Losing Faith

[cozye]

And when you replaced the distributor, has it run since ?

[FastWoman]

Well, he got at least "a" spark, but I'm betting his ignition isn't really putting out like it should. The fact that his engine tries to fire every now and then is evidence of at least an occasional spark, but I suspect it's only occasional -- or very weak. I'm not convinced the ignition system can deliver a longer series of healthy sparks. I've never shot starter fluid into an engine with working ignition and gotten anything less than a short rev.

Edited December 17, 2010 by FastWoman

[grantf]

Do Fastwomans test, it is easy and will tell you for shure that it is not the ignition. I suspect fuel delivery, could be low fuel pressure or the injectors are not operating. my 3.141592....... cents.

Do not give up sometimes these problems can be tricky to diagnose but it looks like you are on the right track, you will make that car run.

Edited December 17, 2010 by grantf

[cozye]

Yes, but I'm wondering how much starter fluid he sprayed in. Also I'm wondering about the firing order, distributor orientation, and timing, since the distributor was replaced.

And you should definitely do the spark test again as Fastwoman suggested

Edited December 17, 2010 by cozye

[Zed Head]

It's looking more and more like timing, either the distributor is off time or the plug wires are off.

Sledge, I have found that, in general, if you can line up the two lines on your distributor housing, that your timing will be close. The marks are right next to the adjustment screw/bolt. You'll know what I mean if you look down there.

It is also possible to put your distributor in 180 degrees off, although it does not seat very well. If you could get the engine to Top Dead Center and the timing mark at zero, and pull the distributor cap, the rotor should be pointing almost straight ahead. If not, you have timing issues.

[SledgehammerX]

I sprayed a good amount of starting fluid in it. I mean I didn't hold back. When I put the new dizzy in, the car had stopped running before that. I'm afraid it may be a timing issue. I just put a fresh set of plugs in again cause I fouled the last set just by trying to start it so much. Every plug had gas smell to them. I will try and get out there tonight and see what happens with that spark test.

[FastWoman]

Well, just to be clear, you should probably only spray a 1-2 sec shot of fluid in there.

But also do try sparking the coil wire against a shock tower bolt to confirm you have a good spark out of the coil. Once you confirm that, the next step would be to check firing order, timing, etc. But for right now, it's important to be systematic. Let's figure out which systems work and which ones don't. I'm still not convinced the ignition works. After all, miswiring an ignition module could kill or severely cripple it. I'll believe it works when Sledge is able to see a series of healthy sparks.

Assuming you really have spark, then move on:

When you put the new dizzy in, did you leave the spark plug wires connected to the cap, or did you remove and then replace those? If you left the wires on the cap, the same way they were when the car was running, then your firing order should be fine. You can double-check, though. It should be 153624. Do this to get your engine into rough timing and proper firing order:

(1) Bump the engine until the crank notch is at the 10 deg BTDC mark and the front two cam lobes are pointing upwards (visible through the oil filler hole). Confirm the #1 piston is TDC by looking through the #1 spark plug hole with a flashlight. You should see the top of the piston right there. Open the distributor cap. The rotor should be pointing forward (towards the radiator) and a bit to the side. If all this checks...

(2) Remove the rotor, and note the alignment of the protrusions on the magnetic spur. One of them should align with the bump on the pick-up coil. If not, turn the distributor and make it so. (Note: This is only approximate.) Most likely, this will be in the middle of the adjustment range, as Zed Head suggested.

(3) Make certain the #1 wire is on the post where the rotor is pointing. Then make certain the other wires are in the correct order as follows:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/mwh5150/Firing-order.jpg

(4) Put everything back together.

That should get you close enough to start the engine off of starter fluid, provided you really have a working ignition.

If you still can't get a rev out of starter fluid, then confirm spark at each of the cylinders to rule out any ignition shorts or bad wires. The easiest way is to attach each wire to a spare spark plug that you set atop the valve cover, and crank the engine. You should see a spark between the electrodes.

If you have spark and STILL can't get your engine to fire off of starter fluid, you have much more major stuff going on. I can't imagine that would be the case.

That should keep you busy for a while! Keep at it systematically, and you'll find the problem.

Edited December 17, 2010 by FastWoman

[SledgehammerX]

Ok couldn't get out there tonight, I will take your advice FastWoman and try and very timing tomm evening after work. I'm sure the firing order part is correct though but I'm a bit worried it may not actually be timed. I'll give it a shot tomm! Thanks! I'll let you know where I stand tomm night

[Gary in NJ]

I'm a simple man, so I use a simple test for spark:

1. Remove the plugs from the head;

2. Insert the plugs into the ignition wires

3. Rest the plugs against the head or block (don't hold them, let gravity hold 'em)

4. Have someone crank the engine while you watch the plugs for sparks

Works for lawnmowers, motorcycles and yes, even cars.

[cozye]

Yeah, don't get too discouraged. I'm wondering if you didn't have a simple problem at first, like the ignition module or something. Then in the process of replacing stuff, maybe you got the distributor in backwards, I believe you said you had the coil wired wrong, so you might have created additional problems when attempting to fix the first problem. That would make it more difficult to troubleshoot and might mislead you because you think "i've already replaced that" etc..

Just get back to basics. check for good spark. Then go to timing. I'd check for TDC on #1, and make sure rotor is pointing to plug #1. Check firing order. Then check and set rough timing as suggested above.

Don't foul out a new set of plugs just cranking on it forever. Do the basic tests, then go through and make sure the orientation of everything is correct. Bottom line is if you have spark, and you've got fuel, and the distributor orientation/firing order is correct, it will at least stumble and fire some. Might not idle, but it will turn over.

[SledgehammerX]

Ok Well, I got the car running. It's kind of fumbly, but she idles. However, you press the gas, it instantly dies. Any ideas?

[ChrisZ]

Carb the bastard, a nice pair of SU's and your problem is solved.

Chris