1971 240z

[Diseazd]

Isn't yellow a fairly rare color? I love the color. I remember back in the 70's when it first came out in late 71-72. It was a great color addition to a fleet that somewhat lacked for color choice. I didn't see many on the road and I lived in Atlanta at the time.

[Carl Beck]

Mine is a 2/71. I have seen 1/71 Zs with the 240z emblem rather than the circle side emblem. I have also seen 1/71 Zs with the circle side emblem.

Hi Randy:

Yes - Jan of 71 was the month that the change over was made between the Series I 240Z's and the Series II 240Z's.

Nissan called the Series II cars "Late Model 1971"...

During that change over - several cars seem to have been "mixtures" of parts from both Series. More than one car have been reported to have both the Vented Z's and rear decklid vents - claimed to be original - but none so far owned by their original owners... so who knows for sure..

So far the highest VIN reported for a Series I is HLS30 20438 and the lowest VIN for a Series II reported is HLS30 21443. According to Nissan Series II cars started with VIN HLS30 21000. #21443 was reported with a 02/71 production date..

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Carl Beck

[auzziez]

Hi Tony:

See: http://zhome.com/History/1970or1971.html

FWIW,

Carl B.

Thanks Carl. It all makes sense now.

[JohnnyO]

Hi John:

I would have to respectfully disagree. For $20 to $23K you can buy a true #2 Condition 71 240Z. Low mileage is nice, all stock is nice - - but the value of a 240-Z is mostly in it over-all condition.

So why is this specific car not up to true #2 Condition standards?

1. After sitting since 1976 - it is really a pig in a poke - the potential buyer has no idea of how it is going to run, nor the actual amount of time and money it will take to put it in road-worthy condition. I wrote a Post related to awakening Sleeping Beauties some time ago - and if they threw a Red Top in that car and cranked it over and over - trying to start it - without all proper and called for preventative measures having been taken... it could easily lead to a lot of expense and time to correct. At the very least it represents a lot of RISK to any potential buyer. Funds have to be reserved to cover that risk...

2. This 240Z seems to have all its original parts - - but they are not in "original" condition.

As you can see from the few pictures of the engine compartment - the metal parts that were originally Bright Yellow Cad plated - are now deteriorated and turning gray. Engine parts, carb linkages, nuts, bolts, fuel rail, air injection tube etc etc... On a #2 Condition car these would all look like new... ie bright and shinny.

3. Likewise - the original braided hoses have all faded and deteriorated... The block has obvious surface rust etc. etc. etc.

A true #1 / #2 Condition example would appear "as new" - - not as 40 year old used parts, even if slighty used.

This is a great car that "COULD" be brought up to # 2 condition - but it will take a lot more time, money and serious effort before it is close to that standard.

Who Buys 240Z's today in the $20K+ price range? Answer - Only serious Collectors. That makes it a very small market filled with very picky buyers.

In my experience - the guys that are willing to spend serious money for true #1 and #2 Condition examples - - have no interest in refreshing/restoring collectible cars themselves. They will pay for "perfection" and/or very near perfection.. they will simply pass on anything that needs a lot of detail work that takes a lot of time...

IMHO - both the very low mileage cars offered recently - are wonderful examples - but both would need a lot of work and perhaps several thousand dollars to bring them up to even current road-worthy and show ready condition. All of which done half-fast - and/or incorrectly - could reduce their value.

I doubt offers of much over $18K would be tended this year or next. Even then it would take a serious Enthusiast - with that kind of CASH on hand.... Again a pretty limited group today. Most Enthusiasts that are willing to spend $20+ on a 240Z, want to do it themselves so they know it has been done correctly... sounds like you;-)

Just my opinion...

Carl B.

I don't think anyone would argue with you about it not being a #1 or #2 car, and I would say that most, if not all, of the #1 and #2 car that are winning shows are cars that have been touched up and in all likelyhood do not have 19500 original miles (if what the seller says can be proven).

There are collectors out there that are looking for original, low mileage, collector vehicles that are a "time capsule" so to speak. This would probably be an even more limited group than the ones you mention above. Myself, well, I know that I could take a $2000 example and spend 2 years making it show ready. I am almost done with that process, but in the back of my mind I know, that although I am restoring to stock and it will look new, it is not exactly as it was 40 years ago when it rolled off the line and was put on a boat.

I would probably spend over $20K for an all original car with documented history and low miles. I find more value in that than in a car that may be lower vin but has been so thoroughly restored that all that was original has been cut away and repaired with patch panels and NOS or replated parts. At least I would know it was original. Unfortunately, I am not in the market for another collector car.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a buyer for everything out there and it is all a matter of choice.

Before I go I would like to know what would be wrong with this car selling for over 20 grand? I would think that that would just push the price of the #1 and #2 cars up a little further, something that Z collectors have been hoping for for quite some time.

Just my 2 cents I guess.

John

[Carl Beck]

Hi John:

Nothing wrong at all - - I seriously hope it does sell for $20K+.... I also agree that you never know until you try.

The only thing I can think of - that might strike some as wrong - would be an uninformed buyer making an emotional decision - suffering the illusion based on the seller description, that he is getting a "new" car. Then finding out after the fact, that he has actually bought a low mileage 40 year old car that needs lots more work and money.

On the other hand, the Yellow car has been for sale since at least March of this year - no takers at $19,500.00 and so far no takers at $25K. I was simply trying to point out to the OP why I believe the car wasn't selling in those price ranges.

The owner can certainly keep it - and hold it until the values of the cars go back up with the economy. That however may be a few years - if he really wants to sell it - perhaps $18K today is better than $20K in a year or two, or $25K in three to four years. It is in the end the seller's choice.

On the potential buyers side - they should at least be aware of the additional time and expense they are most likely to incur, and they should not expect to take that car to a National level show and expect that it would be a class winner.

On the subject of original cars - - you are correct, there is a growing interest in what many marque clubs and Classic Car Clubs are referring to as "Survivor Class" vehicles. Where true "original", unrestored Classics are Judged in a Class by themselves. For the most part that seems to be cars that are at least 40 years old, and on which at least 90% of the car is actually "un-restored original". However even in that class - "original" is judged or graded by how close to "as it left the factory" all components are. In the case of this Yellow Z - it would lose a lot of points because of the deterioration mentioned.

At the other end of the extreme - to date the best "original" S30 I've seen so far was the 78 Black Pearl with 650 m.o.l. miles. Cared for in the extreme since new - kept in an air conditioned/dehumidified environment. That was a #1 example by any judging standards. So these cars do exist - are rare in the extreme and priced accordingly.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Diseazd]

The ad says SOLD $24,500.00. I guess that shows that the right color and condition and year still amount to good money! I agree with the buyer "It is worth the price". Guy

Edited September 23, 2010 by Diseazd

[JohnnyO]

Fess up Guy, you bought it, right?

[Diseazd]

I had my wife hide the check book......that car was beautiful!!! A new cad bolt set from Eiji at Datsun Spirit.....new stickers from Mike at Banzai and some elbow grease and the car would have been top 10. I wonder if the new owner wants to part with the mud flaps? :stupid:

[Carl Beck]

I'll ask him..

Carl

[Diseazd]

He is a friend of yours? Tell him (or you) CONGRATULATIONS!

[Carl Beck]

Well do - good to see the car go to a person that will really appreicate it - and who can properly bring it back to 100%.

I'm sure the seller was happy as well -

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Diseazd]

His initials wouldn't be JF would they?