Black Dragon

[IdahoKidd]

So what is the deal with Black Dragon? I ordered a couple of things from them last night but almost rarely is there any conversation or reference here about them. Good place, not so good place, direct competitor to a prefered vendor? I am preparing 3 Z's at the same time and don't want to end up with a major heartache.

Leonard

[Arne]

Bear in mind that I'm just one single person, and my opinion is based on only my own experiences. Those experiences are not just with Zs, but date back 15-20 years to my MG restoration. Black Dragon is a division of Long Motor Co.: they sell Z and RX7 parts as BD; MG, Triumph and Sunbeam parts as Victoria British; and Chevy/GMC and Ford pickup parts under the LMC name. Maybe others makes by now as well.

As with my MG before, I've found that it is virtually impossible to buy all the parts that a Z might need from a single source. So there is a place for BD in the supplier world.

But in my experience, BD is far less likely to have anything that other places won't have, as they are primarily an aggregator and reseller. The parts they sell are more likely to be generic parts that fit more than one make, and the parts that they carry that are specific to Zs are generally third-party aftermarket parts. They will generally be serviceable, and may possibly be a bit cheaper than a part for the same application from a different vendor, but may not look or fit exactly like the originals. The same third-party parts are often available from local parts houses, and often for similar prices. But it can be hard to find people knowledgeable enough to help you find them locally, so having a simple catalog from BD does have its place.

As for doing business with them, if you can accept the more generic parts they sell, they generally seem to be an ethical place to do business. If you aren't happy with a part on arrival, they have generally been easy to deal with on returns. Don't expect any knowledge on the part of the phone order-takers - I've read an interview with the owner where he stated point-blank that he won't hire phone people that know cars as that encourages chit-chat on the phone and slows production.

So no, I doubt you'll get hurt buying from them, as long as you aren't expecting Nissan or OE-quality parts from them.

[IdahoKidd]

Good info and thanks. I haven't yet learned all the places to buy and the stuff I did order was trivial stuff that really didn't matter all that much (ie, rubber throw out arm cover, etc) Is there a sticky (or whatever it might be called) that lists vendors and the general types of products they might sell? I know I have a couple of bookmarks such as Arizona Z Car, Motorsports, and I guess that is about it. I will be needing a complete white interior for example. Where do I start looking?

Thanks!

Leonard

[cbudvet]

Leonard,

I just got my order from them yesterday. I had ordered a bunch of small parts for the hood and rear hatch (dovetails, screws, etc.) I found the people on the phone very courteous and helpful. The parts came fairly fast. There were actually some genuine Nissan parts! I was surprised to see these as most things from them are aftermarket parts. I agree with everything that Arne said. I think they are a good source for some parts, maybe not the best for others. Good luck with everything.

carl

[mazingerz1976]

I have ordered a couple of pieces from BD and also from MSA for the 280ZX and they are fine, the parts came fast and in good shape.

But if you guys know another source of parts for the HS130 could you please let me know it?

[FastWoman]

My experiences with BD are about the same as those expressed above. They've been a good source for aftermarket parts. I have only two mildly negative experiences:

I ordered a remote door lock set that was purported to fit ANY 240/260/280. When I went to install it in my '78, there was no place I could mount the servos without custom manufacturing some somewhat complicated linkages. I returned the kit, and they were happy to take the return. I told them there was no way to fit the thing in a '78, and they did not care to correct their claims that the kit would fit ANY 240/260/280.

I ordered an EGR valve from them. It was a generic valve with an S30 style base to it. It came with a bag of a few dozen orifice washers and a cross-reference list between the original part numbers from numerous manufacturers and the type of orifice washer to use. I did not have the original part number and couldn't put my fingers on it easily. Therefore I called BD for this information. They flat-out couldn't provide it. I eventually found the PN, but not with their help. They were very friendly and sympathetic, but unable to help. If I had asked to return the EGR, I have no doubt they would have processed the return.

[Diseazd]

I've never had a bad experience at BD.......It's a great place to buy nuts and bolts .... and they're well illustrated. MSA is still my favorite vendor if I can't find something at Nissan (always my first choice). If you're a member of a Z club, MSA will set up a permanent auto discount of 10%. Over the years that can really add up!

[Richard Oben]

I live close to BD and have an HAZCC discount. The catalog is great the parts are OK but more times than not I am not happy with what I got. I got boots for the rack, they did not fit. I was going to replace fenders even though mine were pretty good, easily distracted by new parts. The new fenders were going to take more work than the ones I had. I got a brake booster from them and it was crap and did not fit. To this day I have a credit with them and have not found a use for it yet. Like others have said the parts are the parts they list but some of the stuff is not up to what wanted. I have not done any of the small part stuff with them.

I have had better luck with MSA generally and they are almost 2000 miles away. JMHO, YMMV, cheers Richard.

[ajmcforester]

I have not been impressed with them for Z parts, now for my 87 Ford Ranger they where great if the autopart store didn't have it for the Ranger they did, or it was a typical part to get at the junk yard.

With the Z every part I've gotten from them did not fit right and was sent back, they do get a little hard to send things back after the 15 time. However this was when I used MSA and I was using Black Dragon for what I could not find with MSA.

I don't use MSA since they didn't pay shipping charges like they said they would, when they sent me a radiator with the mounting brackets mounted backwards. That was when they were going threw some changes, it was a mess with them then. I was on the phone with every order I made around that time, because they had something shipped wrong, wrong parts sent out, missing parts . . . I hope they are better now and if they ever pay me shipping the can have my business back, it has been over 2 years now.

Since I don't use them I have found some of the other distributors out their to be good part sources even though I occasionally pay more.

[IdahoKidd]

Hey ajmforester, can you give a list of other suppliers you may have used? Competition is a good thing and choices are even a better thing.

[cbudvet]

Here are some of the ones that I have used. Lets see, there is the Z barn, z car source, z car connection (for SS bolts), Banzai motorworks, Datsun Spirit, and Zedd Findings. Also, Courtesy Nissan (I haven't used yet but hear great things). I shop ebay quite a bit. RedDat has gotten a lot of bad press here for high prices but never used him. Be careful for shipping costs on ebay. A lot of people will make the profit on the shipping and it can add up. Good luck with the search.

carl

[zcar70]

I did a complete restoration of my '70 240Z from October 2006 to June 2008 and used many sources to obtain parts for the job. In no particular order of preference, here is my 2 centz:

MOTORSPORT AUTO: Great inventory, knowledgeable reps, very helpful with information, many Nissan genuine parts, good prices. They do not have everything in stock at times and backorders can be slow, standard 10% Z club discount, fast shipping. Great at returns/exchanges. Good customer service. Never had a problem with them.

BLACK DRAGON: Easy to reference catalogue, good supply of most commonly used items, good selection of aftermarket items, not so knowledgeable staff (they merely take your order), no Z club discount, fast shipping.

Z CAR CREATIONS: Great product (Stainless steel fastener kits specific to Z Cars), personal customer service, decent price.

NISSAN DEALER: I obtained many genuine Nissan parts directly from my local dealer's parts department. You'd be surprised what is still available from the factory.

ZEDD FINDINGS: Charlie Osbourne makes the best replacement floor pans and frame rails out there, PERIOD. Friendly service, extremely fast shipping. www.datsunzparts.com

COURTESY NISSAN: Still has many parts for older Zs, hit and miss with supply, fast shipping, knowledgeable staff.

ROCKAUTO.COM : A auto parts clearing house on the web. Great selection of aftermarket parts. Great source for common mechanical replacement parts, lightning fast shipping, click and it's at your door in three days or less.

BANZAI MOTORWORKS: Mike McGuiness has some of the best reproduction rare Z parts around. If you want a spot on restoration, you need to see this guys website! www.zzxdatsun.com

CLASSIC TUBE: The best on pre-bent all stainless steel fuel and brake lines. Yes, they have kits for z cars! Wonderful product, well worth the money. www.classictube.com

SEATZ: The main supplier of Z Car upholstery/carpet/headliner kits to retailers. Great quality, wonderful fitment. www.seatzmfg.com

DANNY'S DATSUNS: Danny is in the Pacific Northwest and has tons of parts and many early Z parts cars to choose from. Good source for rust free body parts, drivetrain parts, etc. Danny was planning on retiring soon so check to see if he has what you need.

http://www.webspawner.com/users/dannysdatsuns/

EBAY: LOTS to find here, both new and used Z parts. Buyer beware however!

There are many other sources for parts out there on the internet however the ones above are those that I dealt with in my restoration. I did deal with a couple others that were NOT good to deal with or were blantant rip-offs, but I won't go into that here.

Another source is great forums such as this and networking with your area Z club. The parts are out there, you just have to know where to look!

Edited December 31, 2009 by zcar70