Looking for some info on these cars

[280z4me]

I have always been a HUGE fan of the z model cars. 240-280z has been my dream car. Im considering getting a project off ebay in the very soon future but still have alot to learn!

I will go ahead and list some questions I have.

Do you guys keep the stock rear end or do you usually swap it out for a straight axle? Are engine swaps very popular on these cars or will the straight 6 push out alot more with little work? What do these cars run stock? How reliable are the stock trans? How many miles do you guys get out of the straight 6? What are the most common engine swaps? Are there any companies that sell body kits, flares, valence?

Also, This is a picture I found on the internet. Is this car stock minus the front valence or does it have fender flares?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

IT most definitely has fender flares...The stock valance is easy enough. He removed the vertical bumperettes and painted the bumpers flat black. Unlike some, this Z has had its flares blended in. Very tasteful if your into that.

WOW, you have a lot of questions there. I think a day or so on HybridZ.com will help you out. Yes they can be heavily modded cars. Swaps from RB series engines to V8s are all too common. The stock R180 diff found in the early Z's is plenty for an L24, but the R200 is much stronger, and can take the abuse from everything, even V8s. Most people do not removed the independent rear suspension for a solid rear axle, as most people like the way these cars drive. And a solid rear axle is not good for much other than drag racing.

The straight 6 is buildable, but like any 2 valve head its going to have limits in NA form. Like the old addage goes, "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go"

Any engine is capable of making much more power, if you wallet is deep enough. The stock 240Z engine had 150ish HP. That was good for a high 7 to low 8 second blast to 60. Not sure about the quarter which is what you were probably talking about. Do a search on 240Z stats and you will learn a lot.

The stock L24 is very reliable, in fact most L series engines are very capable of going 150000 miles with little wear. Anything I Missed...

Edited December 1, 2008 by Zedyone_kenobi

[280z4me]

That just about does it! If anyone else wants to add some helpful site, feel free!

One more! Now sure what years I want to look for. I love that picture! That is identical to what I want minus the red color. What year is that? Whats the body difference in 240 and 280z's?

[Friar-Tuck]

Here is a pretty quick "Primer".

Check it out :classic:

http://datsunzgarage.com/engine/

Tuck\o/

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I would say its either a late 71 - 73, hard to tell, as the hood has been switched out for a later 280Z hood with the dual hood vents.

[280z4me]

How interchangable are the parts from 240-280z's? Mainly exterior parts is what im refferring to bacuse I know the engines were different strokes/bores.

Are there any common engine swaps from newer model Nissans? Ive seen lots of swaps but mainly v8.

[blue 72]

You've got a lot of reading to do. Every last one of your questions has been answered either here or on Hybridz.org. There are many other sites on the 'net that can explain things very well and a few books pertaining to the subject at hand.

As far as exterior parts, most everything is interchangeable on the S30 chassis. Some exceptions include doors, side window glass and taillight panels. Suspensions, interior, electronics, transmissions and rearends changed more radically over the evolution of the cars.

Most popular engine swaps are Chevy small blocks, ford small blocks, Nissan RB 20,25,26,30 and SR20 plus the VG30 engines.

That's all I'm going to help right now because you've got lots of reading and researching ahead of you still.

[Six_Shooter]

And a solid rear axle is not good for much other than drag racing.

When this is said it always bothers me.

I've been in, around and seen MANY straight axles cars go around corners just as well or better than many IRS cars.

The set-up is important to making a suspension system work, that goes for both IRS and solid axle suspensions. You can set either up to work well or poorly for different uses.

I will be swapping a staight axle under my 240, likely next winter if I don't grenade the current IRS sooner. I will be doing this for a few reasons:

-Strength.

-Simplicity.

-Cost.

I can build and swap in a live axle that is stronger than any IRS set-up for less money and know it will work well and predictably. I will be drag racing with my car, but handling is also important to me as well, and will be setting up the suspension so that it will work in a straight line or around corners. I may need to change the way the suspension is set-up for each usage, due to different anti-squat needs between drag racing and late braking into a corner, but I will be building that into the link set-up that I end up using.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Fixed axle cars can be made to perform adequately around a bend or two, but there are caveats to that. First the road needs to be very smooth. As solid rear axles do not like to be upset in a corner, and second, the spring rates usually need to be pretty darn high and the car pretty low. Modern day solid axles (i.e. mustang) have somewhat complex linkages attached to try to solve some of these problems, but in the end an IRS is a far better choice for all out handling. Your priority is mainly drag racing, handling second. As is your choice with the solid rear axle indicates, and there is nothing wrong with that. But just to get all the facts on the table, if handling was your priority, then IRS is the way to go.

Generally you cant have it both ways, as one setup will compromise you in one direction or another. It sounds like you have your priorities straight and are building your car accordingly.

[Six_Shooter]

Fixed axle cars can be made to perform adequately around a bend or two, but there are caveats to that. First the road needs to be very smooth. As solid rear axles do not like to be upset in a corner, and second, the spring rates usually need to be pretty darn high and the car pretty low. Modern day solid axles (i.e. mustang) have somewhat complex linkages attached to try to solve some of these problems, but in the end an IRS is a far better choice for all out handling. Your priority is mainly drag racing, handling second. As is your choice with the solid rear axle indicates, and there is nothing wrong with that. But just to get all the facts on the table, if handling was your priority, then IRS is the way to go.

Generally you cant have it both ways, as one setup will compromise you in one direction or another. It sounds like you have your priorities straight and are building your car accordingly.

WRONG!!!

My priority IS handling, since the car will spend most of it's life on the street, and only go to 4 to 6 races a year, besides test and tune, in Drag racing form.

IRS is not the end all be all of handling, it's a way to make a suspension work for comfort IMO. My Malibu with IRS is much nicer to ride in than my Jimmy with a live axle, though the Jimmy has leaf springs as well. To make a more fair comparison, comparing my Malibu to a Mustang with a live axle, the Malibu is a little nicer ride, but there are other reasons for the comfort factor as well, the Malibu is a family the car the Mustang is a perfromance car.

Now the Mustang compared to the 240, guess what, I prefer the Mustang, I can better predict how it will accept my throttle input and how it will go around a corner, smooth or rough road. But why would I be pushing it hard on a rough surface? I drive on paved roads and tracks, not off road through rally events. And honestly after pushing my 240 a bit on some gravel roads around here, I still prefer the live axle, the 240 is a bit unpredictable, IMO.

Oh, you'd better tell those guys that race off road trucks at 100+ MPH that they had better swap to IRS, they will improve thier handling.

My choice of live axle is due to cost, and my prefence in driving feel and input. I can build a live axle that will be gauranteed to live through HARD launches with high 3 digit/low 4 digit (If I get that high) horse power, for probably less than half of what it would take to build an IRS to handle the same power, and the IRS would still weigh more, and be more of a compromise in my opinion than swapping to a live axle, believe me, I've looked into using IRS, not just in my Datsun, but in other projects I've had, and it always seemed to be more expense and work than it's worth.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Um, okay, you are entitled to your opinion, that's fine. But saying I am wrong in all caps is unfriendly and honestly, incorrect.

You prefer the feeling of a live rear axle. I respect that, and you have made that clear. That's your personal taste and by default is 100% correct for you. I am not trying to change YOUR mind. I am just stating that IRS is better for handling in any kind of on road performance driving. I never said you cannot drive a solid rear axle car fast around corners, its just not as good as an IRS. If you want proof, go to the top I always say.

Formula 1

LeMans

IRL/Champ Car

World Rally

All these teams with budgets the size of what we make in a lifetime have endless resources to build a car to compete. They all use IRS. If a live axle was better they would be using them. You have extremely limited camber control with a solid rear axle. The purpose of a suspension it to keep the tires contact patch on the ground throughout the suspension travel of the car, and an IRS can do that better than a live axle.

The SCORE BAJA trucks use a live axle mostly due to strength and heritage. Last I checked they were putting down over 700 HP and solid rear axle geometry has decades of research and development into it for off road trucks. Plus they can take one heck of a pounding. If I were to build an off road truck, I would stick with a solid rear axle myself. Its what fits there already, it works fine, why reinvent it.

I have had both in my lifetime as I grew up with powerful rear drive live axle cars. Its a preference thing. You prefer the live rear axle, I say have fun with it... but for all those reading and are considering this choice, know which setup has which strengths. Compare those to your budget, and make the right decision for you.

[Six_Shooter]

You are wrong, you said the reason I wanted to use the live axle was primarily for drag racing, which is completly incorrect. yes I will be drag racing with my car, but that's not it's primary function. If it was there would be no question on the type of suspension I would use, but at this point I'm weighing the pros and cons of the different types of suspension styles and how that will effect the final assembly of the car, so saying that you are wrong in all caps was not "incorrect".

LMAO, you still think that IRS is the BEST for handling, period, whihc is completly incorrect. Like I said, I've seen and been around live axle cars that flat out, out handled many IRS cars.

most of those cars you mentioned are mid engine/RWD, and to intall a live axle would be nearly impossible, due to the physical drivetrain layout. F1 has very little camber gain through the suspension geometry, but is used to allow each wheel to move independantly over the burms they are frequently hitting, and again, physical fitment around the transaxle makes IRS more feasible. But debating whether these cars or the champ cars, or other mid engine car would benefit from a solid axle could never be answered, there just isn't enough space.

To keep repeating the old idea that IRS is the only suspesion design to use to make a car to handle is thinking that is stuck back when these cars were first built, back in the '70s, on top of that, the IRS that is stock in these cars is a cheap design and is shy it was used. There is too much camber gain as the suspension moves through it's travel, to really be effective, to keep within a good point of the circle of traction. So in order to get a good handling IRS, you'll still need to swap to a different design, one that uses two controls on each, and upper and a lower to reduce the camber gain. Yes that's been done, but seems like a whole lot of work just to keep a rear end that is still going to break. The torque multiplication of the diff puts a lot of stres on the universal/CV joints, and can break when driving the car hard through corners.

Your statement is far to blanket and completly incorrect, about live axles not performing as well as IRS. Both designs have worked well and poorly, and that's what you're wrong about, just because something has an IRS, does NOT autmatically make it superior to a live axle equipped car.