someone tells you different, they are not telling the truth.

Also, UPS nor FedEx charge any additional fees to return a damaged package to the shipper, that is also included in the rate. Also, if you receive a damaged package, you can call the carrier, and they will pick it up and return to the shipper. You are not required to keep the damaged merchandise. Depending on the situation, it may be easier to just have it returned to the shipper and get a refund for the purchase from the shipper, and allow them to deal with the carrier. This is especially true if you have not had experience in dealing with shipping claims. The majority of claims are denied due to poor packaging, and trying to overturn that decision can be a major headache. Interestingly, poor packaging can be caused by too little, or too much packaging material. A good rule to test if your package is packed properly is if you would feel comfortable dropping it on a corner from 3 feet high. If so, you have probably packed it sufficiently, if not, consult a professional

Also note that unless you (or the person you purchased the item from) take your shipment to an actual UPS or FedEx location to ship, you are not dealing directly with a carrier representative. While these folks may be excellent packers, you are now dealing with an outside company, who in turn, will end up dealing with the carrier in the event that shipper intervention is needed. This could be good if they offer their own insurance (they are responsible even if the carrier denies the claim), or bad, if they are just reselling the carrier's insurance. Also note that if you pay someone to pack your item, and it is damaged, you should be reimbursed by that person, regardless if the claim is approved or denied.

Note that if the carrier is paying the claim, they will end up coming to take away the damaged item - you do not get to keep it. This applies even if you did not pay for insurance, and they are only paying the $100 that is included in the shipping charges, regardless of the real value of the item. Both UPS and FedEx take these damaged items back to their own central location and sell them by the trailer load to the highest bidder.

Of course, your best bet is to ensure you fully understand the claims process (who files what, who pays what, recourse if the claim is denied, etc.) from whoever you hand your shipment to, the carrier or an independant shipping outlet, prior to handing them your package, or if a receiver and buying something like a dash, ensure that who is responsible for what prior to completing the transaction.

Edited September 16, 2008 by DougN

[Poindexter]

A lot of great information, as usual. I still would be concerned with the small business, or individual seller- as on spree-bay. They can hardly absorb any losses, additional expense or demands on their time. It appears that the process has changed markedly since I last looked at the fine print. That's why I vet my sellers VERY carefully on any worrisome purchase. And now I'll check more carefully on the small print for any shipper I use for incoming items from now on. I've known about the "bad packing" defense- that's why I have always used one of the licensed and bonded packers for any delicate items I'm sending out.

Luckily I love driving, so for picking up delicate items, I have been known to drive as far as Boston (from NJ) for something. Well, that was also with gas at $2.39, too. Then I'll always look for a great restaurant or tourist place to make the trip even more fun.

Having gotten rid of my 10mpg road-monster, and replacing it with a WVO/diesel-sipping wagon getting 30+ mpg highway, maybe I'll find a reason to do that again. I actually might be getting a windshield from Philly. Cheesesteaks, yum!

Edited September 16, 2008 by Poindexter

[Carl Beck]

Finally found a few pictures from the "shipping damage". I had lots of pictures, and put them on a Web Page while working the claims with UPS, FedEx and Air Bourne.

One NOS Dash was bubble wrapped and placed inside it's OEM Carton - than that carton was packed in another very strong box, with the shipper suggested 3 or 4 inches of packing peanuts on all sides. Two grown men could stand on any side of this outer box - without putting a dent in it.

The first picture shows the OEM container - as it was found inside the white outer box. Crushed!

When it was left on my front porch - the outer white box had obviously been crushed. I called the transport company (can't remember which it was for this one)... Told them about the package.. and they said to hold it there - and they would send an inspector out. Four or five days later he showed up, took pictures and gave me forms to fill out and mail in. That started the process.. and it was down hill from there..

Doug:

I'm sure you know the process as it is supposed to be handled.. per the company guidelines or written policy etc.

But I can assure you that none of this was that simple... and all of it was a complete hassle by corporate bureaucrats, trying to manage their numbers. (claims submitted vs claims paid/denied, total shipping loss for the quarter or whatever their performance was measured by.) NONE of them, at any company gave a damn if I was a satisfied customer or not. All of them treated the claim like it was a case of insurance fraud on my part)

I filled out the initial claim forms completely and correctly - after that it went downhill with what I considered unreasonable demands for ever more and more documentation, paperwork submissions and claims that were somehow "lost", and the process restarted..

Also - two of the three cases - they did not recover the damaged item, nor containers. They simply told me to dispose of it. In all three cases I had clear pictures of the damaged items, the damage to the containers, along with the packing materials used - and I also put all that on a Web Page for them to see. (seems that I have since purged those pages from the server). I did find the pictures below as a copy still in my "Sent Mail" files. I may be able to find some of the other two..

I can assure you that something weighing several thousand pounds had to be sat on top of that box to crush the outer container, the inner container and the dash itself.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Carl Beck

[Poindexter]

Kind of makes one imagine that this kind of ruination almost had to be done on purpose. I mean, does "Fragile" translate into "beat me" in another language?

And then to do it again to something made from wood and plywood, it boggles the mind. Damn, it makes me wonder how I can routinely get shipments of delicate tiles and stone slabs from halfway around the world- and safely. (of course it can't be from *more* than halfway around the world, now can it?)

What really bothers me the most, I think, is that some driver just tossed it on your porch and just drove away....fast I bet...thinking "maybe he won't notice".

Edited September 16, 2008 by Poindexter