To All Zcar Enthusiasts: A Word of Advice regarding restoration work

[lm71z]

I originally posted a more detailed account of an unfortunate experience I had with a southern california "z car specialist" who claims to be an expert with z car restorations. I've decided to take the details out and just say that this person is a con artist who swaps parts from other z's and charges money for "new" parts that turn out to be used, without notifying the customer at all.

To avoid controversy, I won't mention this person's name; I'm just letting everyone know that they should check with the bureau of automotive repair before they have any work done on their z. I would hate for this to happen to anyone else.

Edited September 18, 2010 by lm71z

[madkaw]

it's a shame that things are that way, but you know it happens all the time. The projects i have done for customers has always been documented by a digital camera and e-mails. yes it takes more time, but not that much time. If there is something that needs to be replaced or extra work involved I prove it with a photo. Fortunetly I have patient customers that don't mind slow work:classic:

Of course i have a full time job that pays the bills, so i don't have to rely on a big payday working on these cars.

Hopefully people like that will get their just rewards in the end;)

[260zCaliCar]

Wow, I'm both sorry to hear about this, and simultaneously concerned. I wouldn't want to accidentally pull in there. Are you in the L.A. area? San Diego? Thanks, I'd really like to avoid this guy if at all possible.

[lm71z]

I'm in the Los Angeles area.

[mbarjbar]

This guy is not in the Inland Empire, is he??

Mike

[Arne]

Sheesh, people! The OP already said he didn't want to name names, so let's not try to play 20 questions here. He gave you the way to find out - check with the BAR before trusting your car to an unknown mechanic/shop. That's good advice for any car, not just Zs.

[mbarjbar]

Chill Arne, Socal is a big place..........

[EScanlon]

Actually Mike (mbarjar), it's you that needs to chill.

Arne is just looking out for the possibility of liability to the forum in the case the claims being made aren't factual. Proving those claims involves more than just statements being made. That is beyond the scope of this forum.

Even when BOTH sides can be brought to the discussion, it becomes very difficult to discern the truth behind the typed word. In prior cases of this sort, it has been deemed expedient to close the thread rather than expose the forum/club to protracted arguments and possible legal action(s) by one or both parties.

Brad (lm71Z) is intentionally NOT naming a specific business which evades the question of legal action by that mechanics shop against this forum. If those charges are shown to be true, and proven in a court of law, then it can be disseminated as information. Until then they can be labeled as libel, which carries legal repercussions.

If you wish to ask him via a PM and he choses to respond in kind or via an e-mail, then it is outside the scope of this forum's administrators and moderators.

Posting it here before it's proven or ascertained to be predominantly true would not be allowed, and would be dealt with accordingly.

Hopefully that clears it up for everyone.

E

[Walter Moore]

I am not an attorney. (and i don't play one on T.V.) But this guy is, and he seems to have a different opinion:

http://www.ericgoldman.org/Articles/websiteliabilityalert.htm

To quote:

'Section 230©(1) of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, says "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as a publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." To date, courts have treated this language as a nearly complete bar against liability for users’ defamatory postings. '

Still, caution is strongly advised, if for no other reason than that while the specifics of this case may well have been accurately represented, sometimes claims of this nature might be exaggerated, (or outright false...) and the legal aspect aside we shouldn't be offering a forum for people to destroy the reputation of potential suppliers without cause.

Besides, legal protections of the type listed above only help once you are in court, and by then the legal fees are already piling up even if you win. Successfully defending a lawsuit is expensive.

[26th-Z]

Yes, this conversation boils down to morals and values. The internet isn't meant for this.

I'ld like to comment on the theme of the thread and say that any restoration service / body shop / mechanic must have a very clear understanding with the owner about the quality of work. I would always recommend that an owner keep in close communication with the shop and direct the workmanship accordingly. Far too many owners just drop their car off and come back to find that the work is not what they had in mind. Happens all the time. The larger the project, the more chances of falling into disagreement. Owners should visit frequently to monitor the progress of the work. I suggest that contracts involve progress payments along with review of the work. That way, the result is far more satisfactory to both parties.

[FastWoman]

I presume you've filed a complaint with the police? If not, you should.

[IdahoKidd]

Without knowing all of the details, for example, why where the parts traded between cars (?) it isn't possible to know what has happened. IF, for example, the car brought in had parts that were beyond practical repair, they may have been swapped for something that was repairable. An e31 head that is beyond practical salvage may get swapped for a different one in the best interest of the vehicle. Communication between the mechanic and the client is important. As a contractor, I do know that there is no way to please some customers. When you can tell this going in, there is a PITA fee associated with the project. Sometimes it is hidden, sometimes it is incorporated into labor rates, but it is there. No business with 30 years experience wakes up in the morning and says, "I am going to steal the good stuff off this car and no one will ever know". They don't stay in business for 30 years. Judging from the tone of the post, there is a lot more going on. Always ask and get all the information before assessing guilt. Then punch them in the nose if necessary