mikewags Posted October 28, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2008 Recap: My starter is new, maybe only 2 or 3 weeks old. It's a 78' gear reduction starter in a '76 Z (covered all of this on the board).So, I'm driving to pick up some to-go food and head to my inlaws house. Car is running fine as I cross town, everything is good. I get there, eat, and upon leaving I find myself stranded.I put the key in and turn to start, dead silence. All i can hear is the fuel pump engaging. I checked the:1. Battery (full charge)2. Wiring to Starter - All Secure3. Fuses (n/a) Basically we push started the car and got it home. Upon getting it home, it started once; but then the 2nd attempt it failed again. When you turn the key, its just quiet. No crank, no nothing.What can this be? The Starter failing? Wiring? A relay?This all came out of nowhere, the car was starting and running great beforehand!Help! Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbane Posted October 28, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2008 This may be a bit of a long shot, but it happened to me...The spade connector on the starter solenoid has caused me issues in the past. What I had experienced was a bad connection from the spade not being inside the female portion. It was going in between the insulating sleeve and the connector, making a connection for a while, but eventually worked itself away (not out or visually disconnected) from the metal portion. I pulled it off, pried open the female side, reconnected (and made sure the solenoid side was indeed where it should be) and gently crimped the connection. Problem solved. Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcote75 Posted October 28, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 28, 2008 Should use a test light and a friend to turn the key to see at different connection if power is there. Start by the easiest which is the starter and go all the way up to the ignition key.I'm no expert but I think you could nail the probelm this way.Joce Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nissanman Posted October 28, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2008 The starter is probably OK. When absolutely nothing happens like this, it indicates that the starter solenoid is not operating, probably due to a faulty IGN switch or associated wiring. You can check if the starter is capable of doing the job by temporarily bridging the large battery terminal HT on the starter to the starter solenoid spade S terminal. This is what the IGN switch does anyway when you turn it to START. The starter should kick in and crank the engine. Make sure you are out of gear with handbrake ON, IGN switch OFF. Then, as mentioned, find out why the IGN switch doesn't do what it should. Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewags Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted October 28, 2008 I tested the spade connector. It was one of the first things i was suspicious of. I've crimped it like you said, but that is not it. There is a solid connection there. Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewags Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Ignition switch sounds like a potential culprit. Are there any associated fuses with the ignition switch (IE - something simple that can be checked before opening the ignition up to see if the problem lies within?)Are there any particular wires to keep my eyes out for with the ignition switch? (things that typically go bad with it)Thanks again all for the timely responses. Edited October 28, 2008 by mikewags Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScanlon Posted October 28, 2008 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2008 How old is your Ignition SWITCH (NOT the Lock)?The Switch is the electrical portion that resides BEHIND the Ignition LOCK and is what the tab on the back of the lock turns when the key turns. There have been several owners (myself included) that have discovered that the bakelite portion of the switch (the brown "plastic") will actually SHIFT when the switch gets actuated and thereby not making contact with the Start contact. I'm not saying that this is definitively the cause of your problem, but that this exact problem has had people looking at the Starter Wiring, Connections, Starter Relay etc all to correct the Switch's mis-connection. Take note that when removed from the back of the Ignition Lock and actuated on it's own, the switch seems to perform flawlessly... it isn't till you actuate it WITH the lock tab that you note the lack of total rotation needed to effect proper contact. That is what Nissanman's procedure will show you, that it is NOT the starter but the wiring connection to it. Before you go tearing everything else out, check the Switch.FWIWE Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewags Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted October 28, 2008 Will do, I will take a look at that tomorrow after work. I think that makes sense, considering how everything was fine before this abrupt issue. Are there any good schematics of the ignition switch? (FSM?) I guess once I take it apart, it'll all be pretty obvious. Thanks again guys. I'll keep you updated! Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblake01 Posted October 28, 2008 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2008 Too bad you're not closer. I've got a box with a few known to be good ignition swithches I'd let you try. Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScanlon Posted October 28, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 28, 2008 You won't need no "stinkin" schematics... The switch is attached to the back of the lock with screws. Remove those after removing the connector that connects directly to the switch. Once you have it off the lock, try to rotate the bakelite (the brown "plastic" portion) by holding onto the metal front piece. If there is more than a small amount of "slippage", it could be the cause of the problem. The bakelite rotating more than a few degrees can cause the internal contacts to just barely touch the start terminal. Over time the switch gets sparked and burnt enough that it cannot make proper contact to power the starter relay. You can try to disassemble the switch, but it may prove to be impossible to re-assemble it and have it be functional after cleaning it. FWIW E Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewags Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted October 28, 2008 So, given the switch is toasted - I'll have to purchase a new one...unless of course the issue is that it isn't connecting. Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblake01 Posted October 28, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2008 Here's a chart I made up a while back to test the ignition switch: Link to comment https://www.classiczcars.com/topic/29796-starter-doesnt-engage-out-of-nowhere/#findComment-264698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarb
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