takes about 20 tries until it car starts...but rough idle

[raltz]

hello i know that there are so many "rough starts" or "doesn't start" posts here, i read most but there are so many suggestions that i don't know where to start

here's what happens: (1973 datsun 240z, manual transmission, bone stock)

i try to start the car, and i hear click, i can hear the fuel pump going, but when i go to crank it, it just clicks, so i try again and now i'll hear it cranking but not turning over, i try it again with the choke open and still nothing, i try over and over, sometimes i just get a click, other times it sounds like its so close to starting, i try different ways in starting it, in neutral, in gear, holding on the clutch, no clutch and just turning it, and same result, after about 20 tries, it finally catches and starts, the idle is low (choke is closed) and runs for a bit, then dies, i try it again with the choke open it starts up (maybe after 10 more clicks, and the almost turning over sound) then it starts, revs go up cause the choke is open then it dies, so i start it again, and finally i get it running, but after its been running for a bit i push on the gas and it dies, and then do it all over again,

its a hit or miss sometimes it runs and runs fine, i even managed to get it to start and drive it around the block, but i noticed that even while driving, when i came to a stop it sounds like its about to die, so i have to push on the gas and just go (lucky i was just going around the block, i wouldn't trust it to go far) when i push on the gas it takes a while till you can feel it speed up,

here's what i have done to my car so far:

from my previous posts, i had another problem where my fuel gauge wasn't working (still isn't but thats another problem) so i removed my tank to check everything, and put it back in place, could i have done something when putting my tank back that could have caused this? could one of the hose be connected incorrectly? as for the wiring, its all back to normal, well this problem was happening before i removed the tank.

i do have a fully charged battery in,

i tried the technique that a member posted on another post, saying to touch the 2 ends on the solenoid with a screw driver, i did that and the starter didn't crank over, i just got a big spark,

previous owner told me he just replaced the spark plugs and wires before i bought it,

im stuck, i don't know what else to check, there is gas in the car,

sorry for lengthy post, i just find the more descriptive i am to begin with the easier it might be for someone to help diagnose my problem

i just want my z to start as if it were a brand new car, and start all the time..

thank you guys

[Bruce Palmer]

Terminology -- "Cranking but not turning over"? Old guy, very confused.....

My read? Contacts in the ignition switch are carboned up making for poor conductivity of the "juice" to the starter solenoid which will likewise carbons up the contacts in the solenoid resulting in what I think you are describing. At this stage in their lives I'd guess every Z out there if they don't aleady have one, could use a solenoid put in that circuit so the wiring harnes, through the switch, doesn't have to handle all that current.

[raltz]

so are you recommending replacing the solenoid on the starter? should i just replace the whole starter altogether? i tried that screw driver test to the solenoid, and it didn't start cranking, just a big spark,

would replacing my ignition coil help? it is still the stock ignition coil

[raltz]

hello? is anyone out there to answer my question? your help is greatly appreciated..

[EScanlon]

Yes, this forum is on. However, what isn't is your description which is what Bruce was asking about.

Cranking but not turning over... kind of like standing while sitting down, it just doesn't "compute".

If it cranks, the starter is engaging and the engine is turning over. Trying to trouble shoot the starter is to take a step backwards. That's why your post is confusing, how can it be cranking but NOT turn over?

From this post and the others, you're busy attacking it from several different fronts, probably compounding the problem from any one of them. You need to be a bit more systematic and dedicated on ONE front, before going on to the next. If you mess with the electrical, then switch to the fuel, then to the starter, then back to the ... you'll never get anything aligned properly and you'll frustrate yourself, as your last post shows.

I'm not the one to answer your questions as I'm not a mechanic. You may want to take a minute and describe fully each step and not use terms that mean something else trying to simplify your description. If you can hear the starter motor running, say that, not that the car cranks, because cranking means something else as explained above.

FWIW

E

[raltz]

ok, sorry guys, i mean to say that when i go to start the car, most of the time i just hear click, and nothing, i do hear the fuel pump going, but nothing else, then i try over and over again, and then the car sounds like its about to start and then nothing. then i try again, and it does start, its a very rough idle, then dies, when i finally do get it running, i step on the gas it dies,

thanks again everyone

[Oiluj]

Sounds like you may have multiple problems. I agree with the post above. First, fix the starter issue so you can move forward to diagnose the rough idle, etc.

Start by verifing that you have current going to the solenoid when you turn the key. If that's good, then check that the starter solenoid is working properly. Many parts stores have a tester to check the condition of starters. (you have to remove the starter from the car).

[kenz240z]

I'm guessing you have several problems to deal with. First, it sounds like you may have a bad starter. As Julio said, remove the starter and take it to an auto parts store to be tested. If your car has an electric fuel pump, check the fuel filter inside. A clogged filter can cause fuel starvation problems, similar to what you have described.

[olzed]

Yep, the last two sound on the money. Once the car is running, your starter has NO bearing on how well the motor runs.

Sounds like a crook starter as well as other issues. Probably crap in the fuel lines, and filter.

[raltz]

ok, i'll start there, and keep you guys posted, thanks guys

[raltz]

just wondering, if the starter was completely shot, would it not start at all after how many tries? cause my car does eventually start, but it does take numerous attempts

[olzed]

Yes it could well do that .If the contacts in the solenoid are badly burnt, you can get intermittent turning of the starter and engine, or as you call it "cranking". Get the starter checked first, then go on to the engine problems.