What next?!

[Z train]

THe copper permatex is in a tube.And "Anti-sieze" is magical stuff.A drop the size of a pin-head will do every nut and bolt on your entire car.Every car on the property,your neighbors car.Your neighbors dog AND cat.

You'll understand this comment after you've used the stuff.

[MK1888]

And there's good reason to only use a little...it'll affect the tightening torque and even work loose. Also, it contains some hazardous stuff, so if you have a lot of nuts/bolts to do wrap a piece of plastic bag around your finger to apply it.

[doradox]

Oh, also... I remember seeing a set of stainless screws and bolts for the Z. Where would I have seen that? I'm starting to think it would be a very good idea to buy it before reassembling all this stuff!

Update: I've found zcarcreations.com, but they appear not to be in business anymore (no ebay auctions, no prices quoted). I have an email out to them.

Another update 9/25: I found www.boltdepot.com, which sells SS fastener assortments. I bought about $150 worth of metric SS screws, bolts, nuts, washers, etc. We'll see how far that goes.

Be careful when using a stainless bolt and nut combo. Galling and cold welding can sometimes occur very easily without the use of an anti-seize that is applicable for stainless. The Permatex copper, or nickle, anti-seize is specifically designed for stainless. The more common aluminum anti-seize is not.

http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/09128.pdf

Also stainless fasteners can cause galvanic corrosion when contacting aluminum parts.

http://www.marfas.com/corrosion.shtml

http://www.eckcoating.com/product.html

There is probably very little if anything to be concerned about in your application, but going in with a little info can help you make choices that ensure you are not surprised in the future.

Steve

[FastWoman]

Ztrain, I thought you meant this stuff on the gasket:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Copper_Spray-A-Gasket_Hi-Temp_Adhesive_Sealant.htm

I've known people to spray their gaskets with copper spray of some sort. I guess this is it. Apparently it improves heat transfer and fills surface irregularities. Is it worth using?

But I guess you're really talking about this:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_permatex_ultra_copper_maximum_temperature_rtv_silicone_gasket_maker.htm

Use one or the other? Both?

Thanks for the tips regarding the antisieze. I'll look for the copper variety and will use it sparingly for the SS fasteners in aluminum. I presume I should use the ordinary aluminum-based antisieze for the non-stainless hardware used to bolt the manifolds to the head?

BTW, no time to work on my car this weekend. We've been busy visiting solar homes. I'll probably get back to work on the Z tomorrow.

Thanks again, guys! Very much!

[ZCurves]

THe copper permatex is in a tube.And "Anti-sieze" is magical stuff.A drop the size of a pin-head will do every nut and bolt on your entire car.Every car on the property,your neighbors car.Your neighbors dog AND cat.

You'll understand this comment after you've used the stuff.

HA Ha Ha! That is so true! That stuff keeps on going and going....

[GreenZZZ]

Thanks for the tips regarding the antisieze. I'll look for the copper variety and will use it sparingly...

I've used VersaChem 13 and Koppercoat liberally, instead of sparingly for 25 years. Never had a bolt backoff with vibration or seize with corrosion. Works great on exhaust fasteners too. I started playing with using this in minute amounts on brake line fasteners last year so it doesn't foul the fluid.

[Z train]

Ztrain, I thought you meant this stuff on the gasket:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Copper_Spray-A-Gasket_Hi-Temp_Adhesive_Sealant.htm

I've known people to spray their gaskets with copper spray of some sort. I guess this is it. Apparently it improves heat transfer and fills surface irregularities. Is it worth using?

But I guess you're really talking about this:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_permatex_ultra_copper_maximum_temperature_rtv_silicone_gasket_maker.htm

Use one or the other? Both?

Thanks for the tips regarding the antisieze. I'll look for the copper variety and will use it sparingly for the SS fasteners in aluminum. I presume I should use the ordinary aluminum-based antisieze for the non-stainless hardware used to bolt the manifolds to the head?

BTW, no time to work on my car this weekend. We've been busy visiting solar homes. I'll probably get back to work on the Z tomorrow.

Thanks again, guys! Very much!

The stuff in the tube.And let it COMPLETELY cure before starting the car.I've used it on header flanges for years now.Good stuff.

[FastWoman]

Thanks, guys! Those will be on today's shopping list.

I haven't been able to do more work and won't for a while. Rain! Lots of it! I can't even paint because the place is dripping in humidity. I'm glad I shot some fogging oil in the intake ports after pulling the intake.

Maybe I'll work on the little parts -- throttle body, AFM, etc.

My radiator shop guy says he can extract (and possibly helicoil) my frozen/broken screws/bolts. He's starting to be my one-stop resource.

Edited September 28, 2010 by FastWoman

[FastWoman]

Well, the rain gave me a bit of a break, so I was able to do a bit more work. I removed the thermostat housing. The righthand bolt was a glob of rust. The shank jammed in the thermo housing hole, and the head very easily snapped off. The long bolt came out just fine, and I was able to pull the thermo housing. Then I could unscrew what remained of the thermo housing bolt with only my fingers! I think I must have had a slow leak there that had soaked the various manifold bolts below it over many years. (However coolant water shouldn't be corrosive, should it? Maybe it's just that those bolts get more water exposure on the front of the engine.)

Anyway I finally had better access to the frozen studs in the cyl head. With quite a bit of cycling between blow torch and freeze fracturing spray, I was able to remove all but the one that had rung off -- the very front exhaust manifold bolt. The threads were rusted away on that bolt, so there's nothing for a nut to grip.

So I thought maybe this is the time to blow a bit of money on a cheap welder, so that I could weld a nut to the stud and (hopefully) crank it out. Maybe you get what you pay for, but I spent $100 on a light-weight 50/70A stick welder and gave it a go. I find it very difficult to strike an arc with the thing. I presume it's for lack of technique, as I'm a rank beginner. Anyway I did manage to weld the nut on a few times, but my weld was not strong enough to hold up to any torque. Very frustrating!

Any tips on welding nuts?

[ZCurves]

So I thought maybe this is the time to blow a bit of money on a cheap welder, so that I could weld a nut to the stud and (hopefully) crank it out. Maybe you get what you pay for, but I spent $100 on a light-weight 50/70A stick welder and gave it a go. I find it very difficult to strike an arc with the thing. I presume it's for lack of technique, as I'm a rank beginner. Anyway I did manage to weld the nut on a few times, but my weld was not strong enough to hold up to any torque. Very frustrating!

Any tips on welding nuts?

I have run into this several times in the past. I assume that you are talking about the No. 6 Cyl. near the firewall? It really doesn't matter... What I would suggest is to use a small sharpened chisel and then use a hammer to back the bolt out. Just start tapping with the hammer and you will get the hang of it. It will take a bit of patience to develop a technique -but the bolt will begin to move. Make sure that you use plenty of WD or PB or what ever makes you happy...

How much of the stud is sticking out?? Do you have a Pic??

Good Luck!

[FastWoman]

Thanks, Andrew.

It's actually the forward-most #1 cyl exhaust stud, right underneath the thermo housing. I had already read your chisel technique and tried it. I did quite a bit of tapping, but unfortunately I ended up chiseling out a nick on the side of the stud. I even made a special chisel for the job with a very blunt edge, so as to avoid gouging the metal more than necessary. It's possible the metal is annealed, as I did use a torch to heat it. (That worked beautifully with the other studs.) Anyway, I'm afraid to apply that technique any longer. I don't want to lose too much metal.

Maybe 5/8" of the stud is sticking out (from memory). The threads are all but rusted away, but the unthreaded portion of the base is still intact. The stud has gotten lots of WD-40 and PBlaster over the past couple of weeks.

One approach I'm considering is to use the jaws of a pipe flaring tool to clamp the stud. The jaws should bite nicely.

I suppose that's tomorrow's project. Today's weather has been miserable, but the sun will come out tomorrow.

[jonathanrussell]

Have you tried vice grips, oriented so that you can hammer the handle in the stud's counter clockwise direction to remove? You have to close up the vice grips so tight that you can barely lock the handles in place. Has worked for me on occasion. Of course, you also don't want to wring off the last 5/8 of your bolt....which may mean pulling the head.

Also, be aware that the left (closest to the radiator) thermostat housing bolt threads into the cyl head timing cover area. Don't use a tap to clean up that thread or you will end up with aluminum shavings in your timing cover- not to mention a bent timing chain guide. Don't ask how I know.

You seem to be suffering from rusty bolt hell.

Edited October 5, 2010 by jonathanrussell